RE: BMW M3 vs Alpina B3 vs BMW M340i

[911Spanker]

Lowtimer said:

AmazingGrace said:

Genuine question, but does having a discount actually provide that cushion against depreciation?
Maybe only if you are the only one who has managed to get a discount, but if everyone has, then surely the depreciation would be the same?

I'd rather lose half of £80K over three to four years than half of £100K

It's only £10k..hardly worth not getting the car you really want for that.

[Arsecati]

ThunderSpook said:

So you’ve tested 3 cars but only shown pictures of 2 of them? There are basically no pictures of the 340. I was trying to tell what nose it had but there’s not a single decent pic of it.

EXACT same thing! I even double and treble checked, and not one. Considering there are no more words to say about the front of the M3, I thought the Alpina was WAY too much chrome, so was genuinely curious as to how the front the M340 was in comparison. 17 pictures, and it's almost as if the front of the M340 was left out on purpose!

[cerb4.5lee]

Frankychops said:

Without reading all the words, it’s got to be the Alpina?

Why though? Alpina has now died as a company(and lets be fair that isn't difficult to understand why).

Alpina have never really understood where they sit in the marketplace for me, because they market a flashy car with all the silly stripes and silly stickers, yet the folk that actually buy their cars are actually old and boring though to be fair in my opinion.

[Lotusgav]

I was thinking to myself how well written this article was not cottoning on that it was Andrew Frankel but that would explain it 👍 interesting that the B3 is cheaper than the M3 when it’s probably more exclusive. They’re mega bucks here in Aus…

[jigonda]

All great cars in their own right ....... I'm biased, happily owning a de-badged M340i in Oxford green with Cognac leather; and exhaust valve hack so always open. It's the ultimate "daily" stealth machine and is the car in my fleet I'm most likely to lose my licence in, despite others more powerful.
The M3 may be the perfect solution if you can only have one car; but most potential owners of an M3 Touring will have the resources for more than one weapon, probably high performance sportscars. The only people who notice my 340 are serious car guys...... and police !

[Baldchap]

cerb4.5lee said:

Frankychops said:

Without reading all the words, it’s got to be the Alpina?

Why though? Alpina has now died as a company(and lets be fair that isn't difficult to understand why).

Alpina have never really understood where they sit in the marketplace for me, because they market a flashy car with all the silly stripes and silly stickers, yet the folk that actually buy their cars are actually old and boring though to be fair in my opinion.

It hasn't died *yet*, but obviously the writing is well and truly on the wall.

I was talking to an Alpina representative who, interestingly, said they are not going to blather the brand everywhere like they do M logos, rather Alpina will be a Maybach competitor based on the 7 series platform.

ETA: I bought my Alpina at 42. I don't think I'm old and boring!

Edited by Baldchap on Monday 6th May 07:19

[Phooey]

Alpina every day. Looks much better than the M3 IMO.


This is a D3 I saw recently.. it just looked mega in the flesh. The M3 nearby looked a bit Demon Tweeks in comparison - It's hard to forgive that front grill.

Edited by Phooey on Monday 6th May 08:35

[andy-integrale]

Great article and accompanying video from the Intercooler. After using mine as a daily for 12 months I’ve retired it to light duties as I think I will want to keep it for a very long time. Even though it’s based on a mid range family 5 door estate, it feels very special. I believe Alpina within BMW will be focused on the 7 Series / X7 ranges and so B3 and B5 will be no more, in any form.

An earlier poster claimed Alpina did not know their market. I’d have to disagree. They absolutely know their market and values and have quietly delivered on them over many years. Not surprising that the families other main business is fine wine!

Forged 20 Inch wheels are a pothole magnet. The ride on them is remarkable though.


vid

Edited by andy-integrale on Monday 6th May 09:12

Edited by andy-integrale on Monday 6th May 09:14

[cerb4.5lee]

Baldchap said:

ETA: I bought my Alpina at 42. I don't think I'm old and boring!

I've just always struggled with how loud they are on the outside, yet they are quite calm and collected inside though. Plus I believe that they always ride really well too, so that is also a further nod to old and boring in my eyes(however I'm definitely not saying that a nice ride is a bad thing though).

[GianiCakes]

Both the blue and the green, stunning!

[blearyeyedboy]

It's very interesting to see values of old Alpinas. They almost never quite fall into the reach of people who struggle to maintain them.

I think an E46 Alpina B3 is better appointed inside, better value and a more attractive buy than the equivalent M3. I'd never track my own car anyway, so the lower down oomph of Alpinas would suit my driving better.

Fast forwarding to today: If I had enough pennies to buy one to keep for a very long time, I'd buy an Alpina ahead of an M car. It'll keep decent value over time and I think I'd still be glad to own it in 20 years.

For the impecunious peasants among us though , taking an M340i or M335i to Birds seems a viable alternative.

[CABC]

911Spanker said:

Lowtimer said:

AmazingGrace said:

Genuine question, but does having a discount actually provide that cushion against depreciation?
Maybe only if you are the only one who has managed to get a discount, but if everyone has, then surely the depreciation would be the same?

I'd rather lose half of £80K over three to four years than half of £100K

It's only £10k..hardly worth not getting the car you really want for that.

even better, the Alpina has a shallower depreciation curve.

[AmazingGrace]

CABC said:

911Spanker said:

Lowtimer said:

AmazingGrace said:

Genuine question, but does having a discount actually provide that cushion against depreciation?
Maybe only if you are the only one who has managed to get a discount, but if everyone has, then surely the depreciation would be the same?

I'd rather lose half of £80K over three to four years than half of £100K

It's only £10k..hardly worth not getting the car you really want for that.

even better, the Alpina has a shallower depreciation curve.

That was my point but you said it better.
Any car that attracts a hefty discount will depreciate faster - Vauxhalls etc were a prime example. Discounted to the balls and always had crazy depreciation.

From third hand experience you can’t get a discount on a Porsche 911 / 718 so have a stronger FV

[McGee_22]

CarHabit said:

I tried to buy a B3 last year. It was an unregistered stock car that had been sat in the dealer for many months. My opening salvo was to ask for 7% off list. Salesman went to check with manager…came back and said best they can do is some free car mats.

Thought it was playful joking. No really, list price and you get free car mats. I pointed out the car had been in stock for quite a while. I pointed out I’d be happy to take Alpina’s (expensive) finance. I asked if the car mats covered an envelope with £7k cash in them. I got nowhere.

I read more and more about dealers just not giving any discounts and then found out about trade in values. The rarity means no discount on the way in. The rarity means there is a massive discount on the way out.

All in all, I went for an M3T with £20k off list which is a decent cushion against likely depreciation. (It helps the car is awesome and I’m delighted with it).

Lots of votes for the Alpina but CarHabit has nailed it with the reason there are so few about - Sytner, the sole importer, (almost*) never offer a discount.

Someone has to justify the cost and open the wallet and when BMW offer generous discounts on M3's and 340i's and Sytner offer nothing except car mats the decision sometimes makes itself, unless the heart rules the head.

I have 3 older Alpina's, none bought new obviously, but the list prices over the BMW and even ///M models were pretty high even back in the mid-1990's and early 2000's.

1995; BMW 540i £40k, BMW M5 £55k and Alpina B10 4.6, £65k
1997; BMW 750il £75k, Alpina B12 5.7L, £108k
2001; BMW 540i £42.5k, BMW M5 52k, Alpina B10 V8 £57k

If that seems expensive then the actual prices paid once the options list had been plundered were pretty eye-watering.

1995; Alpina B10 4.6 Touring listed at £65,000, final price, £70,250. (Price today, £166,200 - historic inflation calculator)
1997; Alpina B12 5.7 Limousine listed at £108,000, final price, £140,000 (Today, £312,500)
2001; Alpina B10 V8 Touring listed at £57,000, final price £74,000. (Today, £148,250)

Reassuringly expensive or silly expensive? The prices obviously put off buyers as the numbers of UK cars of each of the above were 1, 2 and 12.

if I won the lottery tomorrow though, I'd buy the last of the Alpina cars before the BMW dilution takes complete hold.

*Rather curiously and almost ironically, a letter from Sytner to the buyer of the 1995 car offered a £4000 discount on the car if press photography was permitted. One (obscure) magazine article was published

[NGK210]

Wills2 said:

He's a good writer but a bit aloof on the podcast and YT channel, writing and presenting are two very different skill sets.
…

In general, agreed. But the Frankel vs. Harris drag-race vid, in 2CVs across a field, was epic.

And a much-needed antidote to the ego-fest of chavvery and mis-applied tinted moisturiser that constitutes a Carwow vid.

Oh, and another vote for the B3 here.

[Black S2K]

dbhenshall said:

Baldchap said:

evojam said:

Alpina for me but those tyres and alloys would'nt last a week with the current state of UK roads.

They're better than fine. Coupled with the Alpina setup you wouldn't know they were low profile.

As an owner of a B3 they are fantastic in almost everyway. However 2 notes of caution. The fuel tank is small and the touting range is not good enough for cross country express (@350 miles ) the second is 1 year on I have had 3 bent rims and tow replacement tyres. Yes our roads are poor but also alpina rims are soft as best I can tell.
Very tempted to get winter rims (19”) and tyres to hopefully solve the problem Having said that I am not changing / selling car. I love it as daily

The 20" are very slender forgings and I'm suspicious of the internal air galley.

Think I'd prefer the 19" castings - and they don't look too big. Probably less hassle to clean, too.

[Black S2K]

Phooey said:

Alpina every day. Looks much better than the M3 IMO.


This is a D3 I saw recently.. it just looked mega in the flesh. The M3 nearby looked a bit Demon Tweeks in comparison - It's hard to forgive that front grill.

Edited by Phooey on Monday 6th May 08:35

There's a local B3 like that.

I cannot exactly say why they look so much nicer than a 340i - there's even one of those in a (very expensive!) green paint, but it's still no Alpina. Too much shiny black, I suspect.

I'm afraid I find the M3 too much an oaf chariot by comparison.

Still doesn't quite explain why I consider the 3er so damned ugly, but that's not the case with a B3. It's the same bodyshell...

[runnerbean 14]

Excellent article and of direct interest to me, having had an Alpina D4, and considering another. Frankel knows his stuff and I found myself implicitly believing every word, rather than sceptical as with some other authors. The B58 is a truly excellent engine in its own right, but I'm sure Alpina had their reasons for going with the S58. Shame about the lag, though. Maybe making one of the turbos electric would help.

[ElsieDriver]

Love that Andrew Frankel is on here 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

[runnerbean 14]

Black S2K said:

The 20" are very slender forgings and I'm suspicious of the internal air galley.

Think I'd prefer the 19" castings - and they don't look too big. Probably less hassle to clean, too.

I had 19's on my D4 and never a moment's trouble in 55,000 miles . . . . a better ride than the 20's, too.