Why is it all focussed on calories and not carbs?
Discussion
Eat plenty of vegetables in a range of colours, eat meat and fish, a bit of fruit, a variety of nuts and seeds, go easy on the starch, go very easy on the sugar, soft drinks and booze, drink plenty of water. Avoid heavily processed foods.
Don't eat too much (you don't need food weighing scales for that) and don't snack between meals.
It's not complicated, although many people may find it difficult.
Don't eat too much (you don't need food weighing scales for that) and don't snack between meals.
It's not complicated, although many people may find it difficult.
MC Bodge said:
Eat plenty of vegetables in a range of colours, eat meat and fish, a bit of fruit, a variety of nuts and seeds, go easy on the starch, go very easy on the sugar, soft drinks and booze, drink plenty of water. Avoid heavily processed foods.
Don't eat too much (you don't need food weighing scales for that) and don't snack between meals.
It's not complicated, although many people may find it difficult.
Typically this is the view of someone who finds it easy to manage their food intake and keep their weight down.Don't eat too much (you don't need food weighing scales for that) and don't snack between meals.
It's not complicated, although many people may find it difficult.
For a lot (most?) people they need guidance and for a lot of people a regime / method.
If you are trying to lose weight, you pretty much always end up at the same place - cut out booze, starchy and sugary foods and eat less and try to get more exercise.
Whether you use calories, no carbs, starvation or the cabbage diet etc, the end result is that if you eat less calories than you expend you will lose weight.
Everything else is focussed on managing appetite, hunger and ensuring you can keep with whatever programme you are on for long enough for it to get you where you want to go.
Burrow01 said:
Typically this is the view of someone who finds it easy to manage their food intake and keep their weight down.
No, fatties are not hard done by, they are overweight because they enjoy their food more than is sensible. It's not that everyone else "finds it easy", believe me, they don't.MC Bodge said:
Eat plenty of vegetables in a range of colours, eat meat and fish, a bit of fruit, a variety of nuts and seeds, go easy on the starch, go very easy on the sugar, soft drinks and booze, drink plenty of water. Avoid heavily processed foods.
Don't eat too much (you don't need food weighing scales for that) and don't snack between meals.
It's not complicated, although many people may find it difficult.
Precisely - falls into the 'simple but not easy' descriptionDon't eat too much (you don't need food weighing scales for that) and don't snack between meals.
It's not complicated, although many people may find it difficult.
I think for a lot of people they haven't twigged the relationship between firstly UPFs and overconsumption and secondly the poor nutritional/satiety bang for buck and rebound hunger associated with refined carbs. This is where, for some, tracking can be quite educational. We're also totally out of whack on portion sizes so weighing helps with that.
It's much easier to follow a healthy diet if you enjoy sourcing food (whether shopping, gardening, foraging, fishing or shooting) and cooking it.
80/20 is another useful concept if it all seems too hard. 21 meals a week gives you 16 or 17 'good' and 4 or 5 'bad' meals to enjoy.
MC Bodge said:
Eat plenty of vegetables in a range of colours, eat meat and fish, a bit of fruit, a variety of nuts and seeds, go easy on the starch, go very easy on the sugar, soft drinks and booze, drink plenty of water. Avoid heavily processed foods.
Don't eat too much (you don't need food weighing scales for that) and don't snack between meals.
It's not complicated, although many people may find it difficult.
Don't eat too much (you don't need food weighing scales for that) and don't snack between meals.
It's not complicated, although many people may find it difficult.
I would describe that as "Eat better not less" to those not very interested in macros. Those more technically minded can calculate P:E or other.
It really is something that some people really have a hard time grasping the concept of what to put in their mouths, one thing is certain, a vast majority of people bs themselves on their total caloric intake, that bag of crisps or the biscuits they had with their takeout coffee, was on a ferry on the way to France the other day and it’s amazing to watch people chomp through the whole voyage, incredible sat there chomping the whole time.
oddman said:
biggbn said:
Different carbs burn at a different rate due to their glycemic index, so the energy release is dependent on their level of 'burn' from memory. I'm sure things like white rice, potatoes etc have a high glycemic index whilst less refined foods like legumes, raw veg etc burn slowly. Brown bread, wholemeal etc and brown rice also 'burn' slower, and as a result your blood sugar level remains more stable...again, all this is from memory of reading various 'muscle magazines' many, many years ago so might be total BS!!
It's not how quickly they burn, it's how quickly they are absorbed. Carbohydrates are absorbed as monosaccharides such as glucose because larger molecules (even sucrose) cannot cross the gut wall. Glycaemic index is a measure of availability and a proxy for how much a given load of said carbohydate will spike inulin. insulin spikes are thought to lead to drops in blood sugar and drive further hunger AKA Chinese meal effect. It's also the reason why sugar is described as 'addictive'.Sugar is a disaccharide of glucose and fructose and therefore only one chemical bond needs to be broken to be absorbed. Simple and refined carbohydates have high levels of starch which is a polysaccharide, several bonds need to be broken to make them available for absorption. So the structure of the starch within the food product can determine how quickly it is absorbed
A carb product which has a fine cellular structure like french bread can be broken into its constituent monosaccharides in the mouth by salivary amylase hence the availability of sugars in baguette means it has a similar GI to table sugar.
A wholemeal loaf which is still bread and has a similar macro profile has the carbs available in a less soluble structure and in larger paticles of grain so although having the same profile of macronutrients. Has a lower glycaemic index than a baguette but still relatively high.
Pasta mashed potatoes and rice all have high GI
Fruit is still pretty much 100% carb and does contain fructose but is more complex in structure so as long as it's not dried or very wet and high sugar like pineapple, fruit is generally lower GI than refined carbs.
Veg, again pretty much 100% carb but much less free sugar, plenty of cellulose (can't be digensted by humans) also rich in phytochemicals (good). Tend to be lower still in GI.
When a mixed meal is chewed, the other components such as fat and protein can 'cloak' the high GI components in the slurry, slowing the absorption. So there is a bit of sense in 'eat your meat or you won't get any pudding'
The other thing to be considered is satiety index. This is an arbitrary scale where white bread is rated as 100% and other food such as croissants are less satisfying and other foods such as baked potato are more satisfying/filling.
Knowing the glycaemic and satiety indices of what you are eating gives you a clue as to how soon you'll be hungry. Consumption of high GI carbs is clearly unlikely to be a significant part of weight control (with the exception of fuelling and refuelling exercise sessions) but are relatively benign compared with Ultra Processed Foods which sit apart in the way they are designed (including the packaging and the sound they make before they enter the mouth) to the precise ratios of refined carb and fats which humans seem programmed to consume to excess. Think pizzas, chips, pies, donuts. They all combine high GI starch with fats and either sugar a salt to create a high palatability low satiety product. Think of the the usual buffet - it would be easy to consume your daily calorie allowance in minutes and still feel like you want more.
There's an increasing recognition that successful weight loss and maintaining healthy weight and good nutrition is about achieving a calorie deficit/balance through appetite management rather than restriction. Hunger is a fundamental drive and is different to managing cravings for alcohol, nicotine etc. Trying to limit calorie intake without paying careful attention to the nutritional and filling qualities of what we're eating is a fool's errand becuase we'll get intolerably hungry and break restrictions sooner or later.
Thanks for your informative postMC Bodge said:
Eat plenty of vegetables in a range of colours, eat meat and fish, a bit of fruit, a variety of nuts and seeds, go easy on the starch, go very easy on the sugar, soft drinks and booze, drink plenty of water. Avoid heavily processed foods.
Don't eat too much (you don't need food weighing scales for that) and don't snack between meals.
It's not complicated, although many people may find it difficult.
Grandmother test for food.Don't eat too much (you don't need food weighing scales for that) and don't snack between meals.
It's not complicated, although many people may find it difficult.
Burrow01 said:
MC Bodge said:
Eat plenty of vegetables in a range of colours, eat meat and fish, a bit of fruit, a variety of nuts and seeds, go easy on the starch, go very easy on the sugar, soft drinks and booze, drink plenty of water. Avoid heavily processed foods.
Don't eat too much (you don't need food weighing scales for that) and don't snack between meals.
It's not complicated, although many people may find it difficult.
Typically this is the view of someone who finds it easy to manage their food intake and keep their weight down.Don't eat too much (you don't need food weighing scales for that) and don't snack between meals.
It's not complicated, although many people may find it difficult.
For a lot (most?) people they need guidance and for a lot of people a regime / method.
If you are trying to lose weight, you pretty much always end up at the same place - cut out booze, starchy and sugary foods and eat less and try to get more exercise.
Whether you use calories, no carbs, starvation or the cabbage diet etc, the end result is that if you eat less calories than you expend you will lose weight.
Everything else is focussed on managing appetite, hunger and ensuring you can keep with whatever programme you are on for long enough for it to get you where you want to go.
There is a reason why people end up at the same place with regards to the solution, no matter what contrived route they take in getting there.
mcelliott said:
It really is something that some people really have a hard time grasping the concept of what to put in their mouths, one thing is certain, a vast majority of people bs themselves on their total caloric intake, that bag of crisps or the biscuits they had with their takeout coffee, was on a ferry on the way to France the other day and it’s amazing to watch people chomp through the whole voyage, incredible sat there chomping the whole time.
I have noticed similar. Snacks and seemingly continuous "treats".If people do not do this, almost all of them (yes, a teeny, tiny proportion might be "big-boned" or have some rare illness...) will not be as heavy, but it could be a difficult habit to break.
I am presumably a bit odd. Feeling fit and healthy gives me more pleasure than chomping on bags of sweets and cakes throughout the day.
Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 2nd May 17:26
MC Bodge said:
mcelliott said:
It really is something that some people really have a hard time grasping the concept of what to put in their mouths, one thing is certain, a vast majority of people bs themselves on their total caloric intake, that bag of crisps or the biscuits they had with their takeout coffee, was on a ferry on the way to France the other day and it’s amazing to watch people chomp through the whole voyage, incredible sat there chomping the whole time.
I have noticed similar. Snacks and seemingly continuous "treats".If people do not do this, almost all of them (yes, a teeny, tiny proportion might be "big-boned" or have some rare illness...) will not be as heavy, but it could be a difficult habit to break.
I am presumably a bit odd. Feeling fit and healthy gives me more pleasure than chomping on bags of sweets and cakes throughout the day.
Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 2nd May 17:26
TheThing said:
I share both of your views. I rarely eat anything processed, train a minimum of four times a week and ruck 3 miles every day on my lunch break. I am indeed looked at as odd by the people that sit there stuffing donuts down their necks like there is no tomorrow. That's fine by me.
It doesn't necessarily require such dedication, but I take your point.MC Bodge said:
mcelliott said:
It really is something that some people really have a hard time grasping the concept of what to put in their mouths, one thing is certain, a vast majority of people bs themselves on their total caloric intake, that bag of crisps or the biscuits they had with their takeout coffee, was on a ferry on the way to France the other day and it’s amazing to watch people chomp through the whole voyage, incredible sat there chomping the whole time.
I have noticed similar. Snacks and seemingly continuous "treats".If people do not do this, almost all of them (yes, a teeny, tiny proportion might be "big-boned" or have some rare illness...) will not be as heavy, but it could be a difficult habit to break.
I am presumably a bit odd. Feeling fit and healthy gives me more pleasure than chomping on bags of sweets and cakes throughout the day.
Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 2nd May 17:26
Just because you can eat it doesn't mean it's food.
MC Bodge said:
mcelliott said:
It really is something that some people really have a hard time grasping the concept of what to put in their mouths, one thing is certain, a vast majority of people bs themselves on their total caloric intake, that bag of crisps or the biscuits they had with their takeout coffee, was on a ferry on the way to France the other day and it’s amazing to watch people chomp through the whole voyage, incredible sat there chomping the whole time.
I have noticed similar. Snacks and seemingly continuous "treats".If people do not do this, almost all of them (yes, a teeny, tiny proportion might be "big-boned" or have some rare illness...) will not be as heavy, but it could be a difficult habit to break.
I am presumably a bit odd. Feeling fit and healthy gives me more pleasure than chomping on bags of sweets and cakes throughout the day.
Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 2nd May 17:26
Part of the problem is that people yelling at fat folk to put down the fork is humiliating and demoralising.
JerseyRoyal said:
I was just pointing out that it’s not rare for people to have conditions that make it hard to manage their weight.
It’s easy to say it’s as simple as putting down the fork when you don’t know what you’re talking about.
On the other hand, it is very common for a very poor diet and a lack of movement to lead to weight and health problems.It’s easy to say it’s as simple as putting down the fork when you don’t know what you’re talking about.
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