How the hell do people afford cars these days?
Discussion
ACCYSTAN said:
Nvidia shares are the exception!
Anyone who invested a penny in any company on the AIM market likely has nothing to show for it a decade later!
Many of the index linked passive funds would have returned an average 8% had you held them for 5 years or more, the S&P 500 has also performed well over the medium term, and extremely well in recent years. The point being dropping a load of cash into a depreciating asset does not make sense when that cash can be put to good work elsewhere, using it as a drawdown for a lease or PCP product.Anyone who invested a penny in any company on the AIM market likely has nothing to show for it a decade later!
okgo said:
Of course it is.
70% of cars are financed and most people are a single bill from debt. People are a shambles.
You seem to take great satisfaction from your misplaced superiority.70% of cars are financed and most people are a single bill from debt. People are a shambles.
Edited by okgo on Sunday 5th May 17:27
Almost every comment you make on multiple threads is condescending and disparaging.
Zj2002 said:
You seem to take great satisfaction from your misplaced superiority.
Almost every comment you make on multiple threads is condescending and disparaging.
Not satisfaction. More amazement at what some folk seem to get themselves into - some of my family are similar. Almost every comment you make on multiple threads is condescending and disparaging.
It’s a forum, people differ.
Theoldguard said:
Many of the index linked passive funds would have returned an average 8% had you held them for 5 years or more, the S&P 500 has also performed well over the medium term, and extremely well in recent years. The point being dropping a load of cash into a depreciating asset does not make sense when that cash can be put to good work elsewhere, using it as a drawdown for a lease or PCP product.
99% of the population has no real interest in the stock market/ S&P 500/ the next Nvidia, despite what PH leads you to believe.At best, they might have a decent pension fund and invest in that.
They want a car on their driveway.
okgo said:
Not satisfaction. More amazement at what some folk seem to get themselves into - some of my family are similar.
It’s a forum, people differ.
As an accountant, I agree on this. To me reading stranger’s bank statements would be like reading GQ magazine or Men’s Health. I genuinely find it fascinating the amount of debt people take on for an image of success.It’s a forum, people differ.
MattsCar said:
99% of the population has no real interest in the stock market/ S&P 500/ the next Nvidia, despite what PH leads you to believe.
At best, they might have a decent pension fund and invest in that.
They want a car on their driveway.
You could be right, I am probably of that mindset now that it can't just be myself and a few mates who invest outside of usual pension stuff. But people are impatient and it's all about having it now without having to work for it first, to me now it's the wrong way to think about things. Once you have worked for it you can often then make it work for you.It just means having to wait a bit longer but the benefits do come later most of the time. At best, they might have a decent pension fund and invest in that.
They want a car on their driveway.
Zj2002 said:
okgo said:
Of course it is.
70% of cars are financed and most people are a single bill from debt. People are a shambles.
You seem to take great satisfaction from your misplaced superiority.70% of cars are financed and most people are a single bill from debt. People are a shambles.
Edited by okgo on Sunday 5th May 17:27
Almost every comment you make on multiple threads is condescending and disparaging.
Although I’ve never had a car on finance myself, I’m not saying no one should have car finance, sometimes it does make sense. But if you’re on £30k a year and spending £400 a month on a car that is depreciating in value, you’re doing it wrong.
S366 said:
It’s not really misplaced superiority though, you don’t need to be wealthy to own a car outright, for £2700 you can buy a reasonable e39 530d like this ( https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306228... )which will be comfortable, reliable and likely to appreciate in value. But that’s not today’s society, most would rather max out their remaining monthly budget to finance a rapidly depreciating 118i that’s 10x its value, of which they’ll always try to justify it by saying they got it because of safety/reliability/tech/etc reasons, but most of the time, the deep down truth is that they got it for image/materialistic reasons.
Although I’ve never had a car on finance myself, I’m not saying no one should have car finance, sometimes it does make sense. But if you’re on £30k a year and spending £400 a month on a car that is depreciating in value, you’re doing it wrong.
There is no universal wrong or right. Although I’ve never had a car on finance myself, I’m not saying no one should have car finance, sometimes it does make sense. But if you’re on £30k a year and spending £400 a month on a car that is depreciating in value, you’re doing it wrong.
I would rather walk everywhere than drive a 21 year old diesel BMW.
pb8g09 said:
As an accountant, I agree on this. To me reading stranger’s bank statements would be like reading GQ magazine or Men’s Health. I genuinely find it fascinating the amount of debt people take on for an image of success.
People are creatures of emotion, not creatures of logic. If everyone behaved rationally and thought logically, they would all be competing to be the richest person in the cemetery. I propose they rename this site, Smugheads, as so many people love to sneer at lifestyle choices of others.
pb8g09 said:
As an accountant, I agree on this. To me reading stranger’s bank statements would be like reading GQ magazine or Men’s Health. I genuinely find it fascinating the amount of debt people take on for an image of success.
I am very interested in what you have said here I have been in business all my life in an industry with famine and feast
I have always avoided debt as I know I could service it in the good times but doubtful about the lean periods
i brought my house in 1987 with two years profits still live in it and work hard but really enjoy these periods of no work as I have no debt to worry about
I have come to the conclusion after 40 years in business that we only really understand how successful as person has been when its is time for them to retire
S366 said:
It’s not really misplaced superiority though, you don’t need to be wealthy to own a car outright, for £2700 you can buy a reasonable e39 530d like this ( https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306228... )which will be comfortable, reliable and likely to appreciate in value. But that’s not today’s society, most would rather max out their remaining monthly budget to finance a rapidly depreciating 118i that’s 10x its value, of which they’ll always try to justify it by saying they got it because of safety/reliability/tech/etc reasons, but most of the time, the deep down truth is that they got it for image/materialistic reasons.
Although I’ve never had a car on finance myself, I’m not saying no one should have car finance, sometimes it does make sense. But if you’re on £30k a year and spending £400 a month on a car that is depreciating in value, you’re doing it wrong.
That BMW costs £415 a year to tax (~£37 pcm on DD), and wouldn't be allow - without additional expense - into the ULEZ @ £12.50, or a £15 minimum congestion charge.Although I’ve never had a car on finance myself, I’m not saying no one should have car finance, sometimes it does make sense. But if you’re on £30k a year and spending £400 a month on a car that is depreciating in value, you’re doing it wrong.
It also failed its MOT last year on a bunch of lights not working (possibly suggesting electrical gremlins remembering it has xenons, and a broken front spring. Further advisories continued for 'underbody corrision' and 'fuel pipe(s) corroded'
Just one look at the MOT history suggests it is quite far from "reliable" or anything that would be cheap to run. It appears to have done no miles since the last MOT was 97,931 in June 2023, and ad still says 97k, so has it sat around perishing further?
As much as people like yourself may look at car finance to be an incredulous form of ownership, consider how much a car like that would cost for a non-practical owner over the course of a year (e.g. garage prices, MOT costs), plus initial ownership purchase cost, then divide it into a monthly amount, then the amount of time they might choose to keep a car (some people like to change now and again) and it's actually quite obvious why someone would choose new/lease.
e.g. £2775 to buy. Some tyres, maybe catching up on some issues... I can easily see a grand being spent on it in the next 12 months for someone paying for all the labour + parts. Let's say that's all it needs for the next two years:
£2775 purchase
£1000 parts & labour (of which 2 annual services is going to easily get near half of that)
£50 MOT
£3825 total, or £159.37 over 24 months. Add on £37 pcm for VED and you're just over £195pcm.
34mpg average WLTP. Let's say 6,000miles per year, so 12k over 2 years. 352.94 gallons required, or 1602.3476 litres
£1.50/l diesel is optimistic, but comes out at £2403.52 in fuel, or £100.15 per month.
So now, all in, you're running it at £295pcm without insurance, in the most optimistic sense, if you don't live or go into a ULEZ/Congestion type area
"But you own it" - but you're a big bill away from it being worth very little in scrap value - and looking at the condition & history of that one is probably more inevitability than risk. The "depreciating" concept only matters if you actually plan on keeping it and selling it - which isn't the case for a lot of people.
As someone who's 'shedded' for 20 years, it's surprising just how much an old car actually costs you, even spannering yourself, when you look at the receipts over a period of 12-24 month.
raspy said:
S366 said:
It’s not really misplaced superiority though, you don’t need to be wealthy to own a car outright, for £2700 you can buy a reasonable e39 530d like this ( https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202306228... )which will be comfortable, reliable and likely to appreciate in value. But that’s not today’s society, most would rather max out their remaining monthly budget to finance a rapidly depreciating 118i that’s 10x its value, of which they’ll always try to justify it by saying they got it because of safety/reliability/tech/etc reasons, but most of the time, the deep down truth is that they got it for image/materialistic reasons.
Although I’ve never had a car on finance myself, I’m not saying no one should have car finance, sometimes it does make sense. But if you’re on £30k a year and spending £400 a month on a car that is depreciating in value, you’re doing it wrong.
There is no universal wrong or right.Although I’ve never had a car on finance myself, I’m not saying no one should have car finance, sometimes it does make sense. But if you’re on £30k a year and spending £400 a month on a car that is depreciating in value, you’re doing it wrong.
I would rather walk everywhere than drive a 21 year old diesel BMW.
cerb4.5lee said:
Completely agree, and it would be a boring world if we all liked the same thing I reckon. For example I'd rather walk everywhere than sit in/drive a Tesla, plus I reckon that I'd still say no thanks if someone offered me a Tesla for free as well. Or I'd at least accept it...and then buy something else with the money instead.
With you on all of that 
okgo said:
I mean - there is right and wrong - tell me how that lady working reception, renting a house, and paying £600 a month out (likely a massive proportion of her post accommodation salary) for that X3 is anything other than completely stupid?
You wouldn't accept it if someone did so no point.Presumably she really likes having a new X3.
monthou said:
You wouldn't accept it if someone did so no point.
Presumably she really likes having a new X3.
I’m sure she does. But she’s an idiot for doing so IMO. We’ve all been idiots of course, I borrowed loads of money for sPresumably she really likes having a new X3.
te cars when I was a teenager but the worrying thing is many people don’t seem to ever grow out of making such irrational decisions. Smug, sneering, judging etc etc whatever. I’m sure she’ll need to be state sponsored fairly significantly later in life too, great.
Edited by okgo on Monday 6th May 12:02
okgo said:
I mean - there is right and wrong - tell me how that lady working reception, renting a house, and paying £600 a month out (likely a massive proportion of her post accommodation salary) for that X3 is anything other than completely stupid?
Knowing nothing else about her personal circumstances it's impossible to judge. Maybe she's just young and enjoying life before eventually settling down? Maybe she's a divorcee sitting on a substantial settlement and isn't ready to commit to anything for a while? Maybe her parents are very well off and supporting her? Maybe she plans to snag a rich fella at some point and never work again? Maybe she already has but isnlt ready to move in with him yet? etc. etc.
Edited by SWoll on Monday 6th May 12:05
SWoll said:
Knowing nothing else about her personal circumstances it's impossible to judge.
Maybe she's just young and enjoying life before eventually settling down? Maybe she's a divorcee sitting on a substantial settlement and isn't ready to commit to anything for a while? Maybe her parents are very well off and supporting her? Maybe she plans to snag a rich fella at some point and never work again? Maybe she already has but isnlt ready to move in with him yet? etc. etc.
Maybe. Probably not though. Maybe she's just young and enjoying life before eventually settling down? Maybe she's a divorcee sitting on a substantial settlement and isn't ready to commit to anything for a while? Maybe her parents are very well off and supporting her? Maybe she plans to snag a rich fella at some point and never work again? Maybe she already has but isnlt ready to move in with him yet? etc. etc.
Edited by SWoll on Monday 6th May 12:05
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