Junior Doctors' Pay Claim Poll

[pghstochaj]

sawman said:

pghstochaj said:

There are only about 10,000 medical graduates in total, per annum?

Yes but potential GP trainees will have been through foundation years, may have started (and possibly finished) or not been able to access specialist training in a secondary care setting, so the pool of applicants could be from a post grad pool of 10 years or so of medical school graduates

I don't really understand your point. There are about 4,000 GP training posts per annum and c. 10,000 total medics graduating per annum. Since most medics do not become a GP, that seems perfectly sensible. There will be very few doctors that are still waiting to become a GP ten years after graduating, they will have long since picked a different speciality.

A quick check suggests that there are 132k doctors within the NHS, of which about 52k are GPs. This happens to be 40%, exactly the same percentage as the number of GP training posts versus the total number of medic graduates per annum. That's not a coincidence.

It's not about the pool that might have failed, it's about continuously matching the need for GPs.

Edit: to add:

"12000 applications for 4000 gp training posts leaves 8000 highly skilled young docs looking elsewhere for gainful employment"

Absolutely, like every other discipline in medicine other than general practice, you know, the bulk of medicine.

Edited by pghstochaj on Friday 17th May 10:57

[sawman]

not sure its as linear a relationship as you make out. More and more GPs are working part time, in an effert to retain their sanity, unfortunately the training time is the same for part time and full time.

Here is an article: https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/education-and-tr...

[Dixy]

Tomorrow I will spend the afternoon and evening with 7 junior doctors and one new GP partner, all in their early thirties, all have been studying and taking exams on top of 48 hour + working weeks for the last 10 years. Most Fellows of their chosen specialty Royal Colleges. All being paid considerably less than I make and all contributing far more to society.
It will be interesting to gage the atmosphere.

[gangzoom]

sawman said:

not sure its as linear a relationship as you make out. More and more GPs are working part time, in an effert to retain their sanity, unfortunately the training time is the same for part time and full time.

Here is an article: https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/education-and-tr...

It makes you feel old when available 'historical' data doesn't come close to capturing your own lived experience

[JagLover]

sawman said:

not sure its as linear a relationship as you make out. More and more GPs are working part time, in an effert to retain their sanity, unfortunately the training time is the same for part time and full time.

Here is an article: https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/education-and-tr...

I think it is mostly working Mothers that are behind the rise in part time hours among GPs.

https://bjgpopen.org/content/7/4/BJGPO.2022.0173#:...

The number of GPs has gone up, by around 40% since 2000, but total hours worked by all GPs has gone up only slightly due to less hours being worked and the trend toward part time working.

[AstonZagato]

There is a whole separate debate about how medical schools now admit more than 50% women and those women have, if they have children, a preference for working part time.

To be clear, I think this is a very good thing (I'm married to a female doctor who has worked part time since our children were born).

However, it does suggest that we need to train many more doctors (and that numbers of doctors employed by the NHS is not a useful statistic - but FTE would be).

[Dixy]

Well in 6 weeks time it will be Starmers problem

[spaximus]

Dixy said:

Well in 6 weeks time it will be Starmers problem

Yes and it will start all over again as the negotiations with the previous government will not continue in the current form

[ConnectionError]

And the need to factor in evening, weekend shifts and overtime etc that Labour have announced to “fix” the NHS.

[Vasco]

I wonder just how long Labour will take to 'sort out the NHS'....

[chemistry]

spaximus said:

As for Gp positions, again she has several friends who are Gp’s not partners and in one they lost two Gp,s and have replaced with PA’s as they are half the cost of a Gp, but are half the person which is shameful.

For what it's worth, there's a petition here asking the Government to revaluate the role of Physician Associates: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/658123

[Dixy]

Well Starmer would you care to coment.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-69072640

[ArmaghMan]

JagLover said:

sawman said:

not sure its as linear a relationship as you make out. More and more GPs are working part time, in an effert to retain their sanity, unfortunately the training time is the same for part time and full time.

Here is an article: https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/education-and-tr...

I think it is mostly working Mothers that are behind the rise in part time hours among GPs.

https://bjgpopen.org/content/7/4/BJGPO.2022.0173#:...

The number of GPs has gone up, by around 40% since 2000, but total hours worked by all GPs has gone up only slightly due to less hours being worked and the trend toward part time working.

Mrs. AM is a GP partner. Total hours she works bears no relation to her contracted sessions.
Most GPs we know are in exactly the same boat.
No life. Wouldn't wish it on Rishi Sunak ( and that's really saying something).

[S600BSB]

ArmaghMan said:

Mrs. AM is a GP partner. Total hours she works bears no relation to her contracted sessions.
Most GPs we know are in exactly the same boat.
No life. Wouldn't wish it on Rishi Sunak ( and that's really saying something).

Same.