EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
BricktopST205 said:
Mikebentley said:
Not luck hard work. It’s I think due to the fact I don’t envy what anyone else has I just think fair play to them. With so much in life I think if you want stuff work hard and pay for it and if it works for you go for it.
As far as EVs go that’s sort of the point. They work for lots of people and would actually work perfectly fine in their current iterations for a great many more if they could stop reading the Daily Fail etc. Most of the sceptics on here when you dig down are driving cars with values between £5k and £10k or less. They base their arguments on the price of EVs when they really can’t afford a new car of any sort.
When you work hard though to buy something which value is only second to your house I want it to retain at least some of its value though. Buying brand new cars is generally stupid when you really think about it but the drop in EV's is hard to stomach as a private buyer.As far as EVs go that’s sort of the point. They work for lots of people and would actually work perfectly fine in their current iterations for a great many more if they could stop reading the Daily Fail etc. Most of the sceptics on here when you dig down are driving cars with values between £5k and £10k or less. They base their arguments on the price of EVs when they really can’t afford a new car of any sort.
If I had bought a Taycan for 120k out of my own pocket as some sort of retirement gift to find out it is worth 50 grand now 18 months later I would be quite annoyed to say the least.
I would have never bought a brand new car last year if it had the same residuals as some EV's even though I would most likely keep the car for a long time.
I don’t know your circumstances so I apologise if I have got this wrong but you were never likely to buy a £120k Taycan…were you? So why are you getting your underwear twisted. I think the truth is you would quite like one but realise you will be the 3rd or 4 th owner by the time it’s affordable to you. Then you will be s
tting bricks worrying about a battery which by then there will be a whole industry keeping EV knackers on the road as there is for ICE now. You don’t want one and feel it won’t work for your road trips to the continent. My advice would be accept it and move on. Everybody has different circumstances. I would though as you are a professional driver get out there and drive a few, it costs nothing and you might enjoy it as a professional driver. It would also let you see what they are about. As I have posted previously I have had classics from 1930s to present day and every decade newer they are they get slightly less crappy to drive. But we call that crappy nature character.
BricktopST205 said:
When you work hard though to buy something which value is only second to your house I want it to retain at least some of its value though. Buying brand new cars is generally stupid when you really think about it but the drop in EV's is hard to stomach as a private buyer.
If I had bought a Taycan for 120k out of my own pocket as some sort of retirement gift to find out it is worth 50 grand now 18 months later I would be quite annoyed to say the least.
I would have never bought a brand new car last year if it had the same residuals as some EV's even though I would most likely keep the car for a long time.
Working hard is a mugs game. Working smart is where it’s at. If I had bought a Taycan for 120k out of my own pocket as some sort of retirement gift to find out it is worth 50 grand now 18 months later I would be quite annoyed to say the least.
I would have never bought a brand new car last year if it had the same residuals as some EV's even though I would most likely keep the car for a long time.
Do people really buy brand new cars and check how much they have depreciated every day or do they get on with life and just use the car for however long they have it? If you can’t cope with depreciation, don’t get a depreciating asset like a car!
Buying new cars is brilliant. You get to spec them how you want and you don’t have to concern yourself whether the previous owners abused it and you get the peace of mind of a manufacturers warranty,
Mikehig said:
DonkeyApple: " The U.K. having killed off its own industry last century.... "
You've made this point a few times and I've nodded along so I was surprised to read recently that we have overtaken France to be 6th in the league of manufacturing exports. That suggests to me that, while we have moved away from basic stuff like steel, etc, we are still vulnerable to China et al as they move up the value/technology food-chain.
So is it more the case that we are not in the front line, unlike our European neighbours, but the tide will eventually reach us as well?
The UK has moved from being the seventh biggest exporter, whilst we were in the EU, to become the fourth biggest exporter now.You've made this point a few times and I've nodded along so I was surprised to read recently that we have overtaken France to be 6th in the league of manufacturing exports. That suggests to me that, while we have moved away from basic stuff like steel, etc, we are still vulnerable to China et al as they move up the value/technology food-chain.
So is it more the case that we are not in the front line, unlike our European neighbours, but the tide will eventually reach us as well?
https://www.financialaccountant.co.uk/features/uk-...
Didn't I hear that Brexit was going to destroy our exports?
Tigger2050 said:
The UK has moved from being the seventh biggest exporter, whilst we were in the EU, to become the fourth biggest exporter now.
https://www.financialaccountant.co.uk/features/uk-...
Didn't I hear that Brexit was going to destroy our exports?
And exports as most people know it ("made in the UK") are lagging.https://www.financialaccountant.co.uk/features/uk-...
Didn't I hear that Brexit was going to destroy our exports?
We're excelling in exporting financial services and education. Who benefits from that? Not exactly job creation activities are they?
But incase you didn't read your own reference.
"But we should sound a note of caution here. The growth is evident in the services sector, while the goods sector lags, especially compared to this time last year. This concern was highlighted by the Bank of England (BoE) at its March 2024 meeting, when the bank also noted that demand for UK goods remained strong in the US, while weakening in China and the EU.
The export of vehicles and aerospace equipment from brands like Land Rover and Rolls-Royce have contributed extensively to the UK’s export figures. But the dominance of the service category is evident in the tourism and professional sectors such as higher education, architecture and insurance, and particularly in financial services. In the same March meeting, the BoE noted that service exports grew in value due primarily to prices, as volumes grew only slightly"
raspy said:
BricktopST205 said:
When you work hard though to buy something which value is only second to your house I want it to retain at least some of its value though. Buying brand new cars is generally stupid when you really think about it but the drop in EV's is hard to stomach as a private buyer.
If I had bought a Taycan for 120k out of my own pocket as some sort of retirement gift to find out it is worth 50 grand now 18 months later I would be quite annoyed to say the least.
I would have never bought a brand new car last year if it had the same residuals as some EV's even though I would most likely keep the car for a long time.
Working hard is a mugs game. Working smart is where it’s at. If I had bought a Taycan for 120k out of my own pocket as some sort of retirement gift to find out it is worth 50 grand now 18 months later I would be quite annoyed to say the least.
I would have never bought a brand new car last year if it had the same residuals as some EV's even though I would most likely keep the car for a long time.
Do people really buy brand new cars and check how much they have depreciated every day or do they get on with life and just use the car for however long they have it? If you can’t cope with depreciation, don’t get a depreciating asset like a car!
Buying new cars is brilliant. You get to spec them how you want and you don’t have to concern yourself whether the previous owners abused it and you get the peace of mind of a manufacturers warranty,
- raspy sssshhhhh! I’ve convinced everyone I work hard the truth is I’m smarter than that and only work as hard as I have to. Don’t tell anyone .
raspy said:
Working hard is a mugs game. Working smart is where it’s at.
Do people really buy brand new cars and check how much they have depreciated every day or do they get on with life and just use the car for however long they have it? If you can’t cope with depreciation, don’t get a depreciating asset like a car!
Buying new cars is brilliant. You get to spec them how you want and you don’t have to concern yourself whether the previous owners abused it and you get the peace of mind of a manufacturers warranty,
Very few cars are truly desirable enough for anyone to actually buy them. Most are financed or leased to unlock hidden manufacturer discounts, deposit contributions and inflated future values. Do people really buy brand new cars and check how much they have depreciated every day or do they get on with life and just use the car for however long they have it? If you can’t cope with depreciation, don’t get a depreciating asset like a car!
Buying new cars is brilliant. You get to spec them how you want and you don’t have to concern yourself whether the previous owners abused it and you get the peace of mind of a manufacturers warranty,
That why so many cars are bing handed back at the end of finance agreements - the finance companies are bearing the cost of depreciation, not the ‘owners’
BricktopST205 said:
GT9 said:
No it's not available to buy, 2025 is supposedly when we will see the AMG vision production car.
Expect a fatter Taycan rival, although the manufacturers are edging closer to something like the car I posted.
I appreciate that the transition we are seeing to EV is messy and uncomfortable for some.
I think quite a few of the posts on this thread are lamenting the fact we can't simply arrive at the destination without the journey.
That is why people like me are waiting for the others to do the messy part which is where I come in when it is finished. I am more annoyed at OEM's shovelling crap at stupid prices to get there rather than actual people buying them. Expect a fatter Taycan rival, although the manufacturers are edging closer to something like the car I posted.
I appreciate that the transition we are seeing to EV is messy and uncomfortable for some.
I think quite a few of the posts on this thread are lamenting the fact we can't simply arrive at the destination without the journey.
Evanivitch said:
And exports as most people know it ("made in the UK") are lagging.
We're excelling in exporting financial services and education. Who benefits from that? Not exactly job creation activities are they?
But incase you didn't read your own reference.
"But we should sound a note of caution here. The growth is evident in the services sector, while the goods sector lags, especially compared to this time last year. This concern was highlighted by the Bank of England (BoE) at its March 2024 meeting, when the bank also noted that demand for UK goods remained strong in the US, while weakening in China and the EU.
The export of vehicles and aerospace equipment from brands like Land Rover and Rolls-Royce have contributed extensively to the UK’s export figures. But the dominance of the service category is evident in the tourism and professional sectors such as higher education, architecture and insurance, and particularly in financial services. In the same March meeting, the BoE noted that service exports grew in value due primarily to prices, as volumes grew only slightly"
Export values are about the value of the products you provide to other nations. China is strong on physical goods the UK (and the USA) are strong on other products.We're excelling in exporting financial services and education. Who benefits from that? Not exactly job creation activities are they?
But incase you didn't read your own reference.
"But we should sound a note of caution here. The growth is evident in the services sector, while the goods sector lags, especially compared to this time last year. This concern was highlighted by the Bank of England (BoE) at its March 2024 meeting, when the bank also noted that demand for UK goods remained strong in the US, while weakening in China and the EU.
The export of vehicles and aerospace equipment from brands like Land Rover and Rolls-Royce have contributed extensively to the UK’s export figures. But the dominance of the service category is evident in the tourism and professional sectors such as higher education, architecture and insurance, and particularly in financial services. In the same March meeting, the BoE noted that service exports grew in value due primarily to prices, as volumes grew only slightly"
The UK exports more than five times the amount China does per capita. Way more, per capita, than the USA.
Still, people love to denigrate the UK for some reason.
survivalist said:
Very few cars are truly desirable enough for anyone to actually buy them. Most are financed or leased to unlock hidden manufacturer discounts, deposit contributions and inflated future values.
That why so many cars are bing handed back at the end of finance agreements - the finance companies are bearing the cost of depreciation, not the ‘owners’
This has probably been covered to death in the numerous leasing threads, but the idea the drivers of lease cars avoiding the cost of depreciation is daft.That why so many cars are bing handed back at the end of finance agreements - the finance companies are bearing the cost of depreciation, not the ‘owners’
It's simply factored into the lease price.
List price less estimate of future value equals hire charge (plus interest a d running costs of course).
Yes, dealer discounts might be added, but they won't outweigh depreciation.
And yes a driver might be in "positive equity" if the estimated value is below the actual value, but cars are handed back because the driver's agreement to rent them has ended.
If a finance company didn't recoup the depreciatoon in the lease fee, all they'd be charging for is service costs and interest, and would have a business model where they have to buy brand new cars and only have the sales proceeds of three year old cars to do it with - how would they afford that? They're not charities.
They afford this by charging drivers for the cost of "using" the car during the leaae period- ie depreciation.
It might not be called that in the lease agreement, but that's what it is.
If lease companies underestimate depreciation by agreeing a final value way above reality, then the driver might be insulated somewhat from the fall in value, but the lease company couldn't do that indefinitely as they would run out of cash/reserves.
Ian Geary said:
This has probably been covered to death in the numerous leasing threads, but the idea the drivers of lease cars avoiding the cost of depreciation is daft.
It's simply factored into the lease price.
List price less estimate of future value equals hire charge (plus interest a d running costs of course).
Yes, dealer discounts might be added, but they won't outweigh depreciation.
And yes a driver might be in "positive equity" if the estimated value is below the actual value, but cars are handed back because the driver's agreement to rent them has ended.
If a finance company didn't recoup the depreciatoon in the lease fee, all they'd be charging for is service costs and interest, and would have a business model where they have to buy brand new cars and only have the sales proceeds of three year old cars to do it with - how would they afford that? They're not charities.
They afford this by charging drivers for the cost of "using" the car during the leaae period- ie depreciation.
It might not be called that in the lease agreement, but that's what it is.
If lease companies underestimate depreciation by agreeing a final value way above reality, then the driver might be insulated somewhat from the fall in value, but the lease company couldn't do that indefinitely as they would run out of cash/reserves.
Agreed, leasing is for mugs. Only thing you’re getting is certainly on the monthlies. It's simply factored into the lease price.
List price less estimate of future value equals hire charge (plus interest a d running costs of course).
Yes, dealer discounts might be added, but they won't outweigh depreciation.
And yes a driver might be in "positive equity" if the estimated value is below the actual value, but cars are handed back because the driver's agreement to rent them has ended.
If a finance company didn't recoup the depreciatoon in the lease fee, all they'd be charging for is service costs and interest, and would have a business model where they have to buy brand new cars and only have the sales proceeds of three year old cars to do it with - how would they afford that? They're not charities.
They afford this by charging drivers for the cost of "using" the car during the leaae period- ie depreciation.
It might not be called that in the lease agreement, but that's what it is.
If lease companies underestimate depreciation by agreeing a final value way above reality, then the driver might be insulated somewhat from the fall in value, but the lease company couldn't do that indefinitely as they would run out of cash/reserves.
KingGary said:
Ian Geary said:
This has probably been covered to death in the numerous leasing threads, but the idea the drivers of lease cars avoiding the cost of depreciation is daft.
It's simply factored into the lease price.
List price less estimate of future value equals hire charge (plus interest a d running costs of course).
Yes, dealer discounts might be added, but they won't outweigh depreciation.
And yes a driver might be in "positive equity" if the estimated value is below the actual value, but cars are handed back because the driver's agreement to rent them has ended.
If a finance company didn't recoup the depreciatoon in the lease fee, all they'd be charging for is service costs and interest, and would have a business model where they have to buy brand new cars and only have the sales proceeds of three year old cars to do it with - how would they afford that? They're not charities.
They afford this by charging drivers for the cost of "using" the car during the leaae period- ie depreciation.
It might not be called that in the lease agreement, but that's what it is.
If lease companies underestimate depreciation by agreeing a final value way above reality, then the driver might be insulated somewhat from the fall in value, but the lease company couldn't do that indefinitely as they would run out of cash/reserves.
Agreed, leasing is for mugs. Only thing you’re getting is certainly on the monthlies. It's simply factored into the lease price.
List price less estimate of future value equals hire charge (plus interest a d running costs of course).
Yes, dealer discounts might be added, but they won't outweigh depreciation.
And yes a driver might be in "positive equity" if the estimated value is below the actual value, but cars are handed back because the driver's agreement to rent them has ended.
If a finance company didn't recoup the depreciatoon in the lease fee, all they'd be charging for is service costs and interest, and would have a business model where they have to buy brand new cars and only have the sales proceeds of three year old cars to do it with - how would they afford that? They're not charities.
They afford this by charging drivers for the cost of "using" the car during the leaae period- ie depreciation.
It might not be called that in the lease agreement, but that's what it is.
If lease companies underestimate depreciation by agreeing a final value way above reality, then the driver might be insulated somewhat from the fall in value, but the lease company couldn't do that indefinitely as they would run out of cash/reserves.
This is usually funded by manufacturers taking the hit and offering deals on certain cars. Lease companies themselves aren’t charities.
This depreciation-beating doesn’t apply to every lease, obviously, but the goal of sensible leasing is to have something that fits in to this bracket.
tamore said:
Tindersticks said:
Ford Granada 2.8i Ghia X isn't it?KingGary said:
tamore said:
I do like a Ford and my Dad had a 2.8 Granada. Now I drive mostly petrol V8s.KingGary said:
tamore said:
I do like a Ford and my Dad had a 2.8 Granada. Now I drive mostly petrol V8s.Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff