UK asylum seekers expected to be flown to Rwanda

[Rusty Old-Banger]

bhstewie said:

I thought the frothers would be a lot happier now someone had gone to Rwanda no?

The frothing seems to me to be coming from those against the plan. They are certainly the most vocal.

Anyway. As the father of a small child (well, I suppose all 4 of mine were small at some point!) I find that story about the guy who felt he couldn't protect his child horribly painful to read and (try to) empathise with. I can't imagine the pain.

[crankedup5]

z4RRSchris said:

crankedup5 said:

z4RRSchris said:

nothing, its posturing. Uk Gov has an election to fight

So the Isle of Ireland Prime Minister is just shouting at the clouds?Why is U.K. Government responding to the shouting saying that the U.K. will not be accepting illegal migrants being returned from Isle of Ireland ? The GE hasnt even been called yet.

im saying what your saying.

uk wont accept them, its too politically valuable for Sunak to his core voters

So the Irish PM is just being a windbag.

[CivicDuties]

crankedup5 said:

z4RRSchris said:

crankedup5 said:

z4RRSchris said:

nothing, its posturing. Uk Gov has an election to fight

So the Isle of Ireland Prime Minister is just shouting at the clouds?Why is U.K. Government responding to the shouting saying that the U.K. will not be accepting illegal migrants being returned from Isle of Ireland ? The GE hasnt even been called yet.

im saying what your saying.

uk wont accept them, its too politically valuable for Sunak to his core voters

So the Irish PM is just being a windbag.

The League Of Villainy at the moment stands like this:

1 - People Smugglers
2 - The UK Government
3 - The Irish Government
4 - The EU
5 - Economic Migrants seeking to enter the UK illegally
6 - Asylum Seekers

The league of who is getting punished/blamed most is the precise inverse.

HTH.

[ChocolateFrog]

BBC News - 'I could not protect her': A dad mourns his child killed in the Channel
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68930088

Awful story and I'm going to sound really callous here.

You couldn't protect her? France was so awful and life threatening was it?

[crankedup5]

CivicDuties said:

crankedup5 said:

z4RRSchris said:

crankedup5 said:

z4RRSchris said:

nothing, its posturing. Uk Gov has an election to fight

So the Isle of Ireland Prime Minister is just shouting at the clouds?Why is U.K. Government responding to the shouting saying that the U.K. will not be accepting illegal migrants being returned from Isle of Ireland ? The GE hasnt even been called yet.

im saying what your saying.

uk wont accept them, its too politically valuable for Sunak to his core voters

So the Irish PM is just being a windbag.

The League Of Villainy at the moment stands like this:

1 - People Smugglers
2 - The UK Government
3 - The Irish Government
4 - The EU
5 - Economic Migrants seeking to enter the UK illegally
6 - Asylum Seekers

The league of who is getting punished/blamed most is the precise inverse.

HTH.

Yup, that is what is being contested, except the people traffickers who are doing very nicely out of their trade. The Isle of Ireland is a relatively new contestant and comes straight in at number 3.
This whole debacle across Europe is shaping up for a miserable ending for lots of people. It’s taken at least ten years for the situation to come to a head, we are close to that now.

[otolith]

ChocolateFrog said:

BBC News - 'I could not protect her': A dad mourns his child killed in the Channel
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68930088

Awful story and I'm going to sound really callous here.

You couldn't protect her? France was so awful and life threatening was it?

He believed that they were going to be sent back to Iraq, though. Well, back for him and his wife, his kids were born in Europe.

"If I knew there was a 1% chance that I could keep the kids in Belgium or France or Sweden or Finland I would keep them there. All I wanted was for my kids to go to school. I didn't want any assistance. My wife and I can work. I just wanted to protect them and their childhoods and their dignity," he continued.

Not sure why he believed that the UK would be a better bet, though.

[Iamnotkloot]

CivicDuties said:

The League Of Villainy at the moment stands like this:

1 - People Smugglers
2 - The UK Government
3 - The Irish Government
4 - The EU
5 - Economic Migrants seeking to enter the UK illegally
6 - Asylum Seekers

The league of who is getting punished/blamed most is the precise inverse.

HTH.

Only two of your ‘villains’ are acting illegally….

The story of the lost child is awful, can’t imagine it….

[CivicDuties]

otolith said:

ChocolateFrog said:

BBC News - 'I could not protect her': A dad mourns his child killed in the Channel
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68930088

Awful story and I'm going to sound really callous here.

You couldn't protect her? France was so awful and life threatening was it?

He believed that they were going to be sent back to Iraq, though. Well, back for him and his wife, his kids were born in Europe.

"If I knew there was a 1% chance that I could keep the kids in Belgium or France or Sweden or Finland I would keep them there. All I wanted was for my kids to go to school. I didn't want any assistance. My wife and I can work. I just wanted to protect them and their childhoods and their dignity," he continued.

Not sure why he believed that the UK would be a better bet, though.

He certainly didn't think the Rwanda policy was a reason not to try it.

[Kowalski655]

hairykrishna said:

Why have we collectively paid some bloke with a failed asylum claim 3 grand to go to Rwanda? I wasn't aware that we had two bonkers Rwanda based schemes running in parallel.

I'd be interested in visiting Rwanda if the government fancies paying for my flight and giving me 3 grand.

The Voluntary Return Scheme has been around for ages, used to be less than £3k, cheaper than forcibly removing them. It goes on a card that can't be used in the UK, and if you come back again, IIRC it's meant to allow someone to be sent back right away. It applies to any country.

[Olivera]

ChocolateFrog said:

BBC News - 'I could not protect her': A dad mourns his child killed in the Channel
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68930088

Awful story and I'm going to sound really callous here.

You couldn't protect her? France was so awful and life threatening was it?

It's a tragic incident, but the BBC's language is deliberately emotive. I notice they say died only in the body of the article, but shoehorned killed into the title. Also no mention that the father may, in at least a small part, be to blame for placing his family in danger.

Edited by Olivera on Wednesday 1st May 15:52

[E63eeeeee...]

otolith said:

ChocolateFrog said:

BBC News - 'I could not protect her': A dad mourns his child killed in the Channel
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68930088

Awful story and I'm going to sound really callous here.

You couldn't protect her? France was so awful and life threatening was it?

He believed that they were going to be sent back to Iraq, though. Well, back for him and his wife, his kids were born in Europe.

"If I knew there was a 1% chance that I could keep the kids in Belgium or France or Sweden or Finland I would keep them there. All I wanted was for my kids to go to school. I didn't want any assistance. My wife and I can work. I just wanted to protect them and their childhoods and their dignity," he continued.

Not sure why he believed that the UK would be a better bet, though.

I'd imagine because it takes over a year to process a claim, which might even be successful, but in any case further delays any return to Iraq.

It's pretty horrific however you look at it, but obviously people don't go into it expecting they or their families will die, they see that tens of thousands have made the journey in the last few years.

[Mortarboard]

CivicDuties said:

The League Of Villainy at the moment stands like this:

1 - People Smugglers
2 - The UK Government
3 - The Irish Government
4 - The EU
5 - Economic Migrants seeking to enter the UK illegally
6 - Asylum Seekers

The league of who is getting punished/blamed most is the precise inverse.

HTH.

You'll note some posters won't even mention the word "asylum"- they're all "just" immigrants.

M.

[Vanden Saab]

Mortarboard said:

CivicDuties said:

The League Of Villainy at the moment stands like this:

1 - People Smugglers
2 - The UK Government
3 - The Irish Government
4 - The EU
5 - Economic Migrants seeking to enter the UK illegally
6 - Asylum Seekers

The league of who is getting punished/blamed most is the precise inverse.

HTH.

You'll note some posters won't even mention the word "asylum"- they're all "just" immigrants.

M.

Must have missed that, do you have some examples?

[Mortarboard]

Vanden Saab said:

Must have missed that, do you have some examples?

None so blind, etc.

In an asylum seekers thread, failing to mention the actual word, does stick out.

M.

[Mr Penguin]

Mortarboard said:

None so blind, etc.

In an asylum seekers thread, failing to mention the actual word, does stick out.

M.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34061097

Even the BBC refer to migrants rather than asylum seekers. Migrants covers everyone who is arriving and doesn't make any judgement on whether they are genuinely in need of help or terrorists pretending to be in need of help or anything in between.

[Mortarboard]

Mr Penguin said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34061097

Even the BBC refer to migrants rather than asylum seekers. Migrants covers everyone who is arriving and doesn't make any judgement on whether they are genuinely in need of help or terrorists pretending to be in need of help or anything in between.

Didn't know the BBC are all the posters in this thread....

M.

[SpidersWeb]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68934480 - "Civil servants mount court challenge over new Rwanda law"

In essence, although the Safety of Rwanda Act gives the Minister the power to decide whether or not to comply with a Rule 39 order made by the Strasbourg court which grounded the previous flights to Rwanda, there is a question as to whether the act says that civil servants following a Minister's orders based on that Act are legal - and civil servants are required to follow the law.

If the Safety of Rwanda Act doesn't mean that it is legal for civil servants to do what the Minister wants then likely the government would have to hold a parliamentary vote to either specify in law that the UK will ignore the injunctions or allow civil servants to break the law.

Either way, not a good day for Rishi.

Alternatives here for those who don't like the BBC -

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/01/civil-service-...
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/civil-serv...

[Earthdweller]

crankedup5 said:

z4RRSchris said:

crankedup5 said:

z4RRSchris said:

nothing, its posturing. Uk Gov has an election to fight

So the Isle of Ireland Prime Minister is just shouting at the clouds?Why is U.K. Government responding to the shouting saying that the U.K. will not be accepting illegal migrants being returned from Isle of Ireland ? The GE hasnt even been called yet.

im saying what your saying.

uk wont accept them, its too politically valuable for Sunak to his core voters

So the Irish PM is just being a windbag.

Firstly the Irish gov has two upcoming elections firstly the Euros in June and then within a similar time frame as the UK a national election

They are likely to get absolutely battered in both

Immigration is a massively contentious issue in Ireland with huge amounts of opposition to direct provision centres ( hotels being used for IPO’s) with serious disorder occurring in places the Irish Gov are trying to place them and a number of the intended locations being burnt down/confrontation with local residents

We’ve seen riots in Dublin when a foreign national (who subsequently turned out to have been granted Irish citizenship under dubious circs) attacked some children in Dublin

Recently in Limerick, Clare, Galway and this week in Newtown Mount Kennedy in Wicklow there has been serious disorder over these centres

The next flashpoint is likely to be in a village in Leitrim that has 600 residents and the Gov plans to house 155 single male asylum seekers in a hotel there

This is something that is being played out not just in Dublin but all across rural Ireland where small communities are being overwhelmed, its been reported that 1 in 5 residents in Ireland are not Irish now and that Ireland has taken more asylum seekers as a proportion of population that almost all other EU states

The whole place is creaking at the seams .. healthcare/housing/schooling/massive rise in crime esp murder and serious sexual offences, tourism badly affected by a number of violent attacks on foreign tourists and hotel rooms being taken out of the system to house asylum seekers which is causing huge knock ons in local economies in areas like Kerry/Donegal where a lot of place a rely heavily on tourism

The Gov is set on joining the EU migration pact, which appears to be heavily opposed by the populace .. there’s a big demo planned in Dublin for the 6th May

Against all this backdrop, McEntee (FG justice minister) suddenly announces that 80% of all arrivals are coming from NI(UK) and that the solution is two fold .. accept the EU migration plan and send all the migrants back to the UK even though the Irish Supreme Court says they can’t send migrants back to the UK as it’s not a safe country (cus Rwanda)

The Deputy PM Martin (from FF) has said McEntee’s figures are not based on facts or statistics (FG/FF two main coalition parties in Gov)

Against this backdrop the EU refuses to take any migrants back from the Uk and says any deal must be done at EU/UK level and no negotiations with individual member states ( Ireland demands U.K. takes everyone back yet U.K. can’t send anyone back to France)

So in summary this is a huge huge domestic issue in Ireland far more so than it is in the U.K. and the Gov is very unpopular over it and none more so than McEntee

The Gov wants to force through the EU migration pact and they are saying it’s the only way to reduce arrivals and they are trying to deflect blame for their open borders on the UK. (Send everyone back to the U.K. accept tag migration pact and everyone lives happily ever after)

It seems a massive own goal, for which they’ll get no support from the EU and they have created tension unnecessarily over the border, confrontation with the UK and somehow made Sunak appear strong and support the view that the Rwanda policy is working

Quite an accomplishment really

And yes the Irish PM is a useless windbag

[272BHP]

All these posters with such a laissez-faire attitude to migrants really need to realise that are directly contributing to the hardening of attitudes and a swing further right than the majority is comfortable with.

We are already seeing the far right sweep across Europe. I was always of the opinion that they could never get a foothold in the UK but now I am not so sure.

[Earthdweller]

272BHP said:

All these posters with such a laissez-faire attitude to migrants really need to realise that are directly contributing to the hardening of attitudes and a swing further right than the majority is comfortable with.

We are already seeing the far right sweep across Europe. I was always of the opinion that they could never get a foothold in the UK but now I am not so sure.

Migration is just one of many issues/factors facing Europe

What we are seeing is people fed up with the current situation/direction right across the continent

Incumbent Govs are going to bear the ire of unhappy voters .. that means leftish Govs are likely to move right and vice versa