RE: Orders open for 600hp TWR Supercat
Discussion
Jon_S_Rally said:
If he was a "nobody", I'm not sure he would be collaborating with such influential names as TWR and Magnus Walker.
TWR granted, but who or what has Magnus Walker ever influenced, besides some midlife crisis-embroiled, 40-50 year old Porsche drivers? Only heard of him a couple of years back, and in all honesty still absolutely no idea what he does; does he collect old Porsches? Is he a recycler of old clothes? Either way I would say the grand total of all the influence he's had over the cars my friends and I own or drive is equal to the square root of f**k all.
Cars are used by people solely as transport. That accounts for probably 20% of the population.
Cars are used as status symbols and transport. That accounts for probably 70% of the population. The degree to how much of the car is function vs trinket is subtle but plenty of people would ‘only drive a 3 series or Audi as they have earned it’.
Of the remaining 10% I would say that 5% are the true enthusiasts. The classic car restorers, amateur motorsport participants, detailing freaks. The people who would love any car & the idea of swapping their Rover Vitesse for a new Audi is like giving their dog away.
Of the remaining 5%, 2% are using cars as investments, 3% are using cars as a pure status symbol (no transport function at all, they have another car & have a Lamborghini in the garage but rarely drive it & don’t do much other than bask in the reflected glory of ownership).
Of this last 3% there is a whole culture of petty one-up-man-ship which is invisible to the true enthusiasts.
When you look at people fawning over dealers to get on the waiting list for 911 GT3RS or Rolex watches. When you consider how many people gave actual real money to buy NFTs. Then sure, there are people who will buy this.
If you don’t understand it that’s because you are one of the true enthusiasts.
The super nouveau rich crave something that nobody else has. Magnus Walker has tapped into that market perfectly and made himself very comfortable in the process.
I expect these cars will all sell & then probably be very rarely seen.
There is zero Venn diagram overlap with anyone who collects Jaguar brochures or was there in 1988 at LeMans.
Cars are used as status symbols and transport. That accounts for probably 70% of the population. The degree to how much of the car is function vs trinket is subtle but plenty of people would ‘only drive a 3 series or Audi as they have earned it’.
Of the remaining 10% I would say that 5% are the true enthusiasts. The classic car restorers, amateur motorsport participants, detailing freaks. The people who would love any car & the idea of swapping their Rover Vitesse for a new Audi is like giving their dog away.
Of the remaining 5%, 2% are using cars as investments, 3% are using cars as a pure status symbol (no transport function at all, they have another car & have a Lamborghini in the garage but rarely drive it & don’t do much other than bask in the reflected glory of ownership).
Of this last 3% there is a whole culture of petty one-up-man-ship which is invisible to the true enthusiasts.
When you look at people fawning over dealers to get on the waiting list for 911 GT3RS or Rolex watches. When you consider how many people gave actual real money to buy NFTs. Then sure, there are people who will buy this.
If you don’t understand it that’s because you are one of the true enthusiasts.
The super nouveau rich crave something that nobody else has. Magnus Walker has tapped into that market perfectly and made himself very comfortable in the process.
I expect these cars will all sell & then probably be very rarely seen.
There is zero Venn diagram overlap with anyone who collects Jaguar brochures or was there in 1988 at LeMans.
Stick Legs said:
Cars are used by people solely as transport. That accounts for probably 20% of the population.
Cars are used as status symbols and transport. That accounts for probably 70% of the population. The degree to how much of the car is function vs trinket is subtle but plenty of people would ‘only drive a 3 series or Audi as they have earned it’.
Of the remaining 10% I would say that 5% are the true enthusiasts. The classic car restorers, amateur motorsport participants, detailing freaks. The people who would love any car & the idea of swapping their Rover Vitesse for a new Audi is like giving their dog away.
Of the remaining 5%, 2% are using cars as investments, 3% are using cars as a pure status symbol (no transport function at all, they have another car & have a Lamborghini in the garage but rarely drive it & don’t do much other than bask in the reflected glory of ownership).
Of this last 3% there is a whole culture of petty one-up-man-ship which is invisible to the true enthusiasts.
When you look at people fawning over dealers to get on the waiting list for 911 GT3RS or Rolex watches. When you consider how many people gave actual real money to buy NFTs. Then sure, there are people who will buy this.
If you don’t understand it that’s because you are one of the true enthusiasts.
The super nouveau rich crave something that nobody else has. Magnus Walker has tapped into that market perfectly and made himself very comfortable in the process.
I expect these cars will all sell & then probably be very rarely seen.
There is zero Venn diagram overlap with anyone who collects Jaguar brochures or was there in 1988 at LeMans.
99% of all statistics are …Cars are used as status symbols and transport. That accounts for probably 70% of the population. The degree to how much of the car is function vs trinket is subtle but plenty of people would ‘only drive a 3 series or Audi as they have earned it’.
Of the remaining 10% I would say that 5% are the true enthusiasts. The classic car restorers, amateur motorsport participants, detailing freaks. The people who would love any car & the idea of swapping their Rover Vitesse for a new Audi is like giving their dog away.
Of the remaining 5%, 2% are using cars as investments, 3% are using cars as a pure status symbol (no transport function at all, they have another car & have a Lamborghini in the garage but rarely drive it & don’t do much other than bask in the reflected glory of ownership).
Of this last 3% there is a whole culture of petty one-up-man-ship which is invisible to the true enthusiasts.
When you look at people fawning over dealers to get on the waiting list for 911 GT3RS or Rolex watches. When you consider how many people gave actual real money to buy NFTs. Then sure, there are people who will buy this.
If you don’t understand it that’s because you are one of the true enthusiasts.
The super nouveau rich crave something that nobody else has. Magnus Walker has tapped into that market perfectly and made himself very comfortable in the process.
I expect these cars will all sell & then probably be very rarely seen.
There is zero Venn diagram overlap with anyone who collects Jaguar brochures or was there in 1988 at LeMans.
Magnus Walker has a car collection, the majority of which are Porsches, he’s not tapped into any Porsche market nor made himself very comfortable from them, his money came from fashion/clothing design and sales.
DodgyGeezer said:
theJT said:
Eh, it's a bit much. I like it in broad strokes, but it needs dialing down about 15 maybe 20%, you know?
this ^^^ I really want to like it but there's something 'too much' about it (not that I'm in the market segment!)Kind of reminds me of the Aston Martin Victor.
Slippydiff said:
DonkeyApple said:
Isn't that the norm for social media channels?
Definitely. So suggesting there’s some kudos attached to having 1M followers in the world of car design, when your target audience know more about acne cream than tumblehome, is a somewhat moot point.
Slippydiff said:
99% of all statistics are …
Magnus Walker has a car collection, the majority of which are Porsches, he’s not tapped into any Porsche market nor made himself very comfortable from them, his money came from fashion/clothing design and sales.
Sorry I presumed he was involved with Singer.Magnus Walker has a car collection, the majority of which are Porsches, he’s not tapped into any Porsche market nor made himself very comfortable from them, his money came from fashion/clothing design and sales.
DeejRC said:
I shall wait to see how wrong I am and bask in this gentleman’s design genius.
You don't need to wait. The fact he is involved in this project, that his business is doing work for McLaren and Aston Martin, along with his sizeable social media following, has already shown that you are wrong.You don't have to like what he does, but that doesn't mean he isn't successful.
Slippydiff said:
The vast majority of which will be spotty faced 14 year olds living at home with their parents, and who haven’t got £250 to spend on Just Eat, let alone £250k on this hideous monstrosity.
So to those that do actually have £250k to spend on their automotive dream, he is indeed a nobody.
The proof of that will be in whether these cars sell.So to those that do actually have £250k to spend on their automotive dream, he is indeed a nobody.
As above, a quick search suggests that he is already working with OEMs through his graphic design business, so his fan club clearly extends beyond spotty teenagers.
CKY said:
TWR granted, but who or what has Magnus Walker ever influenced, besides some midlife crisis-embroiled, 40-50 year old Porsche drivers?
Only heard of him a couple of years back, and in all honesty still absolutely no idea what he does; does he collect old Porsches? Is he a recycler of old clothes? Either way I would say the grand total of all the influence he's had over the cars my friends and I own or drive is equal to the square root of f**k all.
Just because you haven't heard of someone, doesn't mean they aren't famous/influential. My step kids listen to bands I've never heard of, but that doesn't mean those bands aren't famous, does it?Only heard of him a couple of years back, and in all honesty still absolutely no idea what he does; does he collect old Porsches? Is he a recycler of old clothes? Either way I would say the grand total of all the influence he's had over the cars my friends and I own or drive is equal to the square root of f**k all.
I know this might be hard to take, but the world does extend beyond just what you know of it.
pneumothorax said:
I have also started a venture, my rendering has also had several fousands of hours put in to create the images you see, looking for more the "lifestyle" market, think TWR meets Dakar. I want £15k up front, £250 k for the finished item please.
Do not miss this opportunity.
weirdly that has, for me, a lot more 'instant appeal' than the TWR Do not miss this opportunity.
Jon_S_Rally said:
Slippydiff said:
The vast majority of which will be spotty faced 14 year olds living at home with their parents, and who haven’t got £250 to spend on Just Eat, let alone £250k on this hideous monstrosity.
So to those that do actually have £250k to spend on their automotive dream, he is indeed a nobody.
The proof of that will be in whether these cars sell.So to those that do actually have £250k to spend on their automotive dream, he is indeed a nobody.
As above, a quick search suggests that he is already working with OEMs through his graphic design business, so his fan club clearly extends beyond spotty teenagers.
Even if they sell them all, it doesn’t make them any more desirable to me. You may like them, and that’s your prerogative, but I think it’s a hideous mess, and as this is a an automotive public forum, I , and seemingly plenty of others have the right to, and have voiced our opinions.
There is no right or wrong, just opinions, but suggesting the designer has some credibility because he has 1M followers on TikTok, Instagram or suchlike, is quite frankly, fanciful.
pneumothorax said:
I have also started a venture, my rendering has also had several fousands of hours put in to create the images you see, looking for more the "lifestyle" market, think TWR meets Dakar. I want £15k up front, £250 k for the finished item please.
Do not miss this opportunity.
I like it, where do I sign up Do not miss this opportunity.
As that Jag also featured back in the day when the XJS was current and relatively young:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKMwGzOmtsE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKMwGzOmtsE
Slippydiff said:
Ah yes, your usual ad hominem response in such circumstances on these threads.
Even if they sell them all, it doesn’t make them any more desirable to me. You may like them, and that’s your prerogative, but I think it’s a hideous mess, and as this is a an automotive public forum, I , and seemingly plenty of others have the right to, and have voiced our opinions.
There is no right or wrong, just opinions, but suggesting the designer has some credibility because he has 1M followers on TikTok, Instagram or suchlike, is quite frankly, fanciful.
Of course you can voice an opinion on the car (I'm not that keen on it either for what it's worth). The problem comes when you try to claim that one of the people behind it has no credibility, when he clearly he does. You can dismiss the importance of social media, but that just shows a lack of understanding of the world we now live in. And, even if you don't rate the importance of his social media following, you conveniently ignored the fact that he is also working with OEMs on marketing materials through one of his other companies. He clearly has some credibility within the industry, whether you think it's 'fanciful' or not.Even if they sell them all, it doesn’t make them any more desirable to me. You may like them, and that’s your prerogative, but I think it’s a hideous mess, and as this is a an automotive public forum, I , and seemingly plenty of others have the right to, and have voiced our opinions.
There is no right or wrong, just opinions, but suggesting the designer has some credibility because he has 1M followers on TikTok, Instagram or suchlike, is quite frankly, fanciful.
Jon_S_Rally said:
DeejRC said:
I shall wait to see how wrong I am and bask in this gentleman’s design genius.
You don't need to wait. The fact he is involved in this project, that his business is doing work for McLaren and Aston Martin, along with his sizeable social media following, has already shown that you are wrong.You don't have to like what he does, but that doesn't mean he isn't successful.
Slippydiff said:
The vast majority of which will be spotty faced 14 year olds living at home with their parents, and who haven’t got £250 to spend on Just Eat, let alone £250k on this hideous monstrosity.
So to those that do actually have £250k to spend on their automotive dream, he is indeed a nobody.
The proof of that will be in whether these cars sell.So to those that do actually have £250k to spend on their automotive dream, he is indeed a nobody.
As above, a quick search suggests that he is already working with OEMs through his graphic design business, so his fan club clearly extends beyond spotty teenagers.
CKY said:
TWR granted, but who or what has Magnus Walker ever influenced, besides some midlife crisis-embroiled, 40-50 year old Porsche drivers?
Only heard of him a couple of years back, and in all honesty still absolutely no idea what he does; does he collect old Porsches? Is he a recycler of old clothes? Either way I would say the grand total of all the influence he's had over the cars my friends and I own or drive is equal to the square root of f**k all.
Just because you haven't heard of someone, doesn't mean they aren't famous/influential. My step kids listen to bands I've never heard of, but that doesn't mean those bands aren't famous, does it?Only heard of him a couple of years back, and in all honesty still absolutely no idea what he does; does he collect old Porsches? Is he a recycler of old clothes? Either way I would say the grand total of all the influence he's had over the cars my friends and I own or drive is equal to the square root of f**k all.
I know this might be hard to take, but the world does extend beyond just what you know of it.
There's a huge difference between not liking this and those who keep posting questioning Saleem's/Walker's credentials or accusing them of being unsuccessful or talentless. It's massively disrespectful and just shows a lack of willingness to understand somebody's work which may fall outside your own circle.
DodgyGeezer said:
pneumothorax said:
I have also started a venture, my rendering has also had several fousands of hours put in to create the images you see, looking for more the "lifestyle" market, think TWR meets Dakar. I want £15k up front, £250 k for the finished item please.
Do not miss this opportunity.
weirdly that has, for me, a lot more 'instant appeal' than the TWR Do not miss this opportunity.
hairykrishna said:
DodgyGeezer said:
pneumothorax said:
I have also started a venture, my rendering has also had several fousands of hours put in to create the images you see, looking for more the "lifestyle" market, think TWR meets Dakar. I want £15k up front, £250 k for the finished item please.
Do not miss this opportunity.
weirdly that has, for me, a lot more 'instant appeal' than the TWR Do not miss this opportunity.
DonkeyApple said:
To be honest, those were my thoughts.
Donors are cheap though. Resto cost will be high, there's the body kit to glue on and the interior to retrim and add random modern bling from spearmint rhino to. The Jag V12s cost a fair whack. And each firm supplying those services will be invoicing with their profit requirements embedded. And given you've got three sticking fingers in at the offing, £225 in this day and age seems quite low.
I like the look of the car. I've always liked the XJS. It's not just a pretty car but it saved the world from the abject pain of the E Types prolonged and drawn out demise and allowed Jaguar to move on with its life. On a couple of occasions I have gone to bid on or buy a Lister Storm but each time just found a plastic bodykit holding a collection of ferrous oxide molecules temporarily in place.
Now I tend to look at these things from a financial perspective and when I was starting out my then boss told me to always be on the look out for round numbers as they were robust early indicator that the people across the table were monkeys. So out of habit I'll always do things like multiply the number of units by the asking. 225 was already a bit suspect as it's often the first stop after a random thought that £200k might be a nice price. Anyway, 225 x 88 is £20m. You can't get a much more round number than that. Obviously it can sometimes be coincidence but more often than not it has come about because someone has just thought up a round number that sounds about right and divies out to all involved sufficiently.
Then there is the family name. No sane person would have anything to do with that name such is it's robust track record in the world of bizniz. It's very harsh to judge a descendent on the character of their forefather but expressions don't come out of thin air but due to statistics, hence why we have saying such as 'apples not falling far from trees'. You'd really want to do some due diligence before sending a penny.
And why are they claiming tens of thousands of hours of wind tunnel testing, CFD and proving grounds? There are only 9000 hours in a year. 5000 is a working year so tens of thousands implies a minimum of 4 years constant work on the supercat. I don't believe that. To me the remark could have been the sort of thing a kid says.
And then there is the 'crack team'. Experience in F1 but not just that McLaren, Ferrari and Porsche. The implication here is that on top of him, Magnus and picture drawer chap there's a team of pros with an enormous depth of experience in motorsport and top flight marques. But the childish way this is written with the use of the word 'crack' does ping the monkey radar. The project doesn't really have the funding at this stage to have a team of top professionals on the books so maybe this is a bit of PR spin. So maybe, it's just one bloke who has done some work for a few of the top teams in F1. What sort of work? Well, to be honest, they could have been anything from the char lady up so one is best to probably assume that bit of the article is b
ks until proven otherwise.
And just DDing the figurehead, he doesn't look to have much experience or any kind of track record of success and strangely in this day and age hasn't managed to create any kind of following. So he's not leaping out as someone charismatic, charming and driven who you'd risk money on.
I like the look of the car but behind the PR it triggers multiple Mickey Mouse signals so I'll wait to see 89th car from the company.
Why don’t you book a tour of the TWR facility rather than speculating on the ability to produce the car. By the way the company was established in 2020 and this project had been under way for 3 years. Your hourly calculations are based on 1 man working. Multiply this by the actual number of people working on this project and you actually end up at closer to 100,000 hours.Donors are cheap though. Resto cost will be high, there's the body kit to glue on and the interior to retrim and add random modern bling from spearmint rhino to. The Jag V12s cost a fair whack. And each firm supplying those services will be invoicing with their profit requirements embedded. And given you've got three sticking fingers in at the offing, £225 in this day and age seems quite low.
I like the look of the car. I've always liked the XJS. It's not just a pretty car but it saved the world from the abject pain of the E Types prolonged and drawn out demise and allowed Jaguar to move on with its life. On a couple of occasions I have gone to bid on or buy a Lister Storm but each time just found a plastic bodykit holding a collection of ferrous oxide molecules temporarily in place.
Now I tend to look at these things from a financial perspective and when I was starting out my then boss told me to always be on the look out for round numbers as they were robust early indicator that the people across the table were monkeys. So out of habit I'll always do things like multiply the number of units by the asking. 225 was already a bit suspect as it's often the first stop after a random thought that £200k might be a nice price. Anyway, 225 x 88 is £20m. You can't get a much more round number than that. Obviously it can sometimes be coincidence but more often than not it has come about because someone has just thought up a round number that sounds about right and divies out to all involved sufficiently.
Then there is the family name. No sane person would have anything to do with that name such is it's robust track record in the world of bizniz. It's very harsh to judge a descendent on the character of their forefather but expressions don't come out of thin air but due to statistics, hence why we have saying such as 'apples not falling far from trees'. You'd really want to do some due diligence before sending a penny.
And why are they claiming tens of thousands of hours of wind tunnel testing, CFD and proving grounds? There are only 9000 hours in a year. 5000 is a working year so tens of thousands implies a minimum of 4 years constant work on the supercat. I don't believe that. To me the remark could have been the sort of thing a kid says.
And then there is the 'crack team'. Experience in F1 but not just that McLaren, Ferrari and Porsche. The implication here is that on top of him, Magnus and picture drawer chap there's a team of pros with an enormous depth of experience in motorsport and top flight marques. But the childish way this is written with the use of the word 'crack' does ping the monkey radar. The project doesn't really have the funding at this stage to have a team of top professionals on the books so maybe this is a bit of PR spin. So maybe, it's just one bloke who has done some work for a few of the top teams in F1. What sort of work? Well, to be honest, they could have been anything from the char lady up so one is best to probably assume that bit of the article is b
ks until proven otherwise. And just DDing the figurehead, he doesn't look to have much experience or any kind of track record of success and strangely in this day and age hasn't managed to create any kind of following. So he's not leaping out as someone charismatic, charming and driven who you'd risk money on.
I like the look of the car but behind the PR it triggers multiple Mickey Mouse signals so I'll wait to see 89th car from the company.
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