USA Gratuity And/Or Tip?
Discussion
I've had the odd discussion on another forum with a US bar/restaurant owner that said that if you don't tip then you are "stiffing their staff", with absolutely no grasp of irony from them, to the point that by them not paying their staff was it was them "staffing their own staff" had not even entered their head.
also as it says in the video in most of the western seaboard the minimum wage for tipped staff is much higher than everywhere else so really it kind of enforces what i said in my last post even if they pay the staff the proper minimum wage your still going to tip and pay extra for the food to start with.
gotoPzero said:
We joked, because it was true, that the hotel staff in Cancun spoke better English than the hotel staff in most of the USA.
slightly O/T - recently went to Walmart (I know, I know) had to ask for toilet paper, only to be met with a blank look. I thought that maybe lavatory paper would do the trick, nope - still a blank look. I was reduced to asking what you wipe with after you go to the toilet. 
Panamax said:
I think we've already covered that point.
It's a ridiculous system which is why nowhere else in the civilised world does anything even vaguely similar.Panamax said:
The only reason they've got that basic gratuity on there is to get something out of the absolute tight-wads who would otherwise pay nothing for service.
ATG said:
Panamax said:
I think we've already covered that point.
It's a ridiculous system which is why nowhere else in the civilised world does anything even vaguely similar.Panamax said:
The only reason they've got that basic gratuity on there is to get something out of the absolute tight-wads who would otherwise pay nothing for service.
Tell me, where else in the ‘civilized world’ is being a server a career and not a stop-gap role or a role filled by students? Because I don’t remember it being so in the UK.
The Moose said:
ATG said:
Panamax said:
I think we've already covered that point.
It's a ridiculous system which is why nowhere else in the civilised world does anything even vaguely similar.Panamax said:
The only reason they've got that basic gratuity on there is to get something out of the absolute tight-wads who would otherwise pay nothing for service.
Tell me, where else in the ‘civilized world’ is being a server a career and not a stop-gap role or a role filled by students? Because I don’t remember it being so in the UK.
LunarOne said:
France. Being a waiter in France was always something of a career rather than a stop-gap job. Being treated as if they are "just a waiter" is probably the biggest reason why French waiters come across as rude or aloof. If you speak to them as knowledgeable food consultants, they will treat you quite differently.
It seems tough to find actual data with a 2 minute google, but on salaryexpert.com I found that the average wage for a waiter in France was 22,713€ ($24,787) yet in the US it was $31,781. That's a nearly 30% increase.Oh, and I'm not sure I'd say France was civilized...
I think most people can navigate the middle ground between being all Upstairs Downstairs and David Brent middle-management speak!Luke. said:
Here's a tip. Don't go to America. HTH...
Or do what we did during our many road trips - call into Walmart and buy a sandwich/boxed salad and drinks. Unless we are eating somewhere spectacular, I would rather spend my time in the US doing interesting things rather than finding somewhere to eat that is reasonable. By the time you have added local tax, gratuity and a tip, it gets a tad pricey, not helped by the exchange rate.
LunarOne said:
France. Being a waiter in France was always something of a career rather than a stop-gap job. Being treated as if they are "just a waiter" is probably the biggest reason why French waiters come across as rude or aloof. If you speak to them as knowledgeable food consultants, they will treat you quite differently.
Italy.The Moose said:
It seems tough to find actual data with a 2 minute google, but on salaryexpert.com I found that the average wage for a waiter in France was 22,713€ ($24,787) yet in the US it was $31,781. That's a nearly 30% increase.
Oh, and I'm not sure I'd say France was civilized...
Now adjust that for average incomes / cost-of-living. (hint - both mean and median measures show the USA as being >>50% greater than France)Oh, and I'm not sure I'd say France was civilized...
...and just to prove that, I could go to the US and get an apparent 50-60% pay increase easily.
BUT, compared to France, I'd lose a LOT of benefits, I'd have to work more days and longer hours, I'd have to pay quite a bit more to eat out, a lot more to enjoy 'events', etc. And I'd have to live in America.
So, merging the sets of stats, a waiter in the USA is, compared to other professions, 20-30% worse off than one in France. And possibly worse off in real terms, depending on whether they need to pay for their own health insurance etc...
Add the fact that in France you know you will receive the salary of €22,713 because it's the law that your employer has to pay you all of your salary. You can expect to earn an extra 5-10% in tips, similar to a bonus.
But in America it's completely legal to pay you well below the minimum wage, so let's say half your salary is guaranteed and the rest is made up for in tips, so you have to hope every customer leaves a 20-25% tip. Problem is your boss doesn't discount the prices on the menu to compensate this so the customer is finding eating out more expensive. And the less customers you get the less tips you get, all while your boss is making a fortune charging full price and paying staff below minimum wage
But in America it's completely legal to pay you well below the minimum wage, so let's say half your salary is guaranteed and the rest is made up for in tips, so you have to hope every customer leaves a 20-25% tip. Problem is your boss doesn't discount the prices on the menu to compensate this so the customer is finding eating out more expensive. And the less customers you get the less tips you get, all while your boss is making a fortune charging full price and paying staff below minimum wage
RichFN2 said:
But in America it's completely legal to pay you well below the minimum wage, so let's say half your salary is guaranteed and the rest is made up for in tips, so you have to hope every customer leaves a 20-25% tip.
Why do you talk nonsense on something you clearly know nothing about?If a member of wait staff does not earn minimum wage (employer's contribution + tips) then the employer has to make up the difference to the minimum wage. So no, it is not completely legal to pay below the minimum wage.
When you speak to wait staff and ask if they would prefer a fixed salary, why do you think they predominantly prefer the system as it is currently?
Don't get me wrong, I don't think the system is perfect (why is it 'worth' more to open and pour a more expensive bottle of wine than a cheaper one) but when I speak with friends who have worked as wait staff in UK and USA the people in the USA have definitely reported more positively.
psi310398 said:
LunarOne said:
France. Being a waiter in France was always something of a career rather than a stop-gap job. Being treated as if they are "just a waiter" is probably the biggest reason why French waiters come across as rude or aloof. If you speak to them as knowledgeable food consultants, they will treat you quite differently.
Italy.Every State have their own minimum wage rates, although a few still have no minimum wage.
My sister works as a barmaid in Florida and earns $8.98 an hour, which is the State minimum for tipped staff. She normally earns between $500 - $700 a shift when you add her tips and over a $1000 on a really busy shift.
She is a really good barmaid tho, she used to work in the local village pub before she moved over there, and could manage busy shifts by herself, when the other barmaids would need someone else helping them and still be slower.
My sister works as a barmaid in Florida and earns $8.98 an hour, which is the State minimum for tipped staff. She normally earns between $500 - $700 a shift when you add her tips and over a $1000 on a really busy shift.
She is a really good barmaid tho, she used to work in the local village pub before she moved over there, and could manage busy shifts by herself, when the other barmaids would need someone else helping them and still be slower.
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