Scottish Politics / Independence - Vol 12

[Klippie]

hidetheelephants said:

I'm looking forward to Fergusons being used to help with Scotland's housing crisis, there's room there for a few blocks of flats and they'll have a nice view.

There's another useless place, this one's in Edinburgh but once flattened it could be used to build lots of afforable houses or flats, the problem is Holyrood is stood there just now...it needs removed from the face of the earth that place, as for its inhabitants there is a dole que ready and waiting.

[jshell]

The Greens expell 13 of their members for believing in biological sex. Have they become a parody?

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24325930.scottis...

Edited by jshell on Friday 17th May 12:20

[biggles330d]

Roderick Spode said:

Taffer said:

NRS said:

We're saved! The SNP are going to perhaps sort out some orders for Ferguson Marine!

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24323424.fergu...

Prelude for giving them another cash injection and the small ferries contract without competitive tender, despite no improvement to the yard's productivity or quality ,or any guarantee that all the f**kups with the Glens won't be repeated again.

An incredible reward for laughable failure. This yard wouldn't survive for a week in a commercial competitive environment - who on earth would give them work? I appreciate the scope for the Glens has changed repeatedly over the years, even when the Sannox was in build and required significant alterations, but seriously. The whole thing will be a textbook example in years to come of how not to specify and build floating vessels. Meanwhile, the Turkish yards are churning them out at an almost unbelievable rate, built right and ready for service.

Would that be TS paying for and CMAL specifying the vessels with Calmac input on spec. I'd fully expect the union to be saying "its no the workers" but under the same procurement and funding arrangement one yard has/is delivering well, the other... It can't all be hopeless management at Fergusons. I mean, they've had how many bosses now. Nobody is that unlucky in recruitment.

[Roderick Spode]

biggles330d said:

Nobody is that unlucky in recruitment.

Have you seen the elected representatives of the SNP and Scottish Greens? Lunatics and halfwits every one of them.

[munroman]

Roderick Spode said:

biggles330d said:

Nobody is that unlucky in recruitment.

Have you seen the elected representatives of the SNP and Scottish Greens? Lunatics and halfwits every one of them.

I think you have grossly insulted Lunatics and Halfwits!

No mention of 'Creepy Perverts with an unhealthy interest in small Children?

[dukeboy749r]

jshell said:

The Greens expell 13 of their members for believing in biological sex. Have they become a parody?

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24325930.scottis...

Edited by jshell on Friday 17th May 12:20

Good grief!

I am amazed some folk ever get any air time.

There demise cannot come quick enough, as a 'political force'.

[Taffer]

biggles330d said:

Would that be TS paying for and CMAL specifying the vessels with Calmac input on spec. I'd fully expect the union to be saying "its no the workers" but under the same procurement and funding arrangement one yard has/is delivering well, the other... It can't all be hopeless management at Fergusons. I mean, they've had how many bosses now. Nobody is that unlucky in recruitment.

Well, that's it; despite being a bloated/inefficient procurement system, generally the same folk at CMAL got previous vessels out without major issues - the only factor that's changed is the yard.....

The quality at all levels, workers to management, is poor (with exceptions). Work is being done badly, but is then getting checked and signed off up the chain. Meanwhile, management are pressing ahead to get quick jobs done like putting outside seating on and painting the car deck instead of sorting the engineering side, just so they can fool everyone with another LinkedIn post.

ScotGov are damned if they do (give funding/work to a crap yard they just happen to own) or don't (negative PR/job losses if the yard folds). Entirely a problem they created for themselves though.....

[Leithen]

[irc]

sturgeon has given a speech lamenting the decline in standards since she left office.

"the Queen of Nats claimed that politics has changed since she resigned from the top job. Now, she claims, controversial policies ‘descend into the most vicious, toxic rammy, with bad faith arguments all over the place’. "

And boasts about getting the MUP into law. That worked well. Since MUP was introduced in 2018, alcohol mortality figures have risen from 1,136 a year to 1,276 in 2022.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/sturgeon-lamen...

At least we have baby boxes.

[hidetheelephants]

I almost feel sorry for the workers, the yard being kept on life support by a zombie govt that we're stuck with until 2026, they'd be a lot better off getting their cards now while the economy is ok and there's going to be jobs on offer at Ardersier, who knows what the economy will be like in 2 years when Grangemouth is shut and the value chain from that has started thinning out and creating more redundancies and further contraction in the north sea.

[alangla]

irc said:

sturgeon has given a speech lamenting the decline in standards since she left office.

"the Queen of Nats claimed that politics has changed since she resigned from the top job. Now, she claims, controversial policies ‘descend into the most vicious, toxic rammy, with bad faith arguments all over the place’. "

And boasts about getting the MUP into law. That worked well. Since MUP was introduced in 2018, alcohol mortality figures have risen from 1,136 a year to 1,276 in 2022.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/sturgeon-lamen...

At least we have baby boxes.

The Scotsman has an interesting opinion piece on what I assume is the same speech https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/n...

Also a news article https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/nicola-stur...

I’m not sure if it’s a total lack of self awareness or, as the writer of the first article puts it “brass neck”, I suspect the latter, around her own considerable contribution to the toxicity of political discourse in Scotland.

[Roderick Spode]

alangla said:

irc said:

sturgeon has given a speech lamenting the decline in standards since she left office.

"the Queen of Nats claimed that politics has changed since she resigned from the top job. Now, she claims, controversial policies ‘descend into the most vicious, toxic rammy, with bad faith arguments all over the place’. "

And boasts about getting the MUP into law. That worked well. Since MUP was introduced in 2018, alcohol mortality figures have risen from 1,136 a year to 1,276 in 2022.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/sturgeon-lamen...

At least we have baby boxes.

The Scotsman has an interesting opinion piece on what I assume is the same speech https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/n...

Also a news article https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/nicola-stur...

I’m not sure if it’s a total lack of self awareness or, as the writer of the first article puts it “brass neck”, I suspect the latter, around her own considerable contribution to the toxicity of political discourse in Scotland.

I'm not even sure if it is genuine brass neckedness - Sturgeon is a textbook example of a narcissistic sociopath, entirely lacking in warmth, empathy, or self-awareness. Her portrayal of herself as a dispassionate observer completely outside of the poisonous and toxic atmosphere she helped create, is a classic gaslighting and diversionary tactic of the chronic narcissist. I've known one or two in my time, and it's genuinely breathtaking to watch them entirely detach themselves from reality and speak passionately from a position of blatant disinformation as if it were long-standing accepted fact, and expect others to affirm their delusions.

[Siko]

Roderick Spode said:

I'm not even sure if it is genuine brass neckedness - Sturgeon is a textbook example of a narcissistic sociopath, entirely lacking in warmth, empathy, or self-awareness. Her portrayal of herself as a dispassionate observer completely outside of the poisonous and toxic atmosphere she helped create, is a classic gaslighting and diversionary tactic of the chronic narcissist. I've known one or two in my time, and it's genuinely breathtaking to watch them entirely detach themselves from reality and speak passionately from a position of blatant disinformation as if it were long-standing accepted fact, and expect others to affirm their delusions.

That is the best description of her I have ever read.

[hidetheelephants]

I'd have thought it was obligatory for the fervent yessers, suspension of all objective reality being the only way to make the inevitable economic disaster of independence disappear along with the unpleasantness and life-limiting consequence that would follow.

[Taffer]

hidetheelephants said:

I almost feel sorry for the workers, the yard being kept on life support by a zombie govt that we're stuck with until 2026.

Almost, indeed - the old boys will stay on until they get a payoff (understandable), the apprentices and younger ones could easily move to BAE Systems if they are indeed skilled workers, as it's going gangbusters at the moment with Royal Navy orders. The rest (a lot Romanian), will seek work elsewhere in Europe.

At the moment they've got several workers pushing dirt about with brooms on the vessels (it never seems to be picked up), but no one wants to do the sensible thing and pay them off or stand them down on reduced pay.

[General Price]

irc said:

sturgeon has given a speech lamenting the decline in standards since she left office.

"the Queen of Nats claimed that politics has changed since she resigned from the top job. Now, she claims, controversial policies ‘descend into the most vicious, toxic rammy, with bad faith arguments all over the place’. "

And boasts about getting the MUP into law. That worked well. Since MUP was introduced in 2018, alcohol mortality figures have risen from 1,136 a year to 1,276 in 2022.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/sturgeon-lamen...

At least we have baby boxes.

Come on irc,we have already been told if it wasn't for mup the death toll would have been much higher.

Even though many more people died than before mup,if it hadn't been in place many more would have died therefore,its a win.

[irc]

Taffer said:

hidetheelephants said:

I almost feel sorry for the workers, the yard being kept on life support by a zombie govt that we're stuck with until 2026.

Almost, indeed - the old boys will stay on until they get a payoff (understandable), the apprentices and younger ones could easily move to BAE Systems if they are indeed skilled workers, as it's going gangbusters at the moment with Royal Navy orders. The rest (a lot Romanian), will seek work elsewhere in Europe.

At the moment they've got several workers pushing dirt about with brooms on the vessels (it never seems to be picked up), but no one wants to do the sensible thing and pay them off or stand them down on reduced pay.

Am I the only person who wonders where Taffer gets all the gen about the inner workings of Fergusons. A mole within I presume?

Romanians? Surely what we need is a few Turkish shipbuilders in the yard to teach ours how to build ships?

[ninepoint2]

Siko said:

Roderick Spode said:

I'm not even sure if it is genuine brass neckedness - Sturgeon is a textbook example of a narcissistic sociopath, entirely lacking in warmth, empathy, or self-awareness. Her portrayal of herself as a dispassionate observer completely outside of the poisonous and toxic atmosphere she helped create, is a classic gaslighting and diversionary tactic of the chronic narcissist. I've known one or two in my time, and it's genuinely breathtaking to watch them entirely detach themselves from reality and speak passionately from a position of blatant disinformation as if it were long-standing accepted fact, and expect others to affirm their delusions.

That is the best description of her I have ever read.

+1

[shtu]

Taffer said:

hidetheelephants said:

I almost feel sorry for the workers, the yard being kept on life support by a zombie govt that we're stuck with until 2026.

Almost, indeed - the old boys will stay on until they get a payoff (understandable), the apprentices and younger ones could easily move to BAE Systems if they are indeed skilled workers, as it's going gangbusters at the moment with Royal Navy orders. The rest (a lot Romanian), will seek work elsewhere in Europe.

At the moment they've got several workers pushing dirt about with brooms on the vessels (it never seems to be picked up), but no one wants to do the sensible thing and pay them off or stand them down on reduced pay.

I've often said the correct approach to the Ferguson's problem would have been

"Sorry lads, the yard's closing. Here's your wheelbarrow full of cash."

Each and every one of the staff could have been given a truly monumental payoff, we could have bought Turkish-built ships, and the country would still have spent less than the current disaster.

[Leithen]

I'm afraid we've some bad news. You no longer qualify for any benefits.

fk.

It's ok, we've arranged for you to have a job at Ferguson Marine.

WooHoo!