Adrian Newey to Ferrari? Is it possible?

[Forester1965]

TheDeuce said:

Mercedes or Ferrari are more likely that RBR to get the new PU right first time.

I thought a decent chunk of the brains behind the 2014 Mercedes PU were now working for RBPT?

[TheDeuce]

Forester1965 said:

TheDeuce said:

Mercedes or Ferrari are more likely that RBR to get the new PU right first time.

I thought a decent chunk of the brains behind the 2014 Mercedes PU were now working for RBPT?

They are. But there's a core of people and learning/experience at Mercs outfit that have a decades worth of experience at this stage - and so long as as the PU carries a Merc badge, then MB/AMG will support it's technical development any way possible.

Tough to beat the success of a manufacturer tied PU development outfit. Obviously RBPT have fairly recently been supported by Honda still, but I'm thinking Honda have given no input into the 2026 design since they're building their own as a competitor now.

Of course I'm only talking about the relative likelihood of success, it's always possible there's a surprise winner each time there's a PU shake up. But weighing it all up, a new PU from effectively a new development team and also no more Adrian Newey? I think Max I'll be gone at least by 2026.

[732NM]

Forester1965 said:

thought a decent chunk of the brains behind the 2014 Mercedes PU were now working for RBPT?

The bloke who sorted the Honda is ex Mercedes.

[marine boy]

732NM said:

The bloke who sorted the Honda is ex Mercedes.

What is his name?

[suffolk009]

TheDeuce said:

Forester1965 said:

TheDeuce said:

Mercedes or Ferrari are more likely that RBR to get the new PU right first time.

I thought a decent chunk of the brains behind the 2014 Mercedes PU were now working for RBPT?

They are. But there's a core of people and learning/experience at Mercs outfit that have a decades worth of experience at this stage - and so long as as the PU carries a Merc badge, then MB/AMG will support it's technical development any way possible.

Tough to beat the success of a manufacturer tied PU development outfit. Obviously RBPT have fairly recently been supported by Honda still, but I'm thinking Honda have given no input into the 2026 design since they're building their own as a competitor now.

Of course I'm only talking about the relative likelihood of success, it's always possible there's a surprise winner each time there's a PU shake up. But weighing it all up, a new PU from effectively a new development team and also no more Adrian Newey? I think Max I'll be gone at least by 2026.

There will be a few senior staff at RBR/RBPT that will choose to stay, take a promotion and pay rise. But many will already be talking to the recruiters and seeing if there's anywhere else for them at another team. And they won't hang around, because there won't be enough vacancies at top teams to go around.

The only way for RBR to go from here is down. History shows us that no team stays at the top for very long. By the start of 2026 RBR will like have won four on the trot, only Merc have done a little better in recent history.

[TikTak]

TheDeuce said:

Forester1965 said:

TheDeuce said:

Mercedes or Ferrari are more likely that RBR to get the new PU right first time.

I thought a decent chunk of the brains behind the 2014 Mercedes PU were now working for RBPT?

They are. But there's a core of people and learning/experience at Mercs outfit that have a decades worth of experience at this stage - and so long as as the PU carries a Merc badge, then MB/AMG will support it's technical development any way possible.

Tough to beat the success of a manufacturer tied PU development outfit. Obviously RBPT have fairly recently been supported by Honda still, but I'm thinking Honda have given no input into the 2026 design since they're building their own as a competitor now.

Of course I'm only talking about the relative likelihood of success, it's always possible there's a surprise winner each time there's a PU shake up. But weighing it all up, a new PU from effectively a new development team and also no more Adrian Newey? I think Max I'll be gone at least by 2026.

I mean I don't disagree that Max may have moved on by that point, he's been in the RBR circle for a long time. 2026 will all be fairly new to everyone including RBPT new look, but I wouldn't discount Ford's F1 abilities or racing pedigree either.

The PU seems to be the lesser of areas to get right these days anyway (providing they can provide reliability) with the aero aspect seemingly the key. Then again the early reports saying the 2026 cars are 'undrivable', who knows what yet may change or who will get the jump?

[Leithen]

Forester1965 said:

TheDeuce said:

Mercedes or Ferrari are more likely that RBR to get the new PU right first time.

I thought a decent chunk of the brains behind the 2014 Mercedes PU were now working for RBPT?

What’s Andy Cowell up to these days? Hope he doesn’t take a Tuscan holiday in the next few months. The hullabaloo would be hilarious.

[Deesee]

Leithen said:

Forester1965 said:

TheDeuce said:

Mercedes or Ferrari are more likely that RBR to get the new PU right first time.

I thought a decent chunk of the brains behind the 2014 Mercedes PU were now working for RBPT?

What’s Andy Cowell up to these days? Hope he doesn’t take a Tuscan holiday in the next few months. The hullabaloo would be hilarious.

It would practically be the avengers assembling.

[Muzzer79]

suffolk009 said:

There will be a few senior staff at RBR/RBPT that will choose to stay, take a promotion and pay rise. But many will already be talking to the recruiters and seeing if there's anywhere else for them at another team. And they won't hang around, because there won't be enough vacancies at top teams to go around.

The only way for RBR to go from here is down. History shows us that no team stays at the top for very long. By the start of 2026 RBR will like have won four on the trot, only Merc have done a little better in recent history.

I've long been an advocate on these pages that success is cyclical and I 100% agree that RBR's domination won't last forever. I still maintain that.

But I think it's a little too simplistic to think it all revolves around Newey and Verstappen. It's a strong team, with plenty of depth.

It's very unstable at the moment, but they have just as much chance as anyone at nailing 2026 if they re-structure quickly and properly. One might even argue that, with the advantage they have, they can pour more focus into the new rules than anyone else.......

[suffolk009]

Muzzer79 said:

suffolk009 said:

There will be a few senior staff at RBR/RBPT that will choose to stay, take a promotion and pay rise. But many will already be talking to the recruiters and seeing if there's anywhere else for them at another team. And they won't hang around, because there won't be enough vacancies at top teams to go around.

The only way for RBR to go from here is down. History shows us that no team stays at the top for very long. By the start of 2026 RBR will like have won four on the trot, only Merc have done a little better in recent history.

I've long been an advocate on these pages that success is cyclical and I 100% agree that RBR's domination won't last forever. I still maintain that.

But I think it's a little too simplistic to think it all revolves around Newey and Verstappen. It's a strong team, with plenty of depth.

It's very unstable at the moment, but they have just as much chance as anyone at nailing 2026 if they re-structure quickly and properly. One might even argue that, with the advantage they have, they can pour more focus into the new rules than anyone else.......

"...if they re-structure quickly and properly"

IF.

As the great Murray said, "'if' is F1 spelt backwards".

[Sandpit Steve]

Deesee said:

Leithen said:

Forester1965 said:

TheDeuce said:

Mercedes or Ferrari are more likely that RBR to get the new PU right first time.

I thought a decent chunk of the brains behind the 2014 Mercedes PU were now working for RBPT?

What’s Andy Cowell up to these days? Hope he doesn’t take a Tuscan holiday in the next few months. The hullabaloo would be hilarious.

It would practically be the avengers assembling.

I’m not sure we’ve heard anything from Cowell at all, since he hung up his Mercedes shirt a couple of years back.

If he turns up at Maranello with Newey and Hamilton, then Fred Vasseur is going to be in line for whatever is the Italian version of an honorary knighthood. Talk about a dream team.

[TheDeuce]

Sandpit Steve said:

Deesee said:

Leithen said:

Forester1965 said:

TheDeuce said:

Mercedes or Ferrari are more likely that RBR to get the new PU right first time.

I thought a decent chunk of the brains behind the 2014 Mercedes PU were now working for RBPT?

What’s Andy Cowell up to these days? Hope he doesn’t take a Tuscan holiday in the next few months. The hullabaloo would be hilarious.

It would practically be the avengers assembling.

I’m not sure we’ve heard anything from Cowell at all, since he hung up his Mercedes shirt a couple of years back.

If he turns up at Maranello with Newey and Hamilton, then Fred Vasseur is going to be in line for whatever is the Italian version of an honorary knighthood. Talk about a dream team.

A bit like Ferrari's last period of success, a dream team assembled to make it so.

The only frustration for Ferrari is that the right people never seem to be Italian..

[TheDeuce]

suffolk009 said:

Muzzer79 said:

suffolk009 said:

There will be a few senior staff at RBR/RBPT that will choose to stay, take a promotion and pay rise. But many will already be talking to the recruiters and seeing if there's anywhere else for them at another team. And they won't hang around, because there won't be enough vacancies at top teams to go around.

The only way for RBR to go from here is down. History shows us that no team stays at the top for very long. By the start of 2026 RBR will like have won four on the trot, only Merc have done a little better in recent history.

I've long been an advocate on these pages that success is cyclical and I 100% agree that RBR's domination won't last forever. I still maintain that.

But I think it's a little too simplistic to think it all revolves around Newey and Verstappen. It's a strong team, with plenty of depth.

It's very unstable at the moment, but they have just as much chance as anyone at nailing 2026 if they re-structure quickly and properly. One might even argue that, with the advantage they have, they can pour more focus into the new rules than anyone else.......

"...if they re-structure quickly and properly"

IF.

As the great Murray said, "'if' is F1 spelt backwards".

We have to restructure - so I've split the team down middle politically, boinked our lead designers PA so he's left, pissed off the star drivers Dad and had my sexy time WhatsApp messages uploaded to the internet. What more can I do... ?

[732NM]

marine boy said:

732NM said:

The bloke who sorted the Honda is ex Mercedes.

What is his name?

Neil Trundle talks about him in this video. https://youtu.be/d1OVW-6M6BM?si=uwbVv2Sqs8qCWm0I&a...

[Blib]

TheDeuce said:

They are. But there's a core of people and learning/experience at Mercs outfit that have a decades worth of experience at this stage - and so long as as the PU carries a Merc badge, then MB/AMG will support it's technical development any way possible.

Tough to beat the success of a manufacturer tied PU development outfit. Obviously RBPT have fairly recently been supported by Honda still, but I'm thinking Honda have given no input into the 2026 design since they're building their own as a competitor now.

Of course I'm only talking about the relative likelihood of success, it's always possible there's a surprise winner each time there's a PU shake up. But weighing it all up, a new PU from effectively a new development team and also no more Adrian Newey? I think Max I'll be gone at least by 2026.

I struggle to get my head around this.

Am I right in thinking that Honda walked away from the joint venture with RB, leaving behind everything. Only to start up from scratch again a few short years later?

If so, it beggars belief.

I assume I've got this wrong. (I usually do).

[732NM]

Blib said:

I struggle to get my head around this.

Am I right in thinking that Honda walked away from the joint venture with RB, leaving behind everything. Only to start up from scratch again a few short years later?

If so, it beggars belief.

I assume I've got this wrong. (I usually do).

You've got it wrong.

Honda left officially as a name but agreed to supply/support for the remaining contract term. They then did an about turn when it looked like RB were competitive, so started to use the official name again.

It's always been Honda Japan making the engines and holding the IP. RBPT are starting from zero, apart from what's in the heads of the people they recruited.

[thegreenhell]

I think the only thing Honda gave up to RBPT was their European support base. Everything else was and still is done out of Sakura in Japan. None of the IP was given away, but RBPT may have taken on some of the Honda staff.

[Blib]

Thank you both!

[Sandpit Steve]

Blib said:

TheDeuce said:

They are. But there's a core of people and learning/experience at Mercs outfit that have a decades worth of experience at this stage - and so long as as the PU carries a Merc badge, then MB/AMG will support it's technical development any way possible.

Tough to beat the success of a manufacturer tied PU development outfit. Obviously RBPT have fairly recently been supported by Honda still, but I'm thinking Honda have given no input into the 2026 design since they're building their own as a competitor now.

Of course I'm only talking about the relative likelihood of success, it's always possible there's a surprise winner each time there's a PU shake up. But weighing it all up, a new PU from effectively a new development team and also no more Adrian Newey? I think Max I'll be gone at least by 2026.

I struggle to get my head around this.

Am I right in thinking that Honda walked away from the joint venture with RB, leaving behind everything. Only to start up from scratch again a few short years later?

If so, it beggars belief.

I assume I've got this wrong. (I usually do).

There’s two teams. There’s the current engine, which is the Honda rebadged as RBPT, made in Japan, then there’s the RB own PU programme making the 2026 engine from scratch, who have recruited a lot of the Mercedes powertrain guys from Brixworth.

[TheDeuce]

732NM said:

Blib said:

I struggle to get my head around this.

Am I right in thinking that Honda walked away from the joint venture with RB, leaving behind everything. Only to start up from scratch again a few short years later?

If so, it beggars belief.

I assume I've got this wrong. (I usually do).

You've got it wrong

Honda left officially as a name but agreed to supply/support for the remaining contract term. They then did an about turn when it looked like RB were competitive, so started to use the official name again.

It's always been Honda Japan making the engines and holding the IP. RBPT are starting from zero, apart from what's in the heads of the people they recruited.

And to add, honda are from 2026 supplying a new regs honda PU to AMR (technically it's a partnership to with AMR to develop the engine, but I think really it's all going to be Honda..). That should give you some idea of how little they'll be sharing with RBPT about possible solutions to the 2026 spec PU, despite still supporting them a little with current regs PU.

So all RBPT really have for 2026 is a brand new independent team of people, some of whom are very experienced of course, and Ford coming on as their namesake and technical partner to help, but it's Fords first stab at F1 in some time and it'll likely take a while for results to gel.

I'm not wishing them the worst at all, but being realistic it's going to be a challenging transition for them and likely easier for Merc and Ferrari. And if course, Honda at AMR could spring a surprise result, they really do know their power units..