Trade rates experience
Discussion
Countdown said:
I'm not sure that's the case to be honest (or maybe it varies by region). My mate was a Gas Engineer for BG, his salary was £35k and the targets were ridiculous (this was back when they were striking). he works for a Housing Association now - same salary, far less pressure.
Certainly round here it’s currently 40k +ote which would take you to 48 for someone completely fresh. Housing association work is notoriously a different kettle of fish as they can all get away with taking ages to do the most half arsed job all day every day…. Some people love it and if that’s for them then why not
. I actually think self employed 60k vs housing association 35k is quite a tough decision when you factor in you’ll be home by lunchtime everyday.Black_S3 said:
That is not far from the reality for many of the trades if someone is going through the door without an introduction.
Gas and electrical is certainly different with British gas starting newly qualified engineers on 48k including bonus…. While good old Pimlico plumbers claim potential earnings of 120k for Gas or 100k for electricians - read that how you may - it’s certainly not a 120k payee job being offered but it’s a world away from 30k and barely arguably better than earning 60k self employed . Plenty of smart meter installer jobs with salaries ranging 40-65k.
Is that all? It's over 20 years since I dipped my toes in that sordid kind of industry but the potential then was several grand a week... And that was when jobs on the cards told you 20k was high life and site work only nudged £100/day.Gas and electrical is certainly different with British gas starting newly qualified engineers on 48k including bonus…. While good old Pimlico plumbers claim potential earnings of 120k for Gas or 100k for electricians - read that how you may - it’s certainly not a 120k payee job being offered but it’s a world away from 30k and barely arguably better than earning 60k self employed
. Plenty of smart meter installer jobs with salaries ranging 40-65k.Teddy Lop said:
Black_S3 said:
That is not far from the reality for many of the trades if someone is going through the door without an introduction.
Gas and electrical is certainly different with British gas starting newly qualified engineers on 48k including bonus…. While good old Pimlico plumbers claim potential earnings of 120k for Gas or 100k for electricians - read that how you may - it’s certainly not a 120k payee job being offered but it’s a world away from 30k and barely arguably better than earning 60k self employed . Plenty of smart meter installer jobs with salaries ranging 40-65k.
Is that all? It's over 20 years since I dipped my toes in that sordid kind of industry but the potential then was several grand a week... And that was when jobs on the cards told you 20k was high life and site work only nudged £100/day.Gas and electrical is certainly different with British gas starting newly qualified engineers on 48k including bonus…. While good old Pimlico plumbers claim potential earnings of 120k for Gas or 100k for electricians - read that how you may - it’s certainly not a 120k payee job being offered but it’s a world away from 30k and barely arguably better than earning 60k self employed
. Plenty of smart meter installer jobs with salaries ranging 40-65k. it’s like you couldn’t make it up! The big guys that actually rip off both customers and employees get the good rep while the smaller lot who come in with the most competitive prices get called rip off artists.there are too many people who were pushed into unproductive type jobs, going to uni was a must, very few learnt a trade.
Now those who got dirty hands are milking it, and why not. Others have for years, why should a person who is a solicitor get paid 10x the person who fixes a car/builds houses etc. Both are needed, and both take years to learn.
Now those who got dirty hands are milking it, and why not. Others have for years, why should a person who is a solicitor get paid 10x the person who fixes a car/builds houses etc. Both are needed, and both take years to learn.
richhead said:
there are too many people who were pushed into unproductive type jobs, going to uni was a must, very few learnt a trade.
Now those who got dirty hands are milking it, and why not. Others have for years, why should a person who is a solicitor get paid 10x the person who fixes a car/builds houses etc. Both are needed, and both take years to learn.
It's not just that, it's also that the economy changing more towards service jobs has meant that more and more people grow up without anyone to teach them practical skills; if you can't do it yourself and it needs to be done, there is no ceiling price where it makes sense to take time off work to fix stuff yourself.Now those who got dirty hands are milking it, and why not. Others have for years, why should a person who is a solicitor get paid 10x the person who fixes a car/builds houses etc. Both are needed, and both take years to learn.
The market for paying people to do things that people would have just sorted themselves years back has grown, then on top of that the Uni thing has encouraged people that would have filled that demand to go and sit in front of a computer instead, supply vs demand has kicked in and now it costs a lot to get anything done.
richhead said:
there are too many people who were pushed into unproductive type jobs, going to uni was a must, very few learnt a trade.
Now those who got dirty hands are milking it, and why not. Others have for years, why should a person who is a solicitor get paid 10x the person who fixes a car/builds houses etc. Both are needed, and both take years to learn.
Apples and pears. Now those who got dirty hands are milking it, and why not. Others have for years, why should a person who is a solicitor get paid 10x the person who fixes a car/builds houses etc. Both are needed, and both take years to learn.
Putting aside my defence of trade rates, I wouldn’t want a decorator to handle a £2m property purchase but I wouldn’t be averse to a solicitor painting my front lounge.
The guy who fixed my boiler leak has just given me his bill. It was probably 7 hours in total over 2 days involving
Taking up the laminate flooring and floorboards
Getting under the floor and locating leak
Taking up the laminate flooring/floorboards at the other end of the hallway
Sending me a video of the leak
Removing and replacing faulty valve
Replacing all floorboarding so you can hardly tell it's been removed
All for less than £200 including parts.
For clarification I think he massively under-prices himself - his work is exceptional, he's one of the most trustworthy blokes I've come across and he's always busy. I genuinely don't know why he doesn't put his prices up
Taking up the laminate flooring and floorboards
Getting under the floor and locating leak
Taking up the laminate flooring/floorboards at the other end of the hallway
Sending me a video of the leak
Removing and replacing faulty valve
Replacing all floorboarding so you can hardly tell it's been removed
All for less than £200 including parts.
For clarification I think he massively under-prices himself - his work is exceptional, he's one of the most trustworthy blokes I've come across and he's always busy. I genuinely don't know why he doesn't put his prices up
Countdown said:
The guy who fixed my boiler leak has just given me his bill. It was probably 7 hours in total over 2 days involving
Taking up the laminate flooring and floorboards
Getting under the floor and locating leak
Taking up the laminate flooring/floorboards at the other end of the hallway
Sending me a video of the leak
Removing and replacing faulty valve
Replacing all floorboarding so you can hardly tell it's been removed
All for less than £200 including parts.
For clarification I think he massively under-prices himself - his work is exceptional, he's one of the most trustworthy blokes I've come across and he's always busy. I genuinely don't know why he doesn't put his prices up
Pay him what you think he is worth then. A small bonus for him will be remembered.Taking up the laminate flooring and floorboards
Getting under the floor and locating leak
Taking up the laminate flooring/floorboards at the other end of the hallway
Sending me a video of the leak
Removing and replacing faulty valve
Replacing all floorboarding so you can hardly tell it's been removed
All for less than £200 including parts.
For clarification I think he massively under-prices himself - his work is exceptional, he's one of the most trustworthy blokes I've come across and he's always busy. I genuinely don't know why he doesn't put his prices up
Is there a reason so many of these guys are so utterly s
t at responding to communications?
Got a guy quoting on a bathroom, nice bloke did the current bathroom, five grands worth of work and several days later having visited to check the job there's still no quote.
Two separate guys who came round to quote on supplying and fitting an outside door same thing lovely guys "I'll get the numbers across to you in a day or two" and a week later absolute fk all.
I'm not even looking for full written detailed quotes here just a bloody WhatsApp saying "XYZ for the door" would be a bonus.
What am I missing with these people?
t at responding to communications?Got a guy quoting on a bathroom, nice bloke did the current bathroom, five grands worth of work and several days later having visited to check the job there's still no quote.
Two separate guys who came round to quote on supplying and fitting an outside door same thing lovely guys "I'll get the numbers across to you in a day or two" and a week later absolute f
k all.I'm not even looking for full written detailed quotes here just a bloody WhatsApp saying "XYZ for the door" would be a bonus.
What am I missing with these people?
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Is there a reason so many of these guys are so utterly st at responding to communications?
Got a guy quoting on a bathroom, nice bloke did the current bathroom, five grands worth of work and several days later having visited to check the job there's still no quote.
Two separate guys who came round to quote on supplying and fitting an outside door same thing lovely guys "I'll get the numbers across to you in a day or two" and a week later absolute fk all.
I'm not even looking for full written detailed quotes here just a bloody WhatsApp saying "XYZ for the door" would be a bonus.
What am I missing with these people?
According to some on here, their “Derren Brown” intuition has identified you as a wrong un! t at responding to communications?Got a guy quoting on a bathroom, nice bloke did the current bathroom, five grands worth of work and several days later having visited to check the job there's still no quote.
Two separate guys who came round to quote on supplying and fitting an outside door same thing lovely guys "I'll get the numbers across to you in a day or two" and a week later absolute f
k all.I'm not even looking for full written detailed quotes here just a bloody WhatsApp saying "XYZ for the door" would be a bonus.
What am I missing with these people?
Kwackersaki said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Is there a reason so many of these guys are so utterly st at responding to communications?
Got a guy quoting on a bathroom, nice bloke did the current bathroom, five grands worth of work and several days later having visited to check the job there's still no quote.
Two separate guys who came round to quote on supplying and fitting an outside door same thing lovely guys "I'll get the numbers across to you in a day or two" and a week later absolute fk all.
I'm not even looking for full written detailed quotes here just a bloody WhatsApp saying "XYZ for the door" would be a bonus.
What am I missing with these people?
According to some on here, their “Derren Brown” intuition has identified you as a wrong un! t at responding to communications?Got a guy quoting on a bathroom, nice bloke did the current bathroom, five grands worth of work and several days later having visited to check the job there's still no quote.
Two separate guys who came round to quote on supplying and fitting an outside door same thing lovely guys "I'll get the numbers across to you in a day or two" and a week later absolute f
k all.I'm not even looking for full written detailed quotes here just a bloody WhatsApp saying "XYZ for the door" would be a bonus.
What am I missing with these people?
k it, that persons never going to use me for the actual work now so I’ll not waste my time trying.I’ve only had it 2 or 3 times that the initial contact has been enough to put me off even quoting for a customer and those times they were genuine weapons grades dick heads doing things like complaining about the hourly rate but still wanting to book in or complaining about a potential diagnostic visit being a scam because they’d be getting charged a 2nd visit for me to come back with parts.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Is there a reason so many of these guys are so utterly st at responding to communications?
Got a guy quoting on a bathroom, nice bloke did the current bathroom, five grands worth of work and several days later having visited to check the job there's still no quote.
Two separate guys who came round to quote on supplying and fitting an outside door same thing lovely guys "I'll get the numbers across to you in a day or two" and a week later absolute fk all.
I'm not even looking for full written detailed quotes here just a bloody WhatsApp saying "XYZ for the door" would be a bonus.
What am I missing with these people?
I think some of them just like being chased. They'll never get the jobs without pricing. t at responding to communications?Got a guy quoting on a bathroom, nice bloke did the current bathroom, five grands worth of work and several days later having visited to check the job there's still no quote.
Two separate guys who came round to quote on supplying and fitting an outside door same thing lovely guys "I'll get the numbers across to you in a day or two" and a week later absolute f
k all.I'm not even looking for full written detailed quotes here just a bloody WhatsApp saying "XYZ for the door" would be a bonus.
What am I missing with these people?
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I'm not even looking for full written detailed quotes here just a bloody WhatsApp saying "XYZ for the door" would be a bonus.
I always try to at least send a message within a week saying something like: "you're looking at around £200k for the door and I should be able to get to you late spring 2028. If that's ok, let me know and I'll send a more detailed quote as soon as I can".Gives me a bit of wiggle room and lets the customer know you've not forgotten and roughly what to expect.
And that's all I want to be honest.
If they don't want the job that's fine just tell me.
If they can't do the job for six months that's fine just tell me.
But don't come out within a day or so of being asked if they can quote and be nice as pie and tell me they'll send me pricing and then disappear off the face of the earth that's just a waste of everyones time.
I don't know if they're completely incapable of organising their lives or if the mentality is that there's just so much work that basic customer service skills and manners aren't needed right now but if that's the case now it won't always be that way.
I just don't get it
If they don't want the job that's fine just tell me.
If they can't do the job for six months that's fine just tell me.
But don't come out within a day or so of being asked if they can quote and be nice as pie and tell me they'll send me pricing and then disappear off the face of the earth that's just a waste of everyones time.
I don't know if they're completely incapable of organising their lives or if the mentality is that there's just so much work that basic customer service skills and manners aren't needed right now but if that's the case now it won't always be that way.
I just don't get it
You won’t ever get it. A normal logical person with a level of emotional intelligence and ability to communicate and organise themselves will never be able to work out how many tradespeople operate. It isn’t possible, they’re just different, from what I’ve seen.
The best builder I’ve ever used is a 65 year old English bloke who has a house in France so only is here for a few months a year. He does what he says he will do. He doesn’t bullst. He arrives on time. He can communicate. It’s all just exactly how I’d expect any other transaction to be. But it’s so shocking because it’s so rare.
I’m viewing a house tomorrow that needs a fair bit of work, it’s in a very affluent part of London which I already know will have a tax put on it, I have neither the time or inclination to even go through the process of finding someone who isn’t a complete let down - but what choice do I have. In half tempted to ask the old bloke if he fancies one last job because I just cannot bear dealing with getting people in.
I actually saw this in the making - I stupidly thought about becoming an electrician 20 years ago, I joined Basingstoke college of technology having left a normal 6th form and it was like going back to year 8- 9 at school, about 13/14 years old vs the 16-17 we actually were - genuinely shocking.
The best builder I’ve ever used is a 65 year old English bloke who has a house in France so only is here for a few months a year. He does what he says he will do. He doesn’t bulls
t. He arrives on time. He can communicate. It’s all just exactly how I’d expect any other transaction to be. But it’s so shocking because it’s so rare. I’m viewing a house tomorrow that needs a fair bit of work, it’s in a very affluent part of London which I already know will have a tax put on it, I have neither the time or inclination to even go through the process of finding someone who isn’t a complete let down - but what choice do I have. In half tempted to ask the old bloke if he fancies one last job because I just cannot bear dealing with getting people in.
I actually saw this in the making - I stupidly thought about becoming an electrician 20 years ago, I joined Basingstoke college of technology having left a normal 6th form and it was like going back to year 8- 9 at school, about 13/14 years old vs the 16-17 we actually were - genuinely shocking.
Edited by okgo on Thursday 2nd May 23:51
Edited by okgo on Thursday 2nd May 23:52
okgo said:
I actually saw this in the making - I stupidly thought about becoming an electrician 20 years ago, I joined Basingstoke college of technology having left a normal 6th form and it was like going back to year 8- 9 at school, about 13/14 years old vs the 16-17 we actually were - genuinely shocking.
This is very true. The education system reaps what it sows. Most/many trade jobs out-earn most teachers jobs but the kids that have dome smarts about them rarely get directed towards the trades at school.
Comments like “why shouldn’t they earn good money” actually read like the words of a 1970s trade union leader. I don’t think anyone is suggesting trades shouldn’t earn good money for doing a good job. I love seeing immaculate copper pipework or a beautifully plastered and decorated wall. Good tradespeople should be referred to as craftspeople.
However, I’ve had quite a lot of exposure to both residential and commercial property recently and I can’t remember looking at anyone’s work and thinking “that’s a good job”. Everything is done in a way that is easiest for the tradesperson to do. It’s up to code but you know that if they were involved in building their forever home there is no way they’d do it that way.
But there are other negative consequences to charging historically high prices. Traditional blue collar work affects everything we do. Whether it’s a basic bathroom refit or building a new housing estate or factory, the high prices push up household and business costs which lead to higher wage demands and higher prices. Is the nurse who’s been charged £8000 to fit a £2000 bathroom going to push for a large, taxpayer-funded payrise? You betcha. And next time you pop into a recently renovated coffee shop and £20 doesn’t buy a latte and a sarnie for you and your partner you’ll know why.
Tradespeople aren’t the only people playing this game, but it’s a game we all lose in the end.
However, I’ve had quite a lot of exposure to both residential and commercial property recently and I can’t remember looking at anyone’s work and thinking “that’s a good job”. Everything is done in a way that is easiest for the tradesperson to do. It’s up to code but you know that if they were involved in building their forever home there is no way they’d do it that way.
But there are other negative consequences to charging historically high prices. Traditional blue collar work affects everything we do. Whether it’s a basic bathroom refit or building a new housing estate or factory, the high prices push up household and business costs which lead to higher wage demands and higher prices. Is the nurse who’s been charged £8000 to fit a £2000 bathroom going to push for a large, taxpayer-funded payrise? You betcha. And next time you pop into a recently renovated coffee shop and £20 doesn’t buy a latte and a sarnie for you and your partner you’ll know why.
Tradespeople aren’t the only people playing this game, but it’s a game we all lose in the end.
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