Boeing Starliner

Author
Discussion

N0ddie

381 posts

166 months

Tuesday 8th August 2023
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Some reports now suggesting March 2024 for the first crewed flight. That's another huge delay.

What sort of fines/penalties would Boeing incur if it was to just scrap the Starliner program?

Beati Dogu

8,912 posts

140 months

Wednesday 9th August 2023
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I don’t think they can just cancel it for all sorts of reasons. They’re also supposed to be using Starliner for flights to the planned private space station, Orbital Reef. They need to get it working.

Meanwhile, SpaceX are due to launch Crew-7 to the ISS on 25th August.

Flooble

5,565 posts

101 months

Thursday 10th August 2023
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With Starliner only rated to launch on Atlas, and all the Atlas boosters now booked, what booster would Boeing use to launch any other Starliner missions?

Since they only have two capsules (each rated for 10 flights) they don't have a huge amount of contingency.

E.g. if they complete the Crew Flight Test and the remaining 6 operational missions that will be a total of OFT-1, OFT-2, CFT, Crew1-6 = 9 missions. I'd expect that if they had to put the capsule on a new booster, even if they were allowed to hand-wave the Pad Abort Test and In-Flight Abort test again, there would at least be an uncrewed test flight and a crewed test flight before they started doing operational launches? Leaving them with just nine further flights, and assuming they actually achieve the 10-flight reuse target (my uninformed gut tells me that they probably won't, with some "unexpected issue" limiting reuse)


MartG

Original Poster:

20,707 posts

205 months

Thursday 10th August 2023
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Flooble said:
With Starliner only rated to launch on Atlas, and all the Atlas boosters now booked, what booster would Boeing use to launch any other Starliner missions?
My feeling is that they are hoping NASA will pay for man-rating the Vulcan, rather than Boeing having to pay for it themselves. Not sure who paid to man-rate the Atlas V.

Of course they'd never consider putting it on a Falcon 9 rofl

Beati Dogu

8,912 posts

140 months

Thursday 10th August 2023
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Starliner is supposed to be platform independent, so that includes Falcon 9. Stranger things have happened. What with them trying to offload ULA, they might just want the cheapest lift to space they can get.

Looking at the Orbital Reef blurb, they just mention Boeing will build one of the modules and provide crew transport with Starliner. I can’t see any mention of what rocket it would use. Even New Glenn potentially. Who knows; it’s al vapourware at the moment anyway.

FMOB

971 posts

13 months

Monday 6th May
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Apparently the launch is tonight UK time, considering the problems Boeing is having with their planes, why would anyone risk getting on a spaceship from them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpeg21x7n7qo

Beati Dogu

8,912 posts

140 months

Monday 6th May
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Because it’s their job, basically. They’re both very experienced test pilots and astronauts as well.

Simpo Two

85,705 posts

266 months

Monday 6th May
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FMOB said:
Apparently the launch is tonight UK time, considering the problems Boeing is having with their planes, why would anyone risk getting on a spaceship from them.
People still risk getting on their aeroplanes... and I expect the staff who design and build the space rockets are different from the ones who design and build aeroplanes.

phil-sti

2,686 posts

180 months

Tuesday 7th May
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Scrubbed

Eric Mc

122,113 posts

266 months

Tuesday 7th May
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What I was expecting, to be honest.

Simpo Two

85,705 posts

266 months

Tuesday 7th May
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'"The engineering team has evaluated the vehicle is not in a configuration where we can proceed with flight today," an official in Mission Control said'

= something's broken. Splendid jargon; it reminds me of 'unplanned spontaneous disassembly'...!

Edited by Simpo Two on Tuesday 7th May 10:24

FMOB

971 posts

13 months

Tuesday 7th May
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Simpo Two said:
'"The engineering team has evaluated the vehicle is not in a configuration where we can proceed with flight today," an official in Mission Control said'

= something's broken. Splendid jargon; it reminds me of 'unplanned spontaneous disassembly'...!

Edited by Simpo Two on Tuesday 7th May 10:24
AKA something fell off and the needle on my BS-ometer is bent.

Expect nothing less from Boeing these days.

speedtwelve

3,512 posts

274 months

Tuesday 7th May
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The issue was with an oxygen pressure relief valve on the booster upper-stage. Boeing don't build the booster.

Beati Dogu

8,912 posts

140 months

Tuesday 7th May
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If they’d been launching a satellite they likely would have cycled the valve and carried on if it passed. Since they had crew onboard, their policy is not to do that. So off they come and the valve can be swapped out without destacking apparently.

Gargamel

15,022 posts

262 months

Tuesday 7th May
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Plan to go again on Friday, as others mentioned, this was an Atlas (United Launch Alliance) issue, not a Boeing one.

Good luck to them.


Simpo Two

85,705 posts

266 months

Tuesday 7th May
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Beati Dogu said:
If they’d been launching a satellite they likely would have cycled the valve and carried on if it passed. Since they had crew onboard, their policy is not to do that.
Quite right too with lives at stake.

Do the crew have any means of saving their skins if the thing goes pear-shaped somewhere on its flight? I recall the Apollo emergency nose rocket that could fire the crew capsule to safety.

eharding

13,760 posts

285 months

Tuesday 7th May
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Simpo Two said:
Beati Dogu said:
If they’d been launching a satellite they likely would have cycled the valve and carried on if it passed. Since they had crew onboard, their policy is not to do that.
Quite right too with lives at stake.

Do the crew have any means of saving their skins if the thing goes pear-shaped somewhere on its flight? I recall the Apollo emergency nose rocket that could fire the crew capsule to safety.
They tested the Pad Abort system back in 2019.



Despite the nice Boeing lady claiming "great success" only two of the three main chutes deployed, but NASA trusted Boeing who said that was good enough. I'm not sure they'd be so trusting today.

My fear is that the manned Starliner test might go awry on account of a weight and balance issue, not taking into account the extra mass of the two sets of enormous unisex high-zinc brass balls attached to the crew members willing to fly that thing.

FMOB

971 posts

13 months

Tuesday 7th May
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eharding said:
My fear is that the manned Starliner test might go awry on account of a weight and balance issue, not taking into account the extra mass of the two sets of enormous unisex high-zinc brass balls attached to the crew members willing to fly that thing.
rofl

Simpo Two

85,705 posts

266 months

Tuesday 7th May
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+1. I hope the system works better than the cameraman.

dukeboy749r

2,734 posts

211 months

Friday 10th May
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I just came across this article.

I wonder how much traction/degree of seriousness, NASA will treat this?

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/nasa-contrac...