Doing it on the cheap, recommendations?
Discussion
Hi all!
With the summer approaching I've nabbed myself another MX-5 to take to the track, simple 2000 NB base model. My intention with this car is to take it to the track once, maybe twice per month (work dependant
).
My goal here is to be safe, cheap and have fun. I'm not chasing laptimes, I'm not interested in power gains.
Besides the obvious stuff that I am in the process of acquiring (rollbar + bucket seats), here is some things I'm not sure what to do about.
Suspension
Expensive to replace, it's on stock shocks, springs and bushings the now. I'm not sure I want to touch this, as I would rather spend £600-1000 on consumables over the summer period. I don't trust £300 ebay specials, thoughts?
Wheels and tires
Car is on stock 14 inch alloys, tire choices seem to be limited at this size, I think going to 15s might be better but not sure. I don't want to go semi-slicks, road tires are fine. This car has a whopping 110bhp when it was new, so I think basic but not awful street tires will be more than good enough. Thoughts? Ideally £200-250 for a set, I expect them to last 5-6 track days but maybe that's a bit optimistic
Brake pads
Car weighs nothing, I think whatever I do here will last the season. I've got Mintex pads in the front and rear, and can see me sticking with these. For the sake of discussion, what are the alternatives. Safety item so price here isn't a concern but I expect £120-140 for a set.
Fluids
Car has no leaks, oil came out clean. Is it worth me spending extra for better engine oil/coolant or go just go with Halfords? Brake fluid I don't care about, I've got AP Racing fluid already.
Alignment
Thinking of getting the car aligned for the track but not sure if that's a waste of time on the stock suspension and instead just get a safe alignment for the street. Thoughts?
Sorry long post, but I want to make sure before I start throwing away my cash that it is going in the right direction and I'm getting as many smiles per £££ as I can.
EDIT: Just want to say thanks to everyone for replying so far, this is somewhat new ground for me and I have a lot to learn for car setup/components, so I appreciate the patience
With the summer approaching I've nabbed myself another MX-5 to take to the track, simple 2000 NB base model. My intention with this car is to take it to the track once, maybe twice per month (work dependant
).My goal here is to be safe, cheap and have fun. I'm not chasing laptimes, I'm not interested in power gains.
Besides the obvious stuff that I am in the process of acquiring (rollbar + bucket seats), here is some things I'm not sure what to do about.
Suspension
Expensive to replace, it's on stock shocks, springs and bushings the now. I'm not sure I want to touch this, as I would rather spend £600-1000 on consumables over the summer period. I don't trust £300 ebay specials, thoughts?
Wheels and tires
Car is on stock 14 inch alloys, tire choices seem to be limited at this size, I think going to 15s might be better but not sure. I don't want to go semi-slicks, road tires are fine. This car has a whopping 110bhp when it was new, so I think basic but not awful street tires will be more than good enough. Thoughts? Ideally £200-250 for a set, I expect them to last 5-6 track days but maybe that's a bit optimistic
Brake pads
Car weighs nothing, I think whatever I do here will last the season. I've got Mintex pads in the front and rear, and can see me sticking with these. For the sake of discussion, what are the alternatives. Safety item so price here isn't a concern but I expect £120-140 for a set.
Fluids
Car has no leaks, oil came out clean. Is it worth me spending extra for better engine oil/coolant or go just go with Halfords? Brake fluid I don't care about, I've got AP Racing fluid already.
Alignment
Thinking of getting the car aligned for the track but not sure if that's a waste of time on the stock suspension and instead just get a safe alignment for the street. Thoughts?
Sorry long post, but I want to make sure before I start throwing away my cash that it is going in the right direction and I'm getting as many smiles per £££ as I can.
EDIT: Just want to say thanks to everyone for replying so far, this is somewhat new ground for me and I have a lot to learn for car setup/components, so I appreciate the patience
Edited by TheLoraxxZeus on Friday 24th May 10:23
I think your list will write itself after your first track day.
There will be things that annoy you and things that you are happy to live with. Until you take it out and push it way beyond what any sane person would do on the road, you just won't know which camp things sit in.
If it were me, I'd make sure the brakes were tip top, and that everything else was 'safe' (i.e. nothing obviously wrong) ... then go to a track day and see what fails/annoys you and go from there. Maybe make the first outing as cheap & local as possible to avoid wasting too much time and money if it doesn't perform as you'd hope.
There will be things that annoy you and things that you are happy to live with. Until you take it out and push it way beyond what any sane person would do on the road, you just won't know which camp things sit in.
If it were me, I'd make sure the brakes were tip top, and that everything else was 'safe' (i.e. nothing obviously wrong) ... then go to a track day and see what fails/annoys you and go from there. Maybe make the first outing as cheap & local as possible to avoid wasting too much time and money if it doesn't perform as you'd hope.
Grab some 15" wheels and look for part-worns - I'm currently using Giti GTR2 which were a control tyre for VW beetle cup at some point, there's loads available for peanuts, and being an endurance racing compound they're perfect for track day use. The last set I bought was £27/ea for loose tyres.
Brakes:
Brakes:
- Fresh fluid, I highly recommend ATE Typ200 as a very good balance between cost and performance. Lots of people just skip to Castrol SRF, but it's really overkill for everything short of proper race cars imho.
- Standard pads will be OK if you can keep the temps under control, but something like Mintex M1144 or Ferodo DS2500s will be a very good purchase. We have a set on our ST150 Fiesta and they're currently at 10 days of running and loads of life left.
- Standard discs are also fine, don't fall for drilled or slotted rotors as they offer nothing until you really start hammering them
I appear to have missed it a crucial bit of information, I've been on 2 track days with this car already, and half a dozen in my other car.
Main difference here is I'm going for a dedicated car, that's cheap and fun. I'm finding it harder to pick it cheap stuff because I'm just not sure, and there are tons of options.
I know everything will make the car better, is trying to find that sweet spot of bang for buck without it being dog s
t.
Main difference here is I'm going for a dedicated car, that's cheap and fun. I'm finding it harder to pick it cheap stuff because I'm just not sure, and there are tons of options.
I know everything will make the car better, is trying to find that sweet spot of bang for buck without it being dog s
t.Krikkit said:
Grab some 15" wheels and look for part-worns - I'm currently using Giti GTR2 which were a control tyre for VW beetle cup at some point, there's loads available for peanuts, and being an endurance racing compound they're perfect for track day use. The last set I bought was £27/ea for loose tyres.
Brakes:
Excellent info, I was not really interested in semi slicks but those ones you have mentioned are £38 a piece with 4mm tread left. Will those last for a good amount of sessions? Cheaper than road tires but I also don't want too much grip because well, sliding is fun haha. Brakes:
- Fresh fluid, I highly recommend ATE Typ200 as a very good balance between cost and performance. Lots of people just skip to Castrol SRF, but it's really overkill for everything short of proper race cars imho.
- Standard pads will be OK if you can keep the temps under control, but something like Mintex M1144 or Ferodo DS2500s will be a very good purchase. We have a set on our ST150 Fiesta and they're currently at 10 days of running and loads of life left.
- Standard discs are also fine, don't fall for drilled or slotted rotors as they offer nothing until you really start hammering them
Already got mintex pads and same experience, superb wear and don't seem to overheat.
Thanks!
TheLoraxxZeus said:
Excellent info, I was not really interested in semi slicks but those ones you have mentioned are £38 a piece with 4mm tread left. Will those last for a good amount of sessions? Cheaper than road tires but I also don't want too much grip because well, sliding is fun haha.
Ours is FWD, so no real slippyness, but they last incredibly well. Currently done 3 days on our first set and still have 1.5mm left (from 4mm). I'd put them on the front and stick something less grippy on the rear.id definitely get tyres. you're calling it a dedicated track car but not putting on the single biggest increase for performance, which is a decent set of tyres? in 15" they'll be pretty cheap too.
Also, depending on where you're planning on doing trackdays, be prepared to get absolutely mullered, a standard power mx5 on road tyres will be rather slow compared to most other track cars. you might be alright at bedford where there arent any race cars and you can get out the way on the straights.
Also, depending on where you're planning on doing trackdays, be prepared to get absolutely mullered, a standard power mx5 on road tyres will be rather slow compared to most other track cars. you might be alright at bedford where there arent any race cars and you can get out the way on the straights.
TheLoraxxZeus said:
Excellent info, I was not really interested in semi slicks but those ones you have mentioned are £38 a piece with 4mm tread left. Will those last for a good amount of sessions? Cheaper than road tires but I also don't want too much grip because well, sliding is fun haha.
Already got mintex pads and same experience, superb wear and don't seem to overheat.
Thanks!
There’s a tyre place in Holmfirth who sell part worn PS3 from the Ginetta Juniors. Have a search on eBay for 195/50/15 (or are they 45? I forget).Already got mintex pads and same experience, superb wear and don't seem to overheat.
Thanks!
I’ve had a set on mine for a couple of years, done 1 track day (I know, I know, pathetic!) and a couple of thousand road miles.
Not the grippiest tyre so the car does move around a bit, but very controllable. (IANARD)
These are the guys, they have an eBay store too, which I think worked out a little cheaper when I bought mine.
https://www.tyretek.co.uk/collections/15-inch
Look to be oos currently, but might be worth a phone call to confirm.
Edited by Dave. on Friday 17th May 11:58
brillomaster said:
id definitely get tyres. you're calling it a dedicated track car but not putting on the single biggest increase for performance, which is a decent set of tyres? in 15" they'll be pretty cheap too.
I know I know, I've never used slicks before and my 2 concers were cost, which I can see now isn't that bad, with part worn, and being too grippy for the cars power. Is that even a thing? I'm new to this, so forgive me for silly questions.brillomaster said:
Also, depending on where you're planning on doing trackdays, be prepared to get absolutely mullered, a standard power mx5 on road tyres will be rather slow compared to most other track cars. you might be alright at bedford where there arent any race cars and you can get out the way on the straights.
Lucky enough that hasn't been a problem so far, I am attending Knockhill only as it's the only track nearby. Can comfortably say the only time I'm being bothered is by powerful cars on the 2 straights, not had an issue outpacing most of them in the corners. I've been hotlapping Knockhill on iRacing weekly for over a year now if that's worth anything.I never tracked any of my MX-5s (NA & NB) but a 4 wheel alignment with a fast road setup, decent rubber and decent pads / disks are all you should really need to have fun.
If you're getting more serious then a HardDog cage / hoop would be the next thing. I wouldn't bother with upgrading the suspension as the stock stuff is fairly decent. If you want to start boosting power with a turbo then you might need to start looking at suspension upgrades. A chap called Steve Moorecroft(?) at 5-Speed not far from Nottingham might be able to help with the turbo / performance upgrades. If you want to get into the really quick stuff then I'd suggest calling Roddison Motorsport.
If you're getting more serious then a HardDog cage / hoop would be the next thing. I wouldn't bother with upgrading the suspension as the stock stuff is fairly decent. If you want to start boosting power with a turbo then you might need to start looking at suspension upgrades. A chap called Steve Moorecroft(?) at 5-Speed not far from Nottingham might be able to help with the turbo / performance upgrades. If you want to get into the really quick stuff then I'd suggest calling Roddison Motorsport.
i mean, ultimate 'doing it on the cheap' is to do nothing. a standard mx5 will be just fine for a few laps on standard brakes, standard tyres and standard suspension.
better brakes will mean you can do more laps and brake harder before you get brake fade, and they'll last longer.
better tyres will means you can do more laps at higher cornering speeds before the tyres get too hot and go off.
better suspension makes the car slightly flatter through the corners, which can help with outright grip and tyre wear.
but you don't need to do any of these to have fun. got some mates with an mx5 track car, still on standard everything, and they're still out there having fun just fine.
better brakes will mean you can do more laps and brake harder before you get brake fade, and they'll last longer.
better tyres will means you can do more laps at higher cornering speeds before the tyres get too hot and go off.
better suspension makes the car slightly flatter through the corners, which can help with outright grip and tyre wear.
but you don't need to do any of these to have fun. got some mates with an mx5 track car, still on standard everything, and they're still out there having fun just fine.
Had an NA track car, and two NB track cars.
Best upgrade on those was the Gaz Gold suspension. Adjustable damping, so you can fiddle with it at the track by just reaching underneath. Stiff for track, soften it up for road use.
That also made a big difference to braking, as it reduced the force going through the front wheels by eliminating much of the weight transfer rear->front.
Braided hoses, ATE race fluid, and some half decent pads like 1144s on the front, standard pads on the rear are fine though.
I ran nankang NS2R tyres and they last ages and and are fine on the road. Cheap too at around £250/set.
If you want to go further then your next step is bucket seats, roll bar and harnesses. You have to do them all at once, you can't have buckets with the standard belts (pointless), and you can't have harnesses with the standard seats (dangerous), and you need a roll bar or harness bar as a minimum to have somewhere to attach the belts.
See TR Lane for roll bars, etc.
I'm sure there are some shortcuts, but i wouldn't risk it.
Had lots of fun in mine, but they're a bit underpowered nowadays. Somewhere like cadwell they're fine, but at silverstone or donington you're forever sitting with your indicator on.
Good luck with it
Best upgrade on those was the Gaz Gold suspension. Adjustable damping, so you can fiddle with it at the track by just reaching underneath. Stiff for track, soften it up for road use.
That also made a big difference to braking, as it reduced the force going through the front wheels by eliminating much of the weight transfer rear->front.
Braided hoses, ATE race fluid, and some half decent pads like 1144s on the front, standard pads on the rear are fine though.
I ran nankang NS2R tyres and they last ages and and are fine on the road. Cheap too at around £250/set.
If you want to go further then your next step is bucket seats, roll bar and harnesses. You have to do them all at once, you can't have buckets with the standard belts (pointless), and you can't have harnesses with the standard seats (dangerous), and you need a roll bar or harness bar as a minimum to have somewhere to attach the belts.
See TR Lane for roll bars, etc.
I'm sure there are some shortcuts, but i wouldn't risk it.
Had lots of fun in mine, but they're a bit underpowered nowadays. Somewhere like cadwell they're fine, but at silverstone or donington you're forever sitting with your indicator on.
Good luck with it
I'm currently using Roddisons compound pads on my Turbo NA for road use - a touch squeaky when cold but impressive bite on repeated use.
https://bofiracing.co.uk/running-gear/brake-fricti...
I'm also on Gaz Gold coilovers - they are "good" but not "great" for fast road, track use may be better suited of course.
https://bofiracing.co.uk/running-gear/brake-fricti...
I'm also on Gaz Gold coilovers - they are "good" but not "great" for fast road, track use may be better suited of course.
Dave. said:
There’s a tyre place in Holmfirth who sell part worn PS3 from the Ginetta Juniors. Have a search on eBay for 195/50/15 (or are they 45? I forget).
I’ve had a set on mine for a couple of years, done 1 track day (I know, I know, pathetic!) and a couple of thousand road miles.
Not the grippiest tyre so the car does move around a bit, but very controllable. (IANARD)
These are the guys, they have an eBay store too, which I think worked out a little cheaper when I bought mine.
https://www.tyretek.co.uk/collections/15-inch
Look to be oos currently, but might be worth a phone call to confirm.
They also do the Giti GTR2sI’ve had a set on mine for a couple of years, done 1 track day (I know, I know, pathetic!) and a couple of thousand road miles.
Not the grippiest tyre so the car does move around a bit, but very controllable. (IANARD)
These are the guys, they have an eBay store too, which I think worked out a little cheaper when I bought mine.
https://www.tyretek.co.uk/collections/15-inch
Look to be oos currently, but might be worth a phone call to confirm.
Given the amount of rain the UK gets, if you get semi slicks you need to have 2 sets of wheels.
I disagree with the harness being needed for the bucket seat. The seat on its own will keep you in place far better than a standard seat and it's not as if you'll be pulling big Gs.
Roll bar and seats, then brakes (pads & fluid) and a good wheel alignment to get as much negative camber as possible. As another said, see how it goes from there. I would stay on road tyres. Sticky tyres will accentuate body roll so you would probably want to go to stiffer springs before sticky tyres.
I disagree with the harness being needed for the bucket seat. The seat on its own will keep you in place far better than a standard seat and it's not as if you'll be pulling big Gs.
Roll bar and seats, then brakes (pads & fluid) and a good wheel alignment to get as much negative camber as possible. As another said, see how it goes from there. I would stay on road tyres. Sticky tyres will accentuate body roll so you would probably want to go to stiffer springs before sticky tyres.
Sorry went a bit dark on this one.
I've been working on the car all week (cutting out rot
)and not had time to reply.
k up, you're right into a tire wall.
If I am going to stick road tires (my initial intention) then I am going to have to find some brand/model that is affordable, I currently have Uniroyal Rain Sports on and they have done 2 dry days and 1 wet day. I have an open diff so the outside rear tire is getting wrecked, I've got another day booked on the 8th and I think that tire is going to be dead by the end of day.
Also to others, I have had tuition in the past but not much, about 4 hours worth. I would consider myself past a completely stock car. As someone said here, doing nothing is the cheapest option, I know, but it's not like I'm Sunday driving the track so some modest uprated parts is kinda my goal here.
I am also in the process of sourcing a rollbar + seats, there is a possibility that I may get a cage as opposed to a rollbar because wife paranoid, understandably.
I've been working on the car all week (cutting out rot
)and not had time to reply.Dave200 said:
Sort the brakes and tyres at a cost that you're comfortable with, then drive it and fix it. It doesn't need to be any more complicated than that.
That is kinda what I'm doing, there just seems to be a lot of options at my price points. For instance, pads can be had from £50-120 and I'm OK with that price but what pads? Tires are the same, tons of street tires in the low mid tier range, no idea what to choose.BandOfBrothers said:
Don't actually do trackdays - there are outfits around that do driver training and informal sprints ar airfields at around half the cost of a track day but just as fun in a low (or high) bhp car.
Car limits do them at North Weald, I believe.
There is also a local-ish airfield place near me but the airfield is listed so it's patched quite heavily in areas. It's used for drag, drift and grip events but I can't see me ever going there because there is literally no room if you fCar limits do them at North Weald, I believe.
k up, you're right into a tire wall.braddo said:
Given the amount of rain the UK gets, if you get semi slicks you need to have 2 sets of wheels.
I disagree with the harness being needed for the bucket seat. The seat on its own will keep you in place far better than a standard seat and it's not as if you'll be pulling big Gs.
Roll bar and seats, then brakes (pads & fluid) and a good wheel alignment to get as much negative camber as possible. As another said, see how it goes from there. I would stay on road tyres. Sticky tyres will accentuate body roll so you would probably want to go to stiffer springs before sticky tyres.
I am currently running Mintex 1144 front and rear and those are mentioned here already. I am running some AP racing brake fluid, but happy to change over to another brand once this container is used up.I disagree with the harness being needed for the bucket seat. The seat on its own will keep you in place far better than a standard seat and it's not as if you'll be pulling big Gs.
Roll bar and seats, then brakes (pads & fluid) and a good wheel alignment to get as much negative camber as possible. As another said, see how it goes from there. I would stay on road tyres. Sticky tyres will accentuate body roll so you would probably want to go to stiffer springs before sticky tyres.
If I am going to stick road tires (my initial intention) then I am going to have to find some brand/model that is affordable, I currently have Uniroyal Rain Sports on and they have done 2 dry days and 1 wet day. I have an open diff so the outside rear tire is getting wrecked, I've got another day booked on the 8th and I think that tire is going to be dead by the end of day.
Also to others, I have had tuition in the past but not much, about 4 hours worth. I would consider myself past a completely stock car. As someone said here, doing nothing is the cheapest option, I know, but it's not like I'm Sunday driving the track so some modest uprated parts is kinda my goal here.
I am also in the process of sourcing a rollbar + seats, there is a possibility that I may get a cage as opposed to a rollbar because wife paranoid, understandably.
A cage means wearing a helmet at all times in the car. Not cheap and not money well spent!
I would not touch rainsports except as wet-only tyres. Given how much tyre tech has improved in recent years, personally i would be trying a new design that scores highly in recent tyre tests, say in the dry handling section.
Even if it has ‘eco’ in the name, the latest Conti etc prob has better grip than the ancient michelin ps3 or toyo proxe.
I would not touch rainsports except as wet-only tyres. Given how much tyre tech has improved in recent years, personally i would be trying a new design that scores highly in recent tyre tests, say in the dry handling section.
Even if it has ‘eco’ in the name, the latest Conti etc prob has better grip than the ancient michelin ps3 or toyo proxe.
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