UK asylum seekers expected to be flown to Rwanda

[EddieSteadyGo]

Earthdweller said:

...What's happening in Ireland politics re immigration....

Interesting summary.

[CivicDuties]

272BHP said:

All these posters with such a laissez-faire attitude to migrants really need to realise that are directly contributing to the hardening of attitudes and a swing further right than the majority is comfortable with.

We are already seeing the far right sweep across Europe. I was always of the opinion that they could never get a foothold in the UK but now I am not so sure.

If this Rwanda policy and law isn't an indicator that this country has actually been under the governance of the far right since at least the 2019 election and possibly a few years longer going back to the start of the "Hostile Environment" policy of Theresa May, then I don't know what they'd have to do to convince us of the fact.

It's been a very British coup.

[crankedup5]

Earthdweller said:

272BHP said:

All these posters with such a laissez-faire attitude to migrants really need to realise that are directly contributing to the hardening of attitudes and a swing further right than the majority is comfortable with.

We are already seeing the far right sweep across Europe. I was always of the opinion that they could never get a foothold in the UK but now I am not so sure.

Migration is just one of many issues/factors facing Europe

What we are seeing is people fed up with the current situation/direction right across the continent

Incumbent Govs are going to bear the ire of unhappy voters .. that means leftish Govs are likely to move right and vice versa

Indeed, and why we are witnessing increasing power shifting to the Far Right in a number of European Countries.

[EddieSteadyGo]

CivicDuties said:

If this Rwanda policy and law isn't an indicator that this country has actually been under the governance of the far right since at least the 2019 election and possibly a few years longer going back to the start of the "Hostile Environment" policy of Theresa May, then I don't know what they'd have to do to convince us of the fact.

It's been a very British coup.

If the country is actually under the control of the "far right" and there is a genuine "hostile environment" why are more people than ever trying to get to the UK?

I personally think the new incoming Labour government, and possible other countries in the EU, will probably eventually adopt some version of the Rwanda policy.

[Mr Penguin]

Some EU countries are already working on their own versions of Rwanda, so halfway there already.

[E63eeeeee...]

CivicDuties said:

272BHP said:

All these posters with such a laissez-faire attitude to migrants really need to realise that are directly contributing to the hardening of attitudes and a swing further right than the majority is comfortable with.

We are already seeing the far right sweep across Europe. I was always of the opinion that they could never get a foothold in the UK but now I am not so sure.

If this Rwanda policy and law isn't an indicator that this country has actually been under the governance of the far right since at least the 2019 election and possibly a few years longer going back to the start of the "Hostile Environment" policy of Theresa May, then I don't know what they'd have to do to convince us of the fact.

It's been a very British coup.

While I don't broadly disagree, it's worth pointing out that the hostile environment wasn't May's policy, it came in around 2008 under Labour. Its strictness and scope was limited by the fact that there were cohorts of people in the UK who were British but couldn't prove their status, or who reasonably assumed they were British but actually weren't, and often there were no official records either way once the landing cards were destroyed in 2010.

What May did do was decide to go harder and faster on hostile environment and harden the general system and culture, and in order to do that she accepted the risk this would fk over those groups who eventually became known as the Windrush cohort, with predictable results.

[Talksteer]

119 said:

And we now have a number of migrants in our country who had no qualms about stomping a little girl to death beneath their feet so they could claim their spot on that boat.

Terrible, just like those monsters at Hillsborough or concert or night club goers where people get crushed.

Stop demonising desperate people, it's not like those people where pushing on an overcrowded tube train. They'd probably paid all their savings to be there and there were police firing CS gas.

The idea that there is a tiny % chance of being sent to Rwanda would put these people off is laughable.

Edited by Talksteer on Thursday 2nd May 12:20

[CivicDuties]

EddieSteadyGo said:

CivicDuties said:

If this Rwanda policy and law isn't an indicator that this country has actually been under the governance of the far right since at least the 2019 election and possibly a few years longer going back to the start of the "Hostile Environment" policy of Theresa May, then I don't know what they'd have to do to convince us of the fact.

It's been a very British coup.

If the country is actually under the control of the "far right" and there is a genuine "hostile environment" why are more people than ever trying to get to the UK?

I personally think the new incoming Labour government, and possible other countries in the EU, will probably eventually adopt some version of the Rwanda policy.

Because even considering the downsides the UK looks like a far better place to be than the war torn dictatorships these people are fleeing?

I find it an article of pride in my country that people want to come here. I used to be proud of how we welcomed them into an open and tolerant society. I am now ashamed that we handcuff asylum seekers to put them onto planes to a country we know to be unsafe, but have passed some Mickey Mouse legislation which seeks to deny the truth of the matter.

There are some policies like Australia's for offshore processing of asylum applications. The UK's Rwanda policy, however, is not that. It is a permanent removals programme and merely an act of performative cruelty designed to appeal to people who think Lee Anderson is a rational human being. I'd be surprised if Labour persisted with it, and I'd be surprised if anyone else tried to copy it - it's a bit Like Brexit, the UK have shown what an abject disaster it is and nobody else would be stupid enough to try it now.

[otolith]

272BHP said:

All these posters with such a laissez-faire attitude to migrants really need to realise that are directly contributing to the hardening of attitudes and a swing further right than the majority is comfortable with.

We are already seeing the far right sweep across Europe. I was always of the opinion that they could never get a foothold in the UK but now I am not so sure.

Amplification of concerns about immigration by populist right wing governments for their own ends feeds those far right narratives. The Tories made "stopping the boats" an issue for people who have no exposure to it and to whose lives it makes sod all difference.

[irc]

The Irish seem to think it is working. The bottom line is there are many millions of people in poorer countries who would love to move to the UK. We can't take them all so need border controls.

Sending anyone who comes in a small boat from a safe country like France to Rwanda is fine by me. Get on with it.

[119]

Talksteer said:

272BHP said:

119 said:

And we now have a number of migrants in our country who had no qualms about stomping a little girl to death beneath their feet so they could claim their spot on that boat.

Terrible, just like those monsters at Hillsborough or concert or night club goers where people get crushed.

Stop demonising desperate people, it's not like those people where pushing on an overcrowded tube train. They'd probably paid all their savings to be there and there were police firing CS gas.

The idea that there is a tiny % chance of being sent to Rwanda would put these people off is laughable.

I would appreciate you sorting out your quoting fk up as i didn't post that at all.

[blueg33]

Mr Penguin said:

Some EU countries are already working on their own versions of Rwanda, so halfway there already.

Great - some countries followed Hitler's model too............

[Tom8]

The assumption that everyone coming here is a genuine asylum seeker is akin to those who see every benefit claimant as some sort of pitiful dickens character. The problem is the genuine and genuinely needy, who people are mostly happy to help and accommodate, are lost in the avalanche of those others who see an opportunity.

The reaction of the Irish shows the power of the Rwanda policy and how every government is in the "same boat" on this issue. Apart from just turning a blind eye and accepting everyone (which means huge numbers more would follow), what is the solution?

[EddieSteadyGo]

CivicDuties said:

Because even considering the downsides the UK looks like a far better place to be than the war torn dictatorships these people are fleeing?

I find it an article of pride in my country that people want to come here. I used to be proud of how we welcomed them into an open and tolerant society. I am now ashamed that we handcuff asylum seekers to put them onto planes to a country we know to be unsafe, but have passed some Mickey Mouse legislation which seeks to deny the truth of the matter.

There are some policies like Australia's for offshore processing of asylum applications. The UK's Rwanda policy, however, is not that. It is a permanent removals programme and merely an act of performative cruelty designed to appeal to people who think Lee Anderson is a rational human being. I'd be surprised if Labour persisted with it, and I'd be surprised if anyone else tried to copy it - it's a bit Like Brexit, the UK have shown what an abject disaster it is and nobody else would be stupid enough to try it now.

But you know the people coming on boats and claiming asylum have already passed through dozens of "safe" countries. So at some point they are picking the UK, not just because it is better than their home country, but because they believe it will be also better than the alternative countries they have chosen to overlook.

It's hard to rationalise that fact with your original claim about the UK government being "far right" and "hostile" toward immigration.

Personally, I'm not annoyed at the people who are striving for a better life who come to the UK on boats. If I was in that situation, I would do exactly the same, including saying/doing whatever was necessary to pass the asylum test threshold. But those people also aren't being treated cruelly if they are then given safety and asylum, just not in their first choice country.

[119]

blueg33 said:

Great - some countries followed Hitler's model too............

[CivicDuties]

EddieSteadyGo said:

CivicDuties said:

Because even considering the downsides the UK looks like a far better place to be than the war torn dictatorships these people are fleeing?

I find it an article of pride in my country that people want to come here. I used to be proud of how we welcomed them into an open and tolerant society. I am now ashamed that we handcuff asylum seekers to put them onto planes to a country we know to be unsafe, but have passed some Mickey Mouse legislation which seeks to deny the truth of the matter.

There are some policies like Australia's for offshore processing of asylum applications. The UK's Rwanda policy, however, is not that. It is a permanent removals programme and merely an act of performative cruelty designed to appeal to people who think Lee Anderson is a rational human being. I'd be surprised if Labour persisted with it, and I'd be surprised if anyone else tried to copy it - it's a bit Like Brexit, the UK have shown what an abject disaster it is and nobody else would be stupid enough to try it now.

But you know the people coming on boats and claiming asylum have already passed through dozens of "safe" countries. So at some point they are picking the UK, not just because it is better than their home country, but because they believe it will be also better than the alternative countries they have chosen to overlook.

It's hard to rationalise that fact with your original claim about the UK government being "far right" and "hostile" toward immigration.

Personally, I'm not annoyed at the people who are striving for a better life who come to the UK on boats. If I was in that situation, I would do exactly the same, including saying/doing whatever was necessary to pass the asylum test threshold. But those people also aren't being treated cruelly if they are then given safety and asylum, just not in their first choice country.

Why the "they should stop in other countries" argument still? Many more people stop in other countries and claim asylum than try to get to the UK. Despite our current hard right and hostile government, it is still one of the best places in the world to live. The government is going to change soon, the latter fact won't.

All I want is for our government to process applicants properly and remove those who fail a proper process. That's the answer, not performative cruelty.

[Mrr T]

CivicDuties said:

There are some policies like Australia's for offshore processing of asylum applications. The UK's Rwanda policy, however, is not that.

Thank God for that. The Australian process is a disgrace. Far worst than the government Rwanda scheme.

[CivicDuties]

Mrr T said:

CivicDuties said:

There are some policies like Australia's for offshore processing of asylum applications. The UK's Rwanda policy, however, is not that.

Thank God for that. The Australian process is a disgrace. Far worst than the government Rwanda scheme.

Is it? Thanks, I'll have a look. I must have been under the wrong impression about it.

[philv]

For all those complaining about the goverment's failings to address the immigration problem, or this part of it, look at the foreign office, civil service, activists, let lawyers, those slashing bus tyres, etc.

[Mrr T]

CivicDuties said:

Mrr T said:

CivicDuties said:

There are some policies like Australia's for offshore processing of asylum applications. The UK's Rwanda policy, however, is not that.

Thank God for that. The Australian process is a disgrace. Far worst than the government Rwanda scheme.

Is it? Thanks, I'll have a look. I must have been under the wrong impression about it.

Let me help. The conditions in the camp are appalling. If your claim is successful you do not get to Australia you remain in the camps, often for years, while the government tries to settle you elsewhere. Most end up in refugee swaps with the US.

Worth researching human rights in Australia. Not a civilised country.