142 MPH in Scotland... anyone here?
Discussion
Glenn63 said:
Dave200 said:
Glenn63 said:
BandOfBrothers said:
heebeegeetee said:
BandOfBrothers said:
heebeegeetee said:
BandOfBrothers said:
Not forgetting that many of our European cousins are legally allowed to drive at significantly higher speeds than us often on significantly worse quality roads than ours even on busy roads, giving lie to the clear nonsense that exceeding an arbitrary limit in itself is inherently dangerous.
Not sure about that. Only one nation is allowed to travel at significantly higher speeds, and their roads are not worse than ours. It's possible that the speed limit on a road of that type in UK has the same limit as Germany, if not higher. (60mph v 90kph?) Germany has 90 million people, France (80 mph limit on motorways) has 60 odd million. That's 150 million of our near neighbours who are legally allowed to drive significantly faster than us.
In terms of France and Germany, to say their roads are significantly worse than ours is quite the opposite of the reality, I think you really are arguing black is white with that one, I just don't understand that comment at all.
Glenn63 said:
Dave200 said:
Glenn63 said:
BandOfBrothers said:
heebeegeetee said:
BandOfBrothers said:
heebeegeetee said:
BandOfBrothers said:
Not forgetting that many of our European cousins are legally allowed to drive at significantly higher speeds than us often on significantly worse quality roads than ours even on busy roads, giving lie to the clear nonsense that exceeding an arbitrary limit in itself is inherently dangerous.
Not sure about that. Only one nation is allowed to travel at significantly higher speeds, and their roads are not worse than ours. It's possible that the speed limit on a road of that type in UK has the same limit as Germany, if not higher. (60mph v 90kph?) Germany has 90 million people, France (80 mph limit on motorways) has 60 odd million. That's 150 million of our near neighbours who are legally allowed to drive significantly faster than us.
In terms of France and Germany, to say their roads are significantly worse than ours is quite the opposite of the reality, I think you really are arguing black is white with that one, I just don't understand that comment at all.
If we want to do better on that score surely we have to look at countries performing better than us not worse?
vonhosen said:
Glenn63 said:
Dave200 said:
Glenn63 said:
BandOfBrothers said:
heebeegeetee said:
BandOfBrothers said:
heebeegeetee said:
BandOfBrothers said:
Not forgetting that many of our European cousins are legally allowed to drive at significantly higher speeds than us often on significantly worse quality roads than ours even on busy roads, giving lie to the clear nonsense that exceeding an arbitrary limit in itself is inherently dangerous.
Not sure about that. Only one nation is allowed to travel at significantly higher speeds, and their roads are not worse than ours. It's possible that the speed limit on a road of that type in UK has the same limit as Germany, if not higher. (60mph v 90kph?) Germany has 90 million people, France (80 mph limit on motorways) has 60 odd million. That's 150 million of our near neighbours who are legally allowed to drive significantly faster than us.
In terms of France and Germany, to say their roads are significantly worse than ours is quite the opposite of the reality, I think you really are arguing black is white with that one, I just don't understand that comment at all.
If we want to do better on that score surely we have to look at countries performing better than us not worse?
The point is even with no speed limit not just a higher one and A roads not motorways there’s still not cars launching off into the hedges at every bend. We just live in a nanny state where everyone seems to think cars implode over 70mph.
But we don't want their death rates do we?
It seems they are starting to think like they don't either.
RSP IoM said:
Speed limits and vehicle checks are among the "most effective ways" to reduce deaths and injuries on Manx roads, a road safety forum has said.
Promotion of better driving standards during the TT is also included in the Road Safety Partnership's (RSP) report.
It is targeting a 40% cut in serious and fatal collisions by 2029.
RSP chairman Supt Stephen Maddocks said "genuine progress" would be limited unless the "difficult policy decisions" were taken.
Promotion of better driving standards during the TT is also included in the Road Safety Partnership's (RSP) report.
It is targeting a 40% cut in serious and fatal collisions by 2029.
RSP chairman Supt Stephen Maddocks said "genuine progress" would be limited unless the "difficult policy decisions" were taken.
Ken_Code said:
Dave200 said:
Blimey. There's so little unlimited road on that tiny island that it's barely worth talking about in real terms.
You are going to have your mind blown when you find out how much conversation there is about a single 14 mike-long toll road in Germany.Edited by Dave200 on Wednesday 15th May 09:32
Glenn63 said:
vonhosen said:
Glenn63 said:
Dave200 said:
Glenn63 said:
BandOfBrothers said:
heebeegeetee said:
BandOfBrothers said:
heebeegeetee said:
BandOfBrothers said:
Not forgetting that many of our European cousins are legally allowed to drive at significantly higher speeds than us often on significantly worse quality roads than ours even on busy roads, giving lie to the clear nonsense that exceeding an arbitrary limit in itself is inherently dangerous.
Not sure about that. Only one nation is allowed to travel at significantly higher speeds, and their roads are not worse than ours. It's possible that the speed limit on a road of that type in UK has the same limit as Germany, if not higher. (60mph v 90kph?) Germany has 90 million people, France (80 mph limit on motorways) has 60 odd million. That's 150 million of our near neighbours who are legally allowed to drive significantly faster than us.
In terms of France and Germany, to say their roads are significantly worse than ours is quite the opposite of the reality, I think you really are arguing black is white with that one, I just don't understand that comment at all.
If we want to do better on that score surely we have to look at countries performing better than us not worse?
The point is even with no speed limit not just a higher one and A roads not motorways there’s still not cars launching off into the hedges at every bend. We just live in a nanny state where everyone seems to think cars implode over 70mph.
As someone who does a lot of late night driving it's absolutely painful sitting at 50mph on a well lit, dry, straight, well maintained dual carriageway, but I guess I should be grateful that I'm not allowed to be killing myself and a bus load of school kids at 2am at 80 mph.
Dave200 said:
Ken_Code said:
Dave200 said:
Blimey. There's so little unlimited road on that tiny island that it's barely worth talking about in real terms.
You are going to have your mind blown when you find out how much conversation there is about a single 14 mike-long toll road in Germany.Edited by Dave200 on Wednesday 15th May 09:32
So why are we limited to 70 mph on our better roads in ideal conditions?
We seem to be able to drop the limit to 40 mph at the faintest sign that someone 5 miles away might have dropped a crisp packet, but at 5am on a bright sunny morning on freshly built 4 lane motorways God forbid you go above 70 mph.
BandOfBrothers said:
Dave200 said:
Ken_Code said:
Dave200 said:
Blimey. There's so little unlimited road on that tiny island that it's barely worth talking about in real terms.
You are going to have your mind blown when you find out how much conversation there is about a single 14 mike-long toll road in Germany.Edited by Dave200 on Wednesday 15th May 09:32
So why are we limited to 70 mph on our better roads in ideal conditions?
We seem to be able to drop the limit to 40 mph at the faintest sign that someone 5 miles away might have dropped a crisp packet, but at 5am on a bright sunny morning on freshly built 4 lane motorways God forbid you go above 70 mph.
Germany also has twice the length of roads that the UK does, for a similar sized population, which means that traffic density (and the propensity for collisions) is naturally much lower. That they still have a higher death rate than the UK doesn't suggest they are particularly safer.
"I went to Germany and drove at 150mph and lived to tell the tale" isn't really a very compelling argument for raising/removing speed limits in the UK.
Dave200 said:
Statistically speaking, British roads are safer than German roads, both in terms of deaths per population and deaths per distance driven. Sure, that doesn't make German roads inherently unsafe, but it also doesn't point to a clear argument to raise/remove the limits in the UK either.
Germany also has twice the length of roads that the UK does, for a similar sized population, which means that traffic density (and the propensity for collisions) is naturally much lower. That they still have a higher death rate than the UK doesn't suggest they are particularly safer.
"I went to Germany and drove at 150mph and lived to tell the tale" isn't really a very compelling argument for raising/removing speed limits.
That still doesn't tell us that unregulated autobahns are more dangerous than regulated motorways. Do you have comparative stats for where those deaths occured, ie autobahn, country road or urban?Germany also has twice the length of roads that the UK does, for a similar sized population, which means that traffic density (and the propensity for collisions) is naturally much lower. That they still have a higher death rate than the UK doesn't suggest they are particularly safer.
"I went to Germany and drove at 150mph and lived to tell the tale" isn't really a very compelling argument for raising/removing speed limits.
thegreenhell said:
Dave200 said:
Statistically speaking, British roads are safer than German roads, both in terms of deaths per population and deaths per distance driven. Sure, that doesn't make German roads inherently unsafe, but it also doesn't point to a clear argument to raise/remove the limits in the UK either.
Germany also has twice the length of roads that the UK does, for a similar sized population, which means that traffic density (and the propensity for collisions) is naturally much lower. That they still have a higher death rate than the UK doesn't suggest they are particularly safer.
"I went to Germany and drove at 150mph and lived to tell the tale" isn't really a very compelling argument for raising/removing speed limits.
That still doesn't tell us that unregulated autobahns are more dangerous than regulated motorways. Do you have comparative stats for where those deaths occured, ie autobahn, country road or urban?Germany also has twice the length of roads that the UK does, for a similar sized population, which means that traffic density (and the propensity for collisions) is naturally much lower. That they still have a higher death rate than the UK doesn't suggest they are particularly safer.
"I went to Germany and drove at 150mph and lived to tell the tale" isn't really a very compelling argument for raising/removing speed limits.
It's worth remembering that the road in question was only a two-lane A-road, so wouldn't have been derestricted even in Germany.
Dave200 said:
Statistically speaking, British roads are safer than German roads, both in terms of deaths per population and deaths per distance driven. Sure, that doesn't make German roads inherently unsafe, but it also doesn't point to a clear argument to raise/remove the limits in the UK either.
Germany also has twice the length of roads that the UK does, for a similar sized population, which means that traffic density (and the propensity for collisions) is naturally much lower. That they still have a higher death rate than the UK doesn't suggest they are particularly safer.
......
Germany also has more Germans!Germany also has twice the length of roads that the UK does, for a similar sized population, which means that traffic density (and the propensity for collisions) is naturally much lower. That they still have a higher death rate than the UK doesn't suggest they are particularly safer.
......
thegreenhell said:
Dave200 said:
Statistically speaking, British roads are safer than German roads, both in terms of deaths per population and deaths per distance driven. Sure, that doesn't make German roads inherently unsafe, but it also doesn't point to a clear argument to raise/remove the limits in the UK either.
Germany also has twice the length of roads that the UK does, for a similar sized population, which means that traffic density (and the propensity for collisions) is naturally much lower. That they still have a higher death rate than the UK doesn't suggest they are particularly safer.
"I went to Germany and drove at 150mph and lived to tell the tale" isn't really a very compelling argument for raising/removing speed limits.
That still doesn't tell us that unregulated autobahns are more dangerous than regulated motorways. Do you have comparative stats for where those deaths occured, ie autobahn, country road or urban?Germany also has twice the length of roads that the UK does, for a similar sized population, which means that traffic density (and the propensity for collisions) is naturally much lower. That they still have a higher death rate than the UK doesn't suggest they are particularly safer.
"I went to Germany and drove at 150mph and lived to tell the tale" isn't really a very compelling argument for raising/removing speed limits.
Last year when I was in Germany there were lots of 18.6mph limits in towns enforced with cameras for environmental reasons.
vonhosen said:
Germany does better than us in towns & worse than us on motorways (& worse than us overall). Germany's motorway fatality rate per billion km is about twice ours.
Last year when I was in Germany there were lots of 18.6mph limits in towns enforced with cameras for environmental reasons.
I live on the Continent. I agree with your overall premise but take issue with 'lots' of camera-moderated low speed limits. Sure, they're not unknown but they're not exactly common either. Last year when I was in Germany there were lots of 18.6mph limits in towns enforced with cameras for environmental reasons.
In general, I find Germans in particular to be significantly more speed-limit-aware than most Brits. They might go for it on an unrestricted autobahn but I agree with you that they are pretty compliant when it comes to the urban 70 and 50 kph zones.
CharlesdeGaulle said:
vonhosen said:
Germany does better than us in towns & worse than us on motorways (& worse than us overall). Germany's motorway fatality rate per billion km is about twice ours.
Last year when I was in Germany there were lots of 18.6mph limits in towns enforced with cameras for environmental reasons.
I live on the Continent. I agree with your overall premise but take issue with 'lots' of camera-moderated low speed limits. Sure, they're not unknown but they're not exactly common either. Last year when I was in Germany there were lots of 18.6mph limits in towns enforced with cameras for environmental reasons.
In general, I find Germans in particular to be significantly more speed-limit-aware than most Brits. They might go for it on an unrestricted autobahn but I agree with you that they are pretty compliant when it comes to the urban 70 and 50 kph zones.
I'll see if much has changed when I go back this year.
They do like an Úmleitung too, but that's the cost of the good surfaced roads between those villages I suppose.
vonhosen said:
thegreenhell said:
Dave200 said:
Statistically speaking, British roads are safer than German roads, both in terms of deaths per population and deaths per distance driven. Sure, that doesn't make German roads inherently unsafe, but it also doesn't point to a clear argument to raise/remove the limits in the UK either.
Germany also has twice the length of roads that the UK does, for a similar sized population, which means that traffic density (and the propensity for collisions) is naturally much lower. That they still have a higher death rate than the UK doesn't suggest they are particularly safer.
"I went to Germany and drove at 150mph and lived to tell the tale" isn't really a very compelling argument for raising/removing speed limits.
That still doesn't tell us that unregulated autobahns are more dangerous than regulated motorways. Do you have comparative stats for where those deaths occured, ie autobahn, country road or urban?Germany also has twice the length of roads that the UK does, for a similar sized population, which means that traffic density (and the propensity for collisions) is naturally much lower. That they still have a higher death rate than the UK doesn't suggest they are particularly safer.
"I went to Germany and drove at 150mph and lived to tell the tale" isn't really a very compelling argument for raising/removing speed limits.
Last year when I was in Germany there were lots of 18.6mph limits in towns enforced with cameras for
CharlesdeGaulle said:
I live on the Continent. I agree with your overall premise but take issue with 'lots' of camera-moderated low speed limits. Sure, they're not unknown but they're not exactly common either.
In general, I find Germans in particular to be significantly more speed-limit-aware than most Brits. They might go for it on an unrestricted autobahn but I agree with you that they are pretty compliant when it comes to the urban 70 and 50 kph zones.
We've been disappointed with German driving standards on recent visits. The amount of tailgating we saw was ridiculous, the amount of high speed tailgating we saw was ridiculous, and in the wet, and at high speed in the wet, it was ridiculous. In general, I find Germans in particular to be significantly more speed-limit-aware than most Brits. They might go for it on an unrestricted autobahn but I agree with you that they are pretty compliant when it comes to the urban 70 and 50 kph zones.
Also, we were really surprised/disappointed at the amount of hand held phone use we saw too.
For balance though, when on foot or on our bikes the amount of patience shown, as in other countries, is now quite incredible, and now quite the opposite experience of Blighty.
Scottish prisoners to be released early to ease overcrowding
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c72p258g99jo
I wonder if this will impact on any potential sentencing
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c72p258g99jo
I wonder if this will impact on any potential sentencing
Janluke said:
Scottish prisoners to be released early to ease overcrowding
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c72p258g99jo
I wonder if this will impact on any potential sentencing
They're just making room for more speeders.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c72p258g99jo
I wonder if this will impact on any potential sentencing
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