Mr Bates vs The Post Office
Discussion
Stussy said:
This one today is an utter waste of time!
I was head of IT, but had nothing to do with IT.
Just how stupid do they think everyone is?!
I do know 1 or 2 CIOs who are not very IT savvy but superb at dealing with the business stakeholders, juggling budgets and getting the right mix of suppliers to meet the business goals. I was head of IT, but had nothing to do with IT.
Just how stupid do they think everyone is?!
Fortunately they surround themselves with some very smart technical people who can both advise and coach the CIO. And they ask smart questions and listen.
Obviously not the case here.
vaud said:
Stussy said:
This one today is an utter waste of time!
I was head of IT, but had nothing to do with IT.
Just how stupid do they think everyone is?!
I do know 1 or 2 CIOs who are not very IT savvy but superb at dealing with the business stakeholders, juggling budgets and getting the right mix of suppliers to meet the business goals. I was head of IT, but had nothing to do with IT.
Just how stupid do they think everyone is?!
Fortunately they surround themselves with some very smart technical people who can both advise and coach the CIO. And they ask smart questions and listen.
Obviously not the case here.
Maxdecel said:
She obviously has an aversion to explaining her actions .....she blocked Paula Vennells’ phone number after the ex-chief executive sought her help to “avoid an independent inquiry”.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/horizon-gove...
Just read an article about that online. Has she mentioned that? I've missed bits this morning!https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/horizon-gove...
Maxdecel said:
Short Grain said:
Just read an article about that online. Has she mentioned that? I've missed bits this morning!
Assume so, that link is only an hour old. I've missed parts too.
She's really laying on the memory gap. She's really struggling to convince me she's not a 'kin liar!
Stussy said:
But according to her CV she is fully educated regarding IT, and IIRC a programmer too
she was able to fully understand and remember how the theoretical changing of log data on the EMC san could be achieved if enough people colluded and re-signed the md5 hashes etc(deloite report) - rather than the "i don't recall / it's too technical blah blah"
Ooh, the PV calls just got mentioned and the blocking of PV! Still can't recall specifics, even though she made notes!
Tears, snuffling, apologies, I really don't know, I'm so sorry!
ffs
Adjourned until to morrow morning. Martin Edwards is listed on my schedule as appearing today as well, was that wrong or has he postponed / cried off appearing?
Tears, snuffling, apologies, I really don't know, I'm so sorry!
ffs
Adjourned until to morrow morning. Martin Edwards is listed on my schedule as appearing today as well, was that wrong or has he postponed / cried off appearing?
Edited by Short Grain on Thursday 16th May 15:27
Entirely disingenuous today, one thing that did stand out for me was her hand written notes of the PV call looked very very similar to some "unattributed" notes that were used in evidence the other day. It was the bullet point style that really jumped off the page, the double lines and arrow
I'm really struggling to read any more of this thread. Not because of the posters, they have been excellent, but because you can see how this is going to play out.
The inquiry will come to a close, with the remaining 'witnesses' following the usual pattern of not being able to recall anything at all, beyond what they had for breakfast that morning.
Sir Wyn will issue a damning report, outlining massive failings in the PO management structure, operating procedures and obstructive/uncooperative nature of those called to testify.
However, it will count for nothing.
Those people detailed in the reports findings, will simply release statements saying 'we don't acknowledge Sir Wyn's findings' (the modern day equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going la-la-la-la-la)
The people detailed in the report will move on to other lucrative positions, high up in other companies, where they will behave in exactly the same self-centered and entitled fashion that they did at the PO.
No one will face any kind of prosecution, or even be held accountable for their actions.
The government of the day (be it Labour or Tory) will drag its heels on implementing any meaningful change, that would go towards redressing the huge miscarriage's of justice faced by the sub-postmasters, and will hope that it all fades from the public consciousness.
The inquiry will come to a close, with the remaining 'witnesses' following the usual pattern of not being able to recall anything at all, beyond what they had for breakfast that morning.
Sir Wyn will issue a damning report, outlining massive failings in the PO management structure, operating procedures and obstructive/uncooperative nature of those called to testify.
However, it will count for nothing.
Those people detailed in the reports findings, will simply release statements saying 'we don't acknowledge Sir Wyn's findings' (the modern day equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going la-la-la-la-la)
The people detailed in the report will move on to other lucrative positions, high up in other companies, where they will behave in exactly the same self-centered and entitled fashion that they did at the PO.
No one will face any kind of prosecution, or even be held accountable for their actions.
The government of the day (be it Labour or Tory) will drag its heels on implementing any meaningful change, that would go towards redressing the huge miscarriage's of justice faced by the sub-postmasters, and will hope that it all fades from the public consciousness.
rwindmill said:
I'm really struggling to read any more of this thread. Not because of the posters, they have been excellent, but because you can see how this is going to play out.
The inquiry will come to a close, with the remaining 'witnesses' following the usual pattern of not being able to recall anything at all, beyond what they had for breakfast that morning.
Sir Wyn will issue a damning report, outlining massive failings in the PO management structure, operating procedures and obstructive/uncooperative nature of those called to testify.
However, it will count for nothing.
Those people detailed in the reports findings, will simply release statements saying 'we don't acknowledge Sir Wyn's findings' (the modern day equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going la-la-la-la-la)
The people detailed in the report will move on to other lucrative positions, high up in other companies, where they will behave in exactly the same self-centered and entitled fashion that they did at the PO.
No one will face any kind of prosecution, or even be held accountable for their actions.
The government of the day (be it Labour or Tory) will drag its heels on implementing any meaningful change, that would go towards redressing the huge miscarriage's of justice faced by the sub-postmasters, and will hope that it all fades from the public consciousness.
I tend to agree but it has / will put a lot of previously undisclosed info into the public domain and I don't think Mr Bates et al will have much trouble funding private prosecutions on the worst offenders..especially those that may have lied to the Courts and or witheld info that should have been disclosed.The inquiry will come to a close, with the remaining 'witnesses' following the usual pattern of not being able to recall anything at all, beyond what they had for breakfast that morning.
Sir Wyn will issue a damning report, outlining massive failings in the PO management structure, operating procedures and obstructive/uncooperative nature of those called to testify.
However, it will count for nothing.
Those people detailed in the reports findings, will simply release statements saying 'we don't acknowledge Sir Wyn's findings' (the modern day equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going la-la-la-la-la)
The people detailed in the report will move on to other lucrative positions, high up in other companies, where they will behave in exactly the same self-centered and entitled fashion that they did at the PO.
No one will face any kind of prosecution, or even be held accountable for their actions.
The government of the day (be it Labour or Tory) will drag its heels on implementing any meaningful change, that would go towards redressing the huge miscarriage's of justice faced by the sub-postmasters, and will hope that it all fades from the public consciousness.
simon_harris said:
Entirely disingenuous today, one thing that did stand out for me was her hand written notes of the PV call looked very very similar to some "unattributed" notes that were used in evidence the other day. It was the bullet point style that really jumped off the page, the double lines and arrow
Yes, saw notes like that but thought that was last week with one or other of the barristers, might even have been Jarnail Singh, the former RM and PO solicitor. Clear bullet points from her notes, from someone she subsequently blocked because she felt uncomfortable, but she can no longer remember specifics!
LimmerickLad said:
rwindmill said:
I'm really struggling to read any more of this thread. Not because of the posters, they have been excellent, but because you can see how this is going to play out.
The inquiry will come to a close, with the remaining 'witnesses' following the usual pattern of not being able to recall anything at all, beyond what they had for breakfast that morning.
Sir Wyn will issue a damning report, outlining massive failings in the PO management structure, operating procedures and obstructive/uncooperative nature of those called to testify.
However, it will count for nothing.
Those people detailed in the reports findings, will simply release statements saying 'we don't acknowledge Sir Wyn's findings' (the modern day equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going la-la-la-la-la)
The people detailed in the report will move on to other lucrative positions, high up in other companies, where they will behave in exactly the same self-centered and entitled fashion that they did at the PO.
No one will face any kind of prosecution, or even be held accountable for their actions.
The government of the day (be it Labour or Tory) will drag its heels on implementing any meaningful change, that would go towards redressing the huge miscarriage's of justice faced by the sub-postmasters, and will hope that it all fades from the public consciousness.
I tend to agree but it has / will put a lot of previously undisclosed info into the public domain and I don't think Mr Bates et al will have much trouble funding private prosecutions on the worst offenders..especially those that may have lied to the Courts and or witheld info that should have been disclosed.The inquiry will come to a close, with the remaining 'witnesses' following the usual pattern of not being able to recall anything at all, beyond what they had for breakfast that morning.
Sir Wyn will issue a damning report, outlining massive failings in the PO management structure, operating procedures and obstructive/uncooperative nature of those called to testify.
However, it will count for nothing.
Those people detailed in the reports findings, will simply release statements saying 'we don't acknowledge Sir Wyn's findings' (the modern day equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going la-la-la-la-la)
The people detailed in the report will move on to other lucrative positions, high up in other companies, where they will behave in exactly the same self-centered and entitled fashion that they did at the PO.
No one will face any kind of prosecution, or even be held accountable for their actions.
The government of the day (be it Labour or Tory) will drag its heels on implementing any meaningful change, that would go towards redressing the huge miscarriage's of justice faced by the sub-postmasters, and will hope that it all fades from the public consciousness.
LimmerickLad said:
I tend to agree but it has / will put a lot of previously undisclosed info into the public domain and I don't think Mr Bates et al will have much trouble funding private prosecutions on the worst offenders..especially those that may have lied to the Courts and or witheld info that should have been disclosed.
As I think I mentioned earlier, he could even crowdfund it and probably contribute a large part to the costs. This has generated a hell of a lot of interest and people are invested in seeing a positive outcome for the people wrongly prosecuted! I'd certainly sling a few quid their way! Must admit, I'm a bit concerned I might damage my tv by throwing something at one of the lying b
ds faces at some point! And Breath!
Edited by Short Grain on Thursday 16th May 16:08
Short Grain said:
LimmerickLad said:
I tend to agree but it has / will put a lot of previously undisclosed info into the public domain and I don't think Mr Bates et al will have much trouble funding private prosecutions on the worst offenders..especially those that may have lied to the Courts and or witheld info that should have been disclosed.
As I think I mentioned earlier, he could even crowdfund it and probably contribute a large part to the costs. This has generated a hell of a lot of interest and people are invested in seeing a positive outcome for the people wrongly prosecuted! I'd certainly sling a few quid their way! I was at one of the Nick Wallis talks recently, and during the questions afterwards, the subject of Alan Bates potentially bringing private prosecutions was raised.
Nick's response was that whilst it may be a possibility, and the public would no doubt raise large sums to fund it, the real issue here is that with making the threat of private prosecutions, Mr Bates has effectively "lit a bonfire under the Crown Prosecution Service". If the CPS don't take action following the enquiry, then they are going to look extremely bad/incompetent, particularly if following their inaction, the threatened private prosecutions do go ahead.
So as I understood it, Nick thinks it very likely the CPS will bring about several prosecutions.
rwindmill said:
The government of the day (be it Labour or Tory) will drag its heels on implementing any meaningful change, that would go towards redressing the huge miscarriage's of justice faced by the sub-postmasters, and will hope that it all fades from the public consciousness.
I take a contrary view, I think whichever govt are in power will call for a royal commission into the fundamental future of the post office... which will show intent while also kicking the can down the street for 3-4 years.In parallel the CPS will act.
vaud said:
rwindmill said:
The government of the day (be it Labour or Tory) will drag its heels on implementing any meaningful change, that would go towards redressing the huge miscarriage's of justice faced by the sub-postmasters, and will hope that it all fades from the public consciousness.
I take a contrary view, I think whichever govt are in power will call for a royal commission into the fundamental future of the post office... which will show intent while also kicking the can down the street for 3-4 years.In parallel the CPS will act.
Wonder if the PO in England will have it's powers of prosecution removed?
Short Grain said:
Scotland have just removed the Post Offices status as a 'specialist reporting agency to Scotland’s prosecutors' meaning they will no longer be able to investigate and report criminal allegations directly to the Crown, after the Horizon scandal showed it was “not fit” to hold that status, and it would instead have to report allegations of crimes to the police!
Wonder if the PO in England will have it's powers of prosecution removed?
They have already said they won't use those powers in the future. Wonder if the PO in England will have it's powers of prosecution removed?
IIRC it needs an act of parliament to formally remove them. IANAL.
Gassing Station | TV, Film, Video Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff