Israel invaded
Discussion
isaldiri said:
Oliver Hardy said:
How many people have died in Yemen? but that is OK it is not the Israelis who are doing the bombing.
Yeah, Israel should absolutely have the right to cause a similar humanitarian crisis to gaza as Yemen and Sudan because it happened elsewhere...z4RRSchris said:
The Yeman and Sudan dont hold themselves up to be part of the west, Israelli do, but want to behave like savages.
it doesnt really matter anyway, the world now hates the israelis, this conflict has damaged their standing more than before in a unrecoverable way.
If most of of Europe don't hate Israelis, not sure how the whole world can hate them?it doesnt really matter anyway, the world now hates the israelis, this conflict has damaged their standing more than before in a unrecoverable way.
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/48218-israe...
There is definitely a shift of attitude towards both parties but no concrete answer.
z4RRSchris said:
The Yeman and Sudan dont hold themselves up to be part of the west, Israelli do, but want to behave like savages.
So that's OK then: As long as a country/government/military doesn't align with the west the number of casualties doesn't matter.z4RRSchris said:
it doesnt really matter anyway, the world now hates the israelis, this conflict has damaged their standing more than before in a unrecoverable way.
I don't think "the world now hates Israelis", but I do agree their standing has been damaged and the opinion/regard others have of the State of Israel (not necessarily Israeli citizens) has been lowered.However I don't believe it is unrecoverable, at least not in the mid to longer term.
z4RRSchris said:
The Yeman and Sudan dont hold themselves up to be part of the west, Israelli do, but want to behave like savages.
it doesnt really matter anyway, the world now hates the israelis, this conflict has damaged their standing more than before in a unrecoverable way.
I think you may have missed the point being made - specifically that those complaining loudest about the loss of life in Gaza and the WB are conspicuously silent when it comes to significant loss of life involving other conflicts in the region. Surely, if you're (not you specifically) outraged by the loss of innocent lives then you should be outraged by the loss of life in other nearby conflicts?it doesnt really matter anyway, the world now hates the israelis, this conflict has damaged their standing more than before in a unrecoverable way.
The difference seems to be that Israel is involved here. Now, for some that difference might be pertinent for the reason you give, specifically that Israel is seen as western and other countries are not. However, I'd say that that "defence" cannot be applied to all posters here, given the general tone of some of their posts. Remember you have posters who think that Hamas has been a good thing for Palestinians, who think that loss of Israeli life is justified because of the imposition of the Israeli state in the region 75+ years ago, who question the events of 7/10, who want Israel removed from the map. THOSE posters don't really care about the suffering of innocents, they just want an end to Israel and the Palestinians are just useful cannon fodder for their cause, just as Hamas believes the same. If they did care about the death of innocents they would have commented on the revised UN figures for casualties last week, - figures that showed far fewer women and children being killed. But that doesn't support their narrative so they ignore it, even though they were happy to trumpet the UN figures previously. Let's us all just be a little bit more honest about that eh?
Anyway, I don't think the world now "hates Israelis", thats a silly claim. I do however think that the world is growing increasingly concerned about Israels perseverance in prosecuting the war against Hamas - a war that cannot possibly end in the complete destruction of Hamas no matter what Netanyahu may want to believe. It's like I said a few weeks ago: we are at the point where Israel has become that friend in a fight that you think you should now restrain because the other guy has had enough. It's clear that a growing number of senior Israeli politicians are coming to the same conclusion, and that there definitely needs to be a firm, transparent plan for the rescue and rebuilding of Gaza after the end of the conflict.
Israel's position is not unrecoverable imho. Many people around the world will recognise that this is far more a complex situation than playground type expressions of "hate". History suggests that once a route to lasting peace is found the bitter memories both sides will fade quite quickly for many people.
andymadmak said:
I think you may have missed the point being made - specifically that those complaining loudest about the loss of life in Gaza and the WB are conspicuously silent when it comes to significant loss of life involving other conflicts in the region. Surely, if you're (not you specifically) outraged by the loss of innocent lives then you should be outraged by the loss of life in other nearby conflicts?
The difference seems to be that Israel is involved here. Now, for some that difference might be pertinent for the reason you give, specifically that Israel is seen as western and other countries are not. However, I'd say that that "defence" cannot be applied to all posters here, given the general tone of some of their posts. Remember you have posters who think that Hamas has been a good thing for Palestinians, who think that loss of Israeli life is justified because of the imposition of the Israeli state in the region 75+ years ago, who question the events of 7/10, who want Israel removed from the map. THOSE posters don't really care about the suffering of innocents, they just want an end to Israel and the Palestinians are just useful cannon fodder for their cause, just as Hamas believes the same. If they did care about the death of innocents they would have commented on the revised UN figures for casualties last week, - figures that showed far fewer women and children being killed. But that doesn't support their narrative so they ignore it, even though they were happy to trumpet the UN figures previously. Let's us all just be a little bit more honest about that eh?
Regardless of how many times this view is put forward, there is no requirement to comment on all conflict's wrongs in order to have an opinion on actions in this conflict.The difference seems to be that Israel is involved here. Now, for some that difference might be pertinent for the reason you give, specifically that Israel is seen as western and other countries are not. However, I'd say that that "defence" cannot be applied to all posters here, given the general tone of some of their posts. Remember you have posters who think that Hamas has been a good thing for Palestinians, who think that loss of Israeli life is justified because of the imposition of the Israeli state in the region 75+ years ago, who question the events of 7/10, who want Israel removed from the map. THOSE posters don't really care about the suffering of innocents, they just want an end to Israel and the Palestinians are just useful cannon fodder for their cause, just as Hamas believes the same. If they did care about the death of innocents they would have commented on the revised UN figures for casualties last week, - figures that showed far fewer women and children being killed. But that doesn't support their narrative so they ignore it, even though they were happy to trumpet the UN figures previously. Let's us all just be a little bit more honest about that eh?
911hope said:
Regardless of how many times this view is put forward, there is no requirement to comment on all conflict's wrongs in order to have an opinion on actions in this conflict.
Under normal circumstances I would agree completely. But it's suspicious when certain posters ONLY ever comment on this conflict and even refuse to be drawn to make any comment on loss of life elsewhere. No doubt you'll have your reasons, just as I can feel justified in reaching the conclusions I do about it. The title of this thread is 'Israel Invaded', (how inappropriate).
Now if people want to muddy the waters and deflect directly or indirectly from the Palestinian/Israeli crisis then that's fine but Sudan and Yemen justify another thread just based on the loss of life alone surly! And considering one or two posters concerns of what's happening in those in countries even more of a reason to open a new thread.
Then again if people wish to link and compare Israel with Sudan and Yemen, don't let me stop you!
Now if people want to muddy the waters and deflect directly or indirectly from the Palestinian/Israeli crisis then that's fine but Sudan and Yemen justify another thread just based on the loss of life alone surly! And considering one or two posters concerns of what's happening in those in countries even more of a reason to open a new thread.
Then again if people wish to link and compare Israel with Sudan and Yemen, don't let me stop you!
thats b
ks,
sudan - civial war between two factions. both lightly armed with hi-lux pickups and gmpgs. Russian / China picking sides but not really. terrible but its internal conflict.
Yeman - cival war between gov (saudi) and houthis (iran). both lightly armed, Saudi providing the of bit of air support with US weapons. Saudi arnt exactly the bastion of world standing, they murder journalists and behead people. terrible, its a proxy war.
israel - occupation between occupiers with the most heavily armed and advanced offensive and defensive weapons going v hamas & others with light weapons and the odd home made rocket, trapped in a cage amongst 2.5m civilians.
yeman and sudan have hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, but they dont claim to be part of the western demoracy, if you want to behave like savages then we should treat israel like savages. ill take away eurovision and the euros that will teach you,
ks, sudan - civial war between two factions. both lightly armed with hi-lux pickups and gmpgs. Russian / China picking sides but not really. terrible but its internal conflict.
Yeman - cival war between gov (saudi) and houthis (iran). both lightly armed, Saudi providing the of bit of air support with US weapons. Saudi arnt exactly the bastion of world standing, they murder journalists and behead people. terrible, its a proxy war.
israel - occupation between occupiers with the most heavily armed and advanced offensive and defensive weapons going v hamas & others with light weapons and the odd home made rocket, trapped in a cage amongst 2.5m civilians.
yeman and sudan have hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, but they dont claim to be part of the western demoracy, if you want to behave like savages then we should treat israel like savages. ill take away eurovision and the euros that will teach you,
z4RRSchris said:
thats bks,
Of course it is! They'll do and say anything to take the spotlight off the Israeli atrocities. I'm surprised these Israeli apologists haven't mentioned China, Mayamar etc,etc. The implication is very simple, if people don't talk about other world conflicts then they've no right to discuss the slaughter of the Palestinians by Israel both prior to Oct 7 and currently. ks, Yep, as you said pure b
ks!JJJ. said:
Of course it is! They'll do and say anything to take the spotlight off the Israeli atrocities. I'm surprised these Israeli apologists haven't mentioned China, Mayamar etc,etc. The implication is very simple, if people don't talk about other world conflicts then they've no right to discuss the slaughter of the Palestinians by Israel both prior to Oct 7 and currently.
Yep, as you said pure bks!
Can you both point me to your comments on the losses of life in Yemen and elsewhere? I agree they don't have to be in the Israeli/Gaza thread, but I assume you've made your concerns about this other loss of life very clear elsewhere? Yep, as you said pure b
ks!https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-6902542...
Revised UN figures for death toll in Gaza. Women and children down from 69% to 52%, total death toll remains the same @ 35,000. Israel and the fan club are delighted with themselves!
Proof if ever of how fked up mentalities work.
P.s. let's not forget the Palestinian death in the West Bank either, never mind the atrocities ,that's another 500 killed since Oct 7!
Revised UN figures for death toll in Gaza. Women and children down from 69% to 52%, total death toll remains the same @ 35,000. Israel and the fan club are delighted with themselves!
Proof if ever of how f
ked up mentalities work.P.s. let's not forget the Palestinian death in the West Bank either, never mind the atrocities ,that's another 500 killed since Oct 7!
Edited by JJJ. on Monday 20th May 12:39
JJJ. said:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-6902542...
Revised UN figures for death toll in Gaza. Women and children down from 69% to 52%, total death toll remains the same @ 35,000. Israel and the fan club are delighted with themselves!
Proof if ever of how fked up mentalities work.
Do keep up, I posted this previously. Who said anyone is delighted (least of all with themselves)? It does illustrate clearly though that the claims made by Hamas about women and children were somewhat inflated. I wonder why they did that? Revised UN figures for death toll in Gaza. Women and children down from 69% to 52%, total death toll remains the same @ 35,000. Israel and the fan club are delighted with themselves!
Proof if ever of how f
ked up mentalities work.Anyway, IF there is a silver lining to the figures (note the stress on the if) it is that it does show fewer women and children involved, and perhaps (note the perhaps) suggests that the IDF has killed rather more Hamas fighters than was previously thought. Most folk aside from you JJJ (aka Mr "Hamas is a good thing for Palestinians" ) would see that as a positive.
andymadmak said:
JJJ. said:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-6902542...
Revised UN figures for death toll in Gaza. Women and children down from 69% to 52%, total death toll remains the same @ 35,000. Israel and the fan club are delighted with themselves!
Proof if ever of how fked up mentalities work.
Do keep up, I posted this previously. Who said anyone is delighted (least of all with themselves)? It does illustrate clearly though that the claims made by Hamas about women and children were somewhat inflated. I wonder why they did that? Revised UN figures for death toll in Gaza. Women and children down from 69% to 52%, total death toll remains the same @ 35,000. Israel and the fan club are delighted with themselves!
Proof if ever of how f
ked up mentalities work.Anyway, IF there is a silver lining to the figures (note the stress on the if) it is that it does show fewer women and children involved, and perhaps (note the perhaps) suggests that the IDF has killed rather more Hamas fighters than was previously thought. Most folk aside from you JJJ (aka Mr "Hamas is a good thing for Palestinians" ) would see that as a positive.
JJJ. said:
z4RRSchris said:
thats bks,
Of course it is! They'll do and say anything to take the spotlight off the Israeli atrocities. I'm surprised these Israeli apologists haven't mentioned China, Mayamar etc,etc. The implication is very simple, if people don't talk about other world conflicts then they've no right to discuss the slaughter of the Palestinians by Israel both prior to Oct 7 and currently. ks, Yep, as you said pure b
ks!Israel will never give up what they believe is their sacred land. Palestinians and other Arab countries will never give up what is written in the Hadiths (Sunnah).
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ggpe3qj6wo
The chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court has applied for arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Hamas's leader in Gaza for war crimes.
Karim Khan said there were reasonable grounds to believe that both men bore criminal responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity from at least 7 October 2023.
The chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court has applied for arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Hamas's leader in Gaza for war crimes.
Karim Khan said there were reasonable grounds to believe that both men bore criminal responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity from at least 7 October 2023.
Mr Penguin said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ggpe3qj6wo
The chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court has applied for arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Hamas's leader in Gaza for war crimes.
Karim Khan said there were reasonable grounds to believe that both men bore criminal responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity from at least 7 October 2023.
Thanks for sharing. The chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court has applied for arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Hamas's leader in Gaza for war crimes.
Karim Khan said there were reasonable grounds to believe that both men bore criminal responsibility for war crimes and crimes against humanity from at least 7 October 2023.
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