Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)

[President Merkin]

NomduJour said:

You’re a Labour stooge

Hang on, let me understand something. Apart from not being a Labour voter, which you have incorrectly assumed. Is your postion that anyone who supports a political party contrary to your own political beliefs is a stooge?

Dunnig Kreuger moment - do you reckon you have enough about you to be in this here game? Because your language suggests not.

[Mr Penguin]

Their plans are listed here: https://www.bmj.com/content/381/bmj.p943

I think Wes Streeting has good ideas, whether he can get them past the unions and work with the civil service to refine them to actually deal with all the complexities of the NHS while running the day to day operations in a climate where there really is no money is a completely different question.

If he fails to get them through, I don't think anyone should hold it against him - it's a staggeringly huge task. Ken Clarke said the BMA were the toughest opponents he ever had to deal with.

[NomduJour]

President Merkin said:

Because your language suggests not

You are not worth the (minimal) effort. Carry on spamming NP&E.

[President Merkin]

Hey, only one of used a pejorative term. Maybe I was right then but I didn't think you'd fold so easily.

[Garvin]

BigMon said:

I think all the posters on here doom mongering about Labour should reflect that really the only reason Labour are where they are is due to the terrible last few Conservative administrations and their abject failure.

I see no reason why I should vote Conservative again after the last three elections and I am obviously not alone.

Is anyone here really rubbing their hands about Labour getting in? It very much is a case of least worst.

Firstly, why not ‘doom monger’ if one truly believes it will be worse?

Secondly, yes we are where we are due to the Conservatives and not because there is a credible alternative waiting in the wings.

Thirdly, I’m not sure anyone is advocating voting for a party one has no faith/confidence in.

Finally, there are some posters here relishing the prospect of a Labour government because, IMO, they think it will be an improvement.

[s1962a]

Garvin said:

Finally, there are some posters here relishing the prospect of a Labour government because, IMO, they think it will be an improvement.

Life will get more expensive under Labour. VAT on private school fees is a big issue for some.

What other "improvements" are Labour suggesting anyway? It will be high tax high spend, and they'll probably get rid of the Rwanda scheme and pull us into some "hooman rights" EU policies. Who wants that????

[Rufus Stone]

s1962a said:

Life will get more expensive under Labour. VAT on private school fees is a big issue for some.

What other "improvements" are Labour suggesting anyway? It will be high tax high spend, and they'll probably get rid of the Rwanda scheme and pull us into some "hooman rights" EU policies. Who wants that????

We already have high tax, perhaps Labour will spend it better improving the lives of the people living here.

[S600BSB]

Rufus Stone said:

s1962a said:

Life will get more expensive under Labour. VAT on private school fees is a big issue for some.

What other "improvements" are Labour suggesting anyway? It will be high tax high spend, and they'll probably get rid of the Rwanda scheme and pull us into some "hooman rights" EU policies. Who wants that????

We already have high tax, perhaps Labour will spend it better improving the lives of the people living here.

Not that tricky, is it…

[carlo996]

S600BSB said:

Not that tricky, is it…

Not when you haven’t done a single thing in office

But, hey, it’ll be great right

[C4ME]

s1962a said:

Life will get more expensive under Labour. VAT on private school fees is a big issue for some.

There are approx half a million kids in private schools (approx 6%). It will barely register for most of the population.

[carlo996]

C4ME said:

There are approx half a million kids in private schools (approx 6%). It will barely register for most of the population.

Yes, with those being the higher earning taxpayers etc, etc…

[bitchstewie]

Garvin said:

Enjoy your gloating . . . while it lasts!

Thanks Garvin I will.

This lot deserve an absolute kicking.

[carlo996]

bhstewie said:

Thanks Garvin I will.

This lot deserve an absolute kicking.

As they retire on gold plated pensions, lucrative private sector earnings and HOL entry. I’m sure they’ll be devastated at your words on the internet

[bitchstewie]

You're right but I can't change that.

I can take some minor pleasure watching them get kicked out of office.

[C4ME]

carlo996 said:

C4ME said:

There are approx half a million kids in private schools (approx 6%). It will barely register for most of the population.

Yes, with those being the higher earning taxpayers etc, etc…

Sure but to say “Life will get more expensive under Labour” and then quote that example. Life may well get more expensive under Labour, but your example only applies to a small part of the population.

Life has got more expensive under this government for a broad section of the population. Most folk will be interested in knowing about Labour proposals that do similar.

[bitchstewie]

C4ME said:

There are approx half a million kids in private schools (approx 6%). It will barely register for most of the population.

Quite.

No issue with people who choose to send their children to private schools.

But they're also a long way down my list of people who I'm going to be losing too much sleep over.

[turbobloke]

C4ME said:

Sure but to say “Life will get more expensive under Labour” and then quote that example. Life may well get more expensive under Labour, but (that) example only applies to a small part of the population.

If Labour raises taxation including to add funds to the state education budget, then life will get more expensive in that regard, and as there's no clear sign the VAT envy move on independent schools will be net positive for the Treasury, it may happen. The alternative for Starmer is to trash Blair's education mantra further by diluting the same state school gruel to stretch it out even thinner over more pupils.

[NerveAgent]

“Life will get more expensive for a handful of people who probably vote Tory anyway” is probably a better way of putting it. It’s pretty irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

[Sway]

Mr Penguin said:

Their plans are listed here: https://www.bmj.com/content/381/bmj.p943

I think Wes Streeting has good ideas, whether he can get them past the unions and work with the civil service to refine them to actually deal with all the complexities of the NHS while running the day to day operations in a climate where there really is no money is a completely different question.

If he fails to get them through, I don't think anyone should hold it against him - it's a staggeringly huge task. Ken Clarke said the BMA were the toughest opponents he ever had to deal with.

Once again focusing on the wrong things...

Waiting times as KPIs are nonsense. What's the value in hitting a 'you've been seen in two weeks, tick' when that appointment was actually completely useless?

Not a single KPI/OKR relating to outcomes. Only satisfaction. Difficult to be dissatisfied on a survey if you're dead.

I can't find it anymore, but Seddon did an amazing bit of NHS data mining relating to the 'A&E 4hr promise' from Blair.
Firstly, it increased average waiting times - where before some minor cases would indeed be waiting 'forever', it shifted to effectively no one being seen for three hours and 45 minutes - then a mad scramble to admit if it can't be easily treated. Increasing demand elsewhere in the very same system. The really interesting bit was how many months the target had been hit under a Labour government - and how the very first month of Cameron's coalition it was missed. Despite absolutely nothing changing on the ground...

[General Price]

bhstewie said:

Quite.

No issue with people who choose to send their children to private schools.

But they're also a long way down my list of people who I'm going to be losing too much sleep over.

We all know the left hate wealthy folks even though they still expect them to pay for everything.