Rishi Sunak - Prime Minister
Discussion
This ^^^ is absolutely the right answer. The wedge issue nonsense is way down on people's priorities & massively over inflated in places like this, Until the Tories grasp (and it's far too late for them now) that millions of people out there are living through more month than money, they're screwed & rightly so. The electorate are itching to punish them for the indifference toward them.
I still think there is something in the idea that, in 2019, people voted against Corbyn, rather than pro-Boris.
And that the Conservatives, Cummings and Boris especially, misread this as a massive majority in favour of them and their brilliance. And, also maybe, Brexit at any cost.
The machine had gone into full force against Corbyn - and he scarcely helped himself. Corbyn was a disaster for Labour. Boris and Cummings were unable to separate this from the reasons why they ended up with an 80 seat majority. Egos.
They might have got away with it - had the pandemic not come along. Boris was so ill-suited to the responsibility. Worst person at the worst time.
Because of the pandemic - then Ukraine, Boris had to actually take responsibility and gouvern. And, crucially, to look like he could handle it. To lead. This he could not do. Coupled with the complexities of getting us out of the EU.
Too much for anybody really. But Boris Johnson? Of all people.
And that the Conservatives, Cummings and Boris especially, misread this as a massive majority in favour of them and their brilliance. And, also maybe, Brexit at any cost.
The machine had gone into full force against Corbyn - and he scarcely helped himself. Corbyn was a disaster for Labour. Boris and Cummings were unable to separate this from the reasons why they ended up with an 80 seat majority. Egos.
They might have got away with it - had the pandemic not come along. Boris was so ill-suited to the responsibility. Worst person at the worst time.
Because of the pandemic - then Ukraine, Boris had to actually take responsibility and gouvern. And, crucially, to look like he could handle it. To lead. This he could not do. Coupled with the complexities of getting us out of the EU.
Too much for anybody really. But Boris Johnson? Of all people.
W124 said:
I still think there is something in the idea that, in 2019, people voted against Corbyn, rather than pro-Boris.
And that the Conservatives, Cummings and Boris especially, misread this as a massive majority in favour of them and their brilliance. And, also maybe, Brexit at any cost.
The machine had gone into full force against Corbyn - and he scarcely helped himself. Corbyn was a disaster for Labour. Boris and Cummings were unable to separate this from the reasons why they ended up with an 80 seat majority. Egos.
They might have got away with it - had the pandemic not come along. Boris was so ill-suited to the responsibility. Worst person at the worst time.
Because of the pandemic - then Ukraine, Boris had to actually take responsibility and gouvern. And, crucially, to look like he could handle it. To lead. This he could not do. Coupled with the complexities of getting us out of the EU.
Too much for anybody really. But Boris Johnson? Of all people.
I agree I voted against corbyn who's policies were terrifying. I likely won't vote in the GE as is abstained in the locals too. I won't endorse labour but I can't vote Tory again untill they act like small c conservatives. Boris, Liz and Rishi all seem to have misunderstood what being conservative is. It's not boats and bashing labour. It's a vibrant economy high employment low tax. I don't think we can ever get that backAnd that the Conservatives, Cummings and Boris especially, misread this as a massive majority in favour of them and their brilliance. And, also maybe, Brexit at any cost.
The machine had gone into full force against Corbyn - and he scarcely helped himself. Corbyn was a disaster for Labour. Boris and Cummings were unable to separate this from the reasons why they ended up with an 80 seat majority. Egos.
They might have got away with it - had the pandemic not come along. Boris was so ill-suited to the responsibility. Worst person at the worst time.
Because of the pandemic - then Ukraine, Boris had to actually take responsibility and gouvern. And, crucially, to look like he could handle it. To lead. This he could not do. Coupled with the complexities of getting us out of the EU.
Too much for anybody really. But Boris Johnson? Of all people.
EddieSteadyGo said:
S600BSB said:
Ah, here’s an elderly gent!
Have you noticed how many of your posts include reference to 'old people', usually in a snide and derogatory way? Have you got a problem with older people? Perhaps you blame them for something? Certainly looks that way to me, based on the number of times you refer to it. Maybe you are ageist?S600BSB said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
S600BSB said:
Ah, here’s an elderly gent!
Have you noticed how many of your posts include reference to 'old people', usually in a snide and derogatory way? Have you got a problem with older people? Perhaps you blame them for something? Certainly looks that way to me, based on the number of times you refer to it. Maybe you are ageist?S600BSB said:
Possibly! Certainly in the case of the elderly and daft members of the Conservative Party who inflicted Boris and Truss on the country. They should have know better. I really don’t think it is any surprise that young, educated, professional people have turned their backs on the party. Bravo.
I wasn't referring to Conservative party members. I think you have a rather unpleasant cognitive bias against older people, which is why it occurs so frequently in your posts - you can't hide it! Might be worth reflecting on - prejudices of any kind are not normally something to be embraced.W124 said:
I still think there is something in the idea that, in 2019, people voted against Corbyn, rather than pro-Boris. ...
I think anyone vaguely socialist who didn't want to vote for Corbyn's Labour, might have voted Liberal Democrat rather than Tory?A lot of people in 2019 were voting for Brexit.
I suspect a fair number actually quite liked Boris.
The world has changed a great deal since 2019. I think it's not very helpful to project how people voted then onto today's issues.
Gecko1978 said:
I agree I voted against corbyn who's policies were terrifying. I likely won't vote in the GE as is abstained in the locals too. I won't endorse labour but I can't vote Tory again untill they act like small c conservatives. Boris, Liz and Rishi all seem to have misunderstood what being conservative is. It's not boats and bashing labour. It's a vibrant economy high employment low tax. I don't think we can ever get that back
We can't get that economy back - simple demographics. Nobody has the guts to tell the electorate though.EddieSteadyGo said:
S600BSB said:
Possibly! Certainly in the case of the elderly and daft members of the Conservative Party who inflicted Boris and Truss on the country. They should have know better. I really don’t think it is any surprise that young, educated, professional people have turned their backs on the party. Bravo.
I wasn't referring to Conservative party members. I think you have a rather unpleasant cognitive bias against older people, which is why it occurs so frequently in your posts - you can't hide it! Might be worth reflecting on - prejudices of any kind are not normally something to be embraced.Gecko1978 said:
I agree I voted against corbyn who's policies were terrifying. I likely won't vote in the GE as is abstained in the locals too. I won't endorse labour but I can't vote Tory again untill they act like small c conservatives. Boris, Liz and Rishi all seem to have misunderstood what being conservative is. It's not boats and bashing labour. It's a vibrant economy high employment low tax. I don't think we can ever get that back
Which policies did you find terrifying? OutInTheShed said:
W124 said:
I still think there is something in the idea that, in 2019, people voted against Corbyn, rather than pro-Boris. ...
I think anyone vaguely socialist who didn't want to vote for Corbyn's Labour, might have voted Liberal Democrat rather than Tory?A lot of people in 2019 were voting for Brexit.
I suspect a fair number actually quite liked Boris.
The world has changed a great deal since 2019. I think it's not very helpful to project how people voted then onto today's issues.
Boris was never that popular. Rather, Corbyn was terrifying.
As we see now - people don’t go from left to right (or vice-versa) via the Lib Dems. They just go.
Boris and Cummings could never have believed that fear of their opponent was a factor. No. It had to be them and their brilliance.
Fusion777 said:
z4RRSchris said:
i do wonder if they do any kind of user research on the voting population that isn't their own paid up party members. It seems not. Appealing to such a tiny minority is just such a stupid thing to do. I say this as an ex tory voter who looks at the current bunch as complete idiots.
rwanda
ulez
"culture war"
trans
the green belt
immigration
are things people don't care about
interest rates
housing availability
labour shortages
nhs waiting lists
energy prices
inflation
schools
the environment, clean air
train prices
water prices
a non corrupt government - ppe fraud, cash for questions, etc
are things people do care about
This is correct, by and large. I do think lots of people are concerned about immigration, but much of this may be the effects on schools, hospitals and services, which you've covered.rwanda
ulez
"culture war"
trans
the green belt
immigration
are things people don't care about
interest rates
housing availability
labour shortages
nhs waiting lists
energy prices
inflation
schools
the environment, clean air
train prices
water prices
a non corrupt government - ppe fraud, cash for questions, etc
are things people do care about
Why mention the Telegraph comments section?
Because I assume there’s a very high overlap between people commenting there and either members of the Conservative Party and/or those migrating to Reform. Sunak is trying to shore up his support vs Reform and the rest of them are showing a bit of ankle to the next leadership electorate.
I assume you could make similar points about the Mail.
It’s mental, absolutely demented in fact, but it’s where we are.
basherX said:
housing availability is seen pretty much exclusively as a consequence of immigration.
As far as I can figure out housing availability or lack thereof is a consequence of immigration. However, if we didn't have the level of immigration we'd presumably have an even worse economy?The Daily Telegraph isn't representative of the voting electorate. The Tory's problem is that the members are becoming more marginalised and they're failing to attract new/younger members as might have happened in the past, so they're beholden to an ever smaller group of people who are ever more detached from the rest of the voters.
Well off 60 year olds in Surry will not win them an election, no matter how much they appease them.
Well off 60 year olds in Surry will not win them an election, no matter how much they appease them.
xeny said:
basherX said:
housing availability is seen pretty much exclusively as a consequence of immigration.
As far as I can figure out housing availability or lack thereof is a consequence of immigration. However, if we didn't have the level of immigration we'd presumably have an even worse economy?xeny said:
basherX said:
housing availability is seen pretty much exclusively as a consequence of immigration.
As far as I can figure out housing availability or lack thereof is a consequence of immigration. However, if we didn't have the level of immigration we'd presumably have an even worse economy?“We will stop new housing development” is a vote winner.
all while their kids can’t buy anywhere, their high street dies due to an aging population, etc.
Kier has spoken about forcing local plans to have the required quota of development and to push through in cases where councils are not delivering. I hope he follows up with this.
you could argue that the 600,000 immigrants a year put pressure on housing, but many of those are short term visas, dependants to students etc who go back home. The actual net immigration who stay is pretty low and is needed.
Condi said:
The Daily Telegraph isn't representative of the voting electorate. The Tory's problem is that the members are becoming more marginalised and they're failing to attract new/younger members as might have happened in the past, so they're beholden to an ever smaller group of people who are ever more detached from the rest of the voters.
Well off 60 year olds in Surry will not win them an election, no matter how much they appease them.
Don’t mention age! You are spot on though. As I said in an earlier post, it is no surprise that young, educated, professional people have turned their backs on the Tories.Well off 60 year olds in Surry will not win them an election, no matter how much they appease them.
Condi said:
The Daily Telegraph isn't representative of the voting electorate. The Tory's problem is that the members are becoming more marginalised and they're failing to attract new/younger members as might have happened in the past, so they're beholden to an ever smaller group of people who are ever more detached from the rest of the voters.
Well off 60 year olds in Surry will not win them an election, no matter how much they appease them.
Yeah, that was the point of the post. Well off 60 year olds in Surry will not win them an election, no matter how much they appease them.
W124 said:
I think it is. Because it explains things. It can illuminate.
Boris was never that popular. Rather, Corbyn was terrifying.
As we see now - people don’t go from left to right (or vice-versa) via the Lib Dems. They just go.
Boris and Cummings could never have believed that fear of their opponent was a factor. No. It had to be them and their brilliance.
This. In spades.Boris was never that popular. Rather, Corbyn was terrifying.
As we see now - people don’t go from left to right (or vice-versa) via the Lib Dems. They just go.
Boris and Cummings could never have believed that fear of their opponent was a factor. No. It had to be them and their brilliance.
S600BSB said:
Condi said:
The Daily Telegraph isn't representative of the voting electorate. The Tory's problem is that the members are becoming more marginalised and they're failing to attract new/younger members as might have happened in the past, so they're beholden to an ever smaller group of people who are ever more detached from the rest of the voters.
Well off 60 year olds in Surry will not win them an election, no matter how much they appease them.
Don’t mention age! You are spot on though. As I said in an earlier post, it is no surprise that young, educated, professional people have turned their backs on the Tories.Well off 60 year olds in Surry will not win them an election, no matter how much they appease them.
Free internet anyone?
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