Lucy Letby Guilty
Discussion
OutInTheShed said:
IJWS15 said:
Surely if it wasn’t her but was institutional incompetence or similar the deaths would have continued.
Or did the institution suddenly fix all the issues they were previously unable to fix the day she was arrested?
So have no babies died there since?Or did the institution suddenly fix all the issues they were previously unable to fix the day she was arrested?
It's a neonatal unit, full of premature babies on the edge of viability.
A high percentage of them don't survive.
So the unit now doesn’t look after babies as sick as when Letby worked there (for context, one of the children mentioned in the trial was born at just over one pound in weight) and does so with considerably more professional staff (including more doctors and consultants).
Flumpo said:
Durzel said:
Without making any kind of commentary on this case specifically, I would not be at all surprised to hear about pretty much anyone who are working with babies in neonatal units slowly losing their minds when faced with them dying despite their best efforts, etc, and particularly after mistakes caused by themselves or others.
People dealing with that stuff, first responders too, basically have to have a constitution that defies logic. They're the strongest people in the world.
In that context alone I would probably give Letby a little more latitude in terms of whatever notes she wrote (I haven't read them) than e.g. an office worker, writing similar things. That's not to say that there should not have been an intervention to identify that she was troubled and compromised by events, but I feel like the NHS is so on its knees that it is probably the case right now that there are tens or maybe even hundreds of people who are not in a mentally fit state to be working there that are doing so through necessity or because no one is actually doing safeguarding, or there just isn't the resource to do so.
The notes were insignificant to the case. It was less than a couple of minutes of the case from one of the longest trials in Uk history. People dealing with that stuff, first responders too, basically have to have a constitution that defies logic. They're the strongest people in the world.
In that context alone I would probably give Letby a little more latitude in terms of whatever notes she wrote (I haven't read them) than e.g. an office worker, writing similar things. That's not to say that there should not have been an intervention to identify that she was troubled and compromised by events, but I feel like the NHS is so on its knees that it is probably the case right now that there are tens or maybe even hundreds of people who are not in a mentally fit state to be working there that are doing so through necessity or because no one is actually doing safeguarding, or there just isn't the resource to do so.
It got significant press coverage as it generated clicks and advertising revenue from titillation from the public. The significance from that evidence was actually that she had written that on confidential documents that should never have left the hospital, but she had stashed under her bed.
PRO5T said:
Having listened to the podcast throughout her trial, that article puts down in writing everything I thought about her.
If anyone has ever had the bad luck to come up against an institute that try’s to save itself by throwing individuals under the bus, this case will look terrifyingly familiar. Never underestimate a trusts ability to completely destroy peoples lives for “the greater good” (or to keep the gravy train going).
This thread will die off again though, there’ll be a few new investigations so the reporting of anything that will be considered “pre judicial” will be banned and she’ll be left in prison.
She has one chance left of appeal and going off her defences record I’ll be amazed if they can come up with either any new evidence that wasn’t there before or accept she didn’t have a fair defence.
She was already clearly in a very bad place before she even went to trial and what she is like now no one knows.
I have every sympathy for the families of those poor children and everything they have been dragged through time and time again. I also have sympathy for Letby’s parents and everything they have gone and continue to go through.
The hospital at the centre of it all doesn’t look to have improved much despite the downgrading of its neonatal care unit and increased staffing.
No winners in this one, no matter how it plays out over the next few years.
Well putIf anyone has ever had the bad luck to come up against an institute that try’s to save itself by throwing individuals under the bus, this case will look terrifyingly familiar. Never underestimate a trusts ability to completely destroy peoples lives for “the greater good” (or to keep the gravy train going).
This thread will die off again though, there’ll be a few new investigations so the reporting of anything that will be considered “pre judicial” will be banned and she’ll be left in prison.
She has one chance left of appeal and going off her defences record I’ll be amazed if they can come up with either any new evidence that wasn’t there before or accept she didn’t have a fair defence.
She was already clearly in a very bad place before she even went to trial and what she is like now no one knows.
I have every sympathy for the families of those poor children and everything they have been dragged through time and time again. I also have sympathy for Letby’s parents and everything they have gone and continue to go through.
The hospital at the centre of it all doesn’t look to have improved much despite the downgrading of its neonatal care unit and increased staffing.
No winners in this one, no matter how it plays out over the next few years.
PRO5T said:
If anyone has ever had the bad luck to come up against an institute that try’s to save itself by throwing individuals under the bus, this case will look terrifyingly familiar. Never underestimate a trusts ability to completely destroy peoples lives for “the greater good” (or to keep the gravy train going)
That's the lovely thing about the Post Office scandal - the mighty did (or are about to) fall.scrw. said:
David Davis MP has today used parliamentary privilege to ask why UK readers were barred from viewing this article. He said that the block on the story seemed “in defiance of open justice”.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/m...
Cold said:
scrw. said:
David Davis MP has today used parliamentary privilege to ask why UK readers were barred from viewing this article. He said that the block on the story seemed “in defiance of open justice”.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/m...
The New Yorker published a 13,000-word piece about her case on Monday but UK readers are blocked from accessing it online. Under English law, British media are restricted in their reporting owing to Letby’s upcoming retrial.
OutInTheShed said:
So have no babies died there since?
It's a neonatal unit, full of premature babies on the edge of viability.
A high percentage of them don't survive.
Just for a little accuracy to contradict your slightly morbid doom mongering point of view which is almost entirely baseless and incorrectIt's a neonatal unit, full of premature babies on the edge of viability.
A high percentage of them don't survive.
Neonatal is any child born before 37 weeks gestation. They are not all on the edge of viability. In UK in 2020
699,000 births
approx 90,000 admitted to a neonatal unit
1051 neonatal deaths
so 1.1% mortality in neonatal population
https://www.npeu.ox.ac.uk/assets/downloads/mbrrace...
https://www.bliss.org.uk/research-campaigns/neonat...
skwdenyer said:
Simpo Two said:
That's the lovely thing about the Post Office scandal - the mighty did (or are about to) fall.
That’s a mighty fine dose of idealistic optimism you’ve got there 
It wasn't a party.
It might have been a party but I wasn't there.
If I was there, I didn't know it was a party.
carreauchompeur said:
Interesting, correlation not being causation and all.
Read something which staggered me the other day, in 2022-23 1.1 billion was paid out in medical negligence claims regarding maternity and neonatal care, around a third of that area’s total expenditure.
FFS, that's over half the total compensation paid out. Solely on that basis something is badly amiss in NHS management of maternity care.Read something which staggered me the other day, in 2022-23 1.1 billion was paid out in medical negligence claims regarding maternity and neonatal care, around a third of that area’s total expenditure.
carreauchompeur said:
Interesting, correlation not being causation and all.
Read something which staggered me the other day, in 2022-23 1.1 billion was paid out in medical negligence claims regarding maternity and neonatal care, around a third of that area’s total expenditure.
The compensation culture is one of the factors destroying the economy and should be reined in. It means that money paid out to appease bereaved relatives - who admit 'money will never bring them back' - isn't there to save other people.Read something which staggered me the other day, in 2022-23 1.1 billion was paid out in medical negligence claims regarding maternity and neonatal care, around a third of that area’s total expenditure.
pavarotti1980 said:
OutInTheShed said:
So have no babies died there since?
It's a neonatal unit, full of premature babies on the edge of viability.
A high percentage of them don't survive.
Just for a little accuracy to contradict your slightly morbid doom mongering point of view which is almost entirely baseless and incorrectIt's a neonatal unit, full of premature babies on the edge of viability.
A high percentage of them don't survive.
Neonatal is any child born before 37 weeks gestation. They are not all on the edge of viability. In UK in 2020
699,000 births
approx 90,000 admitted to a neonatal unit
1051 neonatal deaths
so 1.1% mortality in neonatal population
https://www.npeu.ox.ac.uk/assets/downloads/mbrrace...
https://www.bliss.org.uk/research-campaigns/neonat...
Was I wrong in that?
Grumbler said:
You’re forgetting mistakes in neo-natal and maternity care often result in life-changing injuries requiring lifelong care. That’s expensive.
I don't doubt it; all the more reason to take a utilitarian attitude and direct as much funding at it to reduce adverse outcomes as it justifies.OutInTheShed said:
I was under the impression the unit in question was often working at the more extreme end of 'premature', where mortality is understandably higher.
Was I wrong in that?
Yes wrong, they were a level 2 unit (now leve 1) with level 1 being the least complex level of care and level 4 being the most complex in specialist centres. Was I wrong in that?
Basically they were a district general with a SCBU
pavarotti1980 said:
OutInTheShed said:
I was under the impression the unit in question was often working at the more extreme end of 'premature', where mortality is understandably higher.
Was I wrong in that?
Yes wrong, they were a level 2 unit (now leve 1) with level 1 being the least complex level of care and level 4 being the most complex in specialist centres. Was I wrong in that?
Basically they were a district general with a SCBU
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