Porsche Arrogance?
Discussion
It seems Porsche are increasing their prices on a quarterly basis, especially on classics. The issue I'm seeing is the overall quality; it's not as good as it once was (when the parts were cheaper).
For example, a 993 rear windscreen used to be around £580 leading up to the pandemic. They're now well north of £1k to buy. Cost of raw materials, war, scandal, blah, blah and bloody blah. At least give us the same quality! I'm having issues with 996 windscreens, rubber products for air-cooled and even the hardware on windscreens in general is just a bit lacking (a one year-old 992 with the mirror bracket coming unstuck!).
If I have an issue with any of these now enthusiastically priced items, I can return it, right? Well, it's not so straight forward. Germany will kick it back and say it's down to the installer. Their view is that if the job came through one of their workshops, a technician raises a 'ticket' and files a 'DMR' report with images etc. They will then investigate. Considering that I am the sub contractor specialist, why dismiss my returned faulty items at the trade counter?
Several years ago there was an issue with 993 rear windscreens where the soldered on terminals just fell off. You only had to look at them wrong and they would come off. When receiving one from PGB I would just apply a little bit of pressure (about the same as you would to push a spade connector on with) and wallop; off it would come. There was even one with the terminal missing - it had fallen off in transit and was lying at the bottom of the box when we opened it). I rejected about four windscreens before I got a good one. Germany's stance was that the installer must have been doing something wrong. The trade parts counter had to write that stock off as Porsche Germany were simply not interested.
Something similar happened with a 997 windscreen where the silkprint (the black frit around the windscreen) faded to reveal a transparent section on the A-pillar (two years after fitting). Porsche Germany didn't want to know (as the windscreen was not replaced at an OPC) and even asking the warranty guy at OPC was futile as there was no record of the windscreen being fitted by them. Even if there was, it would have been ME that fitted it! I will always honour my guarantee to my customer, but it's me getting shafted when these issues arise. Having a relationship with the (trade) parts counter means that they will make sure I get as much business as they can give me (well, I'm the specialist and I get that work anyway) and I'll get an extra bit of discount on my next couple of purchases.
If Porsche Germany are going to be this awkward about parts that don't live up to their name, why sell them to me in the first place? Why not tag them as OPC only! It's so arrogant. Yet, when they're in a pickle and the warranty memo says to repair 'using the most economical option' I should just order every conjunction item they recommend! But I don't, I often get them out of a hole because it is the right thing to do.
OE 996 windscreens now fit as badly as their non-branded aftermarket windscreens did which, I estimate, is the result of plants being consolidated and them keeping the wrong tooling or using the wrong blueprint.
Later 993 heated rear windscreens are put together so cheaply, you have to mess about with them before fitting (which is what you would do with a cheap pattern part).
OE 997 windscreens: the antenna is off-centre. It runs through the rain sensor mount and 2/3mm is okay. 5-10mm is unacceptable.
Rubber products. I've developed techniques to make them fit which usually means much more time than necessary. It's just not right. Kick it back to Germany and they point to the workshop. When it does go through the workshop, it's still me doing the fitting as the specialist subbie, and what's the result? They authorise a new part and the cost to fit it. Rinse and repeat. It;s just really poor from Porsche and very arrogant.
For example, a 993 rear windscreen used to be around £580 leading up to the pandemic. They're now well north of £1k to buy. Cost of raw materials, war, scandal, blah, blah and bloody blah. At least give us the same quality! I'm having issues with 996 windscreens, rubber products for air-cooled and even the hardware on windscreens in general is just a bit lacking (a one year-old 992 with the mirror bracket coming unstuck!).
If I have an issue with any of these now enthusiastically priced items, I can return it, right? Well, it's not so straight forward. Germany will kick it back and say it's down to the installer. Their view is that if the job came through one of their workshops, a technician raises a 'ticket' and files a 'DMR' report with images etc. They will then investigate. Considering that I am the sub contractor specialist, why dismiss my returned faulty items at the trade counter?
Several years ago there was an issue with 993 rear windscreens where the soldered on terminals just fell off. You only had to look at them wrong and they would come off. When receiving one from PGB I would just apply a little bit of pressure (about the same as you would to push a spade connector on with) and wallop; off it would come. There was even one with the terminal missing - it had fallen off in transit and was lying at the bottom of the box when we opened it). I rejected about four windscreens before I got a good one. Germany's stance was that the installer must have been doing something wrong. The trade parts counter had to write that stock off as Porsche Germany were simply not interested.
Something similar happened with a 997 windscreen where the silkprint (the black frit around the windscreen) faded to reveal a transparent section on the A-pillar (two years after fitting). Porsche Germany didn't want to know (as the windscreen was not replaced at an OPC) and even asking the warranty guy at OPC was futile as there was no record of the windscreen being fitted by them. Even if there was, it would have been ME that fitted it! I will always honour my guarantee to my customer, but it's me getting shafted when these issues arise. Having a relationship with the (trade) parts counter means that they will make sure I get as much business as they can give me (well, I'm the specialist and I get that work anyway) and I'll get an extra bit of discount on my next couple of purchases.
If Porsche Germany are going to be this awkward about parts that don't live up to their name, why sell them to me in the first place? Why not tag them as OPC only! It's so arrogant. Yet, when they're in a pickle and the warranty memo says to repair 'using the most economical option' I should just order every conjunction item they recommend! But I don't, I often get them out of a hole because it is the right thing to do.
OE 996 windscreens now fit as badly as their non-branded aftermarket windscreens did which, I estimate, is the result of plants being consolidated and them keeping the wrong tooling or using the wrong blueprint.
Later 993 heated rear windscreens are put together so cheaply, you have to mess about with them before fitting (which is what you would do with a cheap pattern part).
OE 997 windscreens: the antenna is off-centre. It runs through the rain sensor mount and 2/3mm is okay. 5-10mm is unacceptable.
Rubber products. I've developed techniques to make them fit which usually means much more time than necessary. It's just not right. Kick it back to Germany and they point to the workshop. When it does go through the workshop, it's still me doing the fitting as the specialist subbie, and what's the result? They authorise a new part and the cost to fit it. Rinse and repeat. It;s just really poor from Porsche and very arrogant.
Philvrs said:
Sad to read, as i was thinking about a replacement screen for my 996, and getting a “porsche” one was the advice i had read from the internet.
Hope its not just a sign of the times.
With a bit of jiggery pokery they will pass the mark but it's a bit of messing about. At a glance you will be okay with it, but if I drew your attention to the issue it's there to see. Hope its not just a sign of the times.
The OEM for the 996 front windscreen is Saint Gobain Sekurit. They also do a non-branded one but their manufacturer name is on there (much larger, bold font). The fit was so poor I would refuse to entertain them due to the time they took me to make look good/acceptable (but save the customer money - it wasn't an economical move for me). I insisted on OE, or go elsewhere.
The new OE windscreens have the same large, bold font. They fit just as poorly as the aftermarket ones I used to refuse.
Being an advocate and ambassador for OE parts, it now means I'm f
king about with inferior quality parts which is fundamentally wrong. KittyLitter said:
I assume people only use Porsche for servicing to retain their warranty - but for those not doing it for that, why would you use an OPC vs a hi-end Indie like AutoFarm and the like.
It's also great that most will see say a non genuine windscreen fitted and ask questions or use it to negotiate. For me, it's potentially great for business. In the background, the prices for windscreens are on the upward trajectory. ds666 said:
Glassman said:
ds666 said:
Even at £1k a 996 windscreen seems a snip compared with one for a Taycan . My excess is £2.5k ….
Windscreen excess?How much is a windscreen for a Taycan Turbo CT ????
CanAm said:
Glassman, my Cayman has a Pilkington screen (I'm happy with that); could it have been the original fitting, and is the date of manufacture shown somehow?
The 987 and 987.1 windscreens are Porsche branded:If it doesn't bear the Porsche hallmark, with rare exception, it isn't the same as one that does. Look at the Pilkington logo you'll see a dot above the 'L' which indicates the Pilkington windscreen in your car was manufactured in Aken, Germany which is the old SIGLA plant, now an acquired brand of NSG Pilkington.
In terms of the quality, it's probably the best non-genuine you can get.
For reasons unknown to anyone outside of Porsche, the later 982/718 models the windscreens (and body glass) do not bear the [Porsche] emblem.
ds666 said:
Glassman said:
ds666 said:
The windscreen excess on my Taycan is £2000 . Fact .
Makes no sense. It means you will be paying more than the insurer. No point in claiming if you're paying most, if not all the bill. Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff