Discussion
stinkyspanner said:
Is it just me or is anyone else finding the whole Senna hysteria a bit OTT? I'm not being dismissive, and I remember quite clearly watching it unfold and thinking that he was probably dying before our eyes but I just can't help thinking this is just all a bit much.
It's almost like a competition of who can be the saddest about his death (and the odd token mention of Ratzenberger)
'I was really sad when Senna died'
'Not as sad as me, I was REALLY sad'
'Yeah and now it's 30 years and I'm even more really sad, are you?' Etc etc
I remember it well and was shocked watching it unfold, on top of everything else that weekend. I’d also had a feeling the weekend had another big thing to happen at the race start.It's almost like a competition of who can be the saddest about his death (and the odd token mention of Ratzenberger)
'I was really sad when Senna died'
'Not as sad as me, I was REALLY sad'
'Yeah and now it's 30 years and I'm even more really sad, are you?' Etc etc
I do get what the OP means though. The social media back lash for those daring to not wear a shirt perhaps highlights the whole behaviour. (Though interestingly, there was also a lot a anti-senna sentiment doing the rounds also)
I find the token additions for Roland Ratzenberger make it less tasteful.
No doubt he was a great driver, but the gone before his time factor has ramped up the whole legend status.
I generally find mawkish behaviour has ramped up in recent times.
stinkyspanner said:
Is it just me or is anyone else finding the whole Senna hysteria a bit OTT? I'm not being dismissive, and I remember quite clearly watching it unfold and thinking that he was probably dying before our eyes but I just can't help thinking this is just all a bit much.
It's almost like a competition of who can be the saddest about his death (and the odd token mention of Ratzenberger)
'I was really sad when Senna died'
'Not as sad as me, I was REALLY sad'
'Yeah and now it's 30 years and I'm even more really sad, are you?' Etc etc
I agree with you. I'm a massive Senna fan but I do feel it's a bit ott. It's almost like a competition of who can be the saddest about his death (and the odd token mention of Ratzenberger)
'I was really sad when Senna died'
'Not as sad as me, I was REALLY sad'
'Yeah and now it's 30 years and I'm even more really sad, are you?' Etc etc
Alongside this I can't name specific examples but I feel like it has elements of what happened when MJ died. Lots of people ripped into him but after he died there was a lot of folks that totally changed. I find that quite frustrating and those that have passed are made into godly saints by those who wouldn't have had much time for them beforehand.
Honestly I wasn't hugely sad back in 1994 as Senna had already lived a fulfilling F1 career 3x WDC.
I started following F1 in the 1990s and Senna was difficult to like. It was the 1993 season when I truly appreciated his talent and becoming more of a Senna fan. After his death I wanted to know more about him and I brought Christopher Hilton's biography and the 'Racing is in My Blood' video - I wore out the section of him lapping round Monaco one-handed; the BBC never showed quali till 95/96 let alone YouTube back in the day.
Senna was unique and ferociously talented never seen since. He represents purity of the sport: wanting to be the quickest, maximum attack, and seemingly astute at dancing on the edge of the limit particularly over a single lap c.f. Bellof, IMHO, more naive and reckless.
The all-out attack strategy was also Senna's downfall - 1990 season springs to mind crashing into Nakajima (Brazil) and Mansell (Portugal), and there's the myth that "you're no longer a racing driver if you don't go for the gap".
I started following F1 in the 1990s and Senna was difficult to like. It was the 1993 season when I truly appreciated his talent and becoming more of a Senna fan. After his death I wanted to know more about him and I brought Christopher Hilton's biography and the 'Racing is in My Blood' video - I wore out the section of him lapping round Monaco one-handed; the BBC never showed quali till 95/96 let alone YouTube back in the day.
Senna was unique and ferociously talented never seen since. He represents purity of the sport: wanting to be the quickest, maximum attack, and seemingly astute at dancing on the edge of the limit particularly over a single lap c.f. Bellof, IMHO, more naive and reckless.
The all-out attack strategy was also Senna's downfall - 1990 season springs to mind crashing into Nakajima (Brazil) and Mansell (Portugal), and there's the myth that "you're no longer a racing driver if you don't go for the gap".
It wasn't just the passing of the man, it was the loss of everything he was to the sport. He was the best and likely the best ever but he had the charisma to be the poster boy for the sport in arguably the greatest era of F1. People watched F1 because they wanted to watch him and F1 went through a real doldrums after he died. Nobody since has matched his combination of talent and personality and people who saw him miss what he represented.
CLK-GTR said:
F1 went through a real doldrums after he died.
Is that true? Surely Damon Hill and David Coulthard emerged as the great British heroes and Michael Schumacher absolutely dominated the next decade. As I mentioned earlier, Senna was probably over-driving that Williams in an attempt to keep up with Schumacher.Mind you, I guess it's debateable whether this Max Verstappen era is boom or doldrums.
I don't have a problem with the Senna 'love-in', I did find myself thinking this is a strange way to mark his death at this circuit. Maybe a demo run at Monaco where he was a legend and near where he lived at times would have been more appropriate, but I don't object to how it was done. That said the hairs on my neck stood on end watching Seb take that Mclaren around, it just looked and sounded so right, I think the fact that he drove it so hard helped. You forget F1 used to make you tingle, the sport has lost some of that. Nice to see Roland remembered too. RIP both.
Panamax said:
Is that true? Surely Damon Hill and David Coulthard emerged as the great British heroes and Michael Schumacher absolutely dominated the next decade. As I mentioned earlier, Senna was probably over-driving that Williams in an attempt to keep up with Schumacher.
Mind you, I guess it's debateable whether this Max Verstappen era is boom or doldrums.
Post-Senna F1 was desperate for the next superstar, posterboy; Mansell made his Williams comeback courtesy of Ecclestone; Hill never seemed too comfortable having the limelight shone on him nor did Schumi looked comfortable being put on a pedestal til his Ferrari years.Mind you, I guess it's debateable whether this Max Verstappen era is boom or doldrums.
https://youtu.be/NeFqsWWG1qE?si=PgfqB7lBhiqIW5Wd&a...
He was fascinating!
He was fascinating!
Edited by Piginapoke on Monday 20th May 20:50
Panamax said:
Is that true? Surely Damon Hill and David Coulthard emerged as the great British heroes and Michael Schumacher absolutely dominated the next decade. As I mentioned earlier, Senna was probably over-driving that Williams in an attempt to keep up with Schumacher.
Mind you, I guess it's debateable whether this Max Verstappen era is boom or doldrums.
We had a few years of a very weak field and weak championship winners as the sport scrambled for a new star. Nobody stood out until Hakkinen in 98 and you could argue not until Schumacher in the 2000s.Mind you, I guess it's debateable whether this Max Verstappen era is boom or doldrums.
Piginapoke said:
Awe-inspiring!In comments on the video: "...Ayrton Senna is not dead, he is just one lap ahead of everyone..."
Made I chuckle!I didn’t start following F1 until sometime after Senna died, so his death at the time didn’t really mean much to me. I wonder whether this is why I don’t really feel very much when Senna’s death comes up or people mourn, as they have during this anniversary period.
Also, whilst I understand that Senna was iconic, a life is a life and I sometimes feel slightly uneasy about the magnitude of coverage his death gets over Roland Ratzenburger, which was no less tragic IMO.
Also, whilst I understand that Senna was iconic, a life is a life and I sometimes feel slightly uneasy about the magnitude of coverage his death gets over Roland Ratzenburger, which was no less tragic IMO.
Yes, deification of anyone, however remarkable, is unnecessary. It is people’s humanity, warts, flaws and all that is really interesting.
IIRC there was a good Autosport article that specifically addressed this about Senna. The film about him made things worse IMO.
For me, the person that Senna idolised, Jim Clark, is far more deserving of hagiography. The irony is how different they were.
But in the end, he and all of us are and were human.
IIRC there was a good Autosport article that specifically addressed this about Senna. The film about him made things worse IMO.
For me, the person that Senna idolised, Jim Clark, is far more deserving of hagiography. The irony is how different they were.
But in the end, he and all of us are and were human.
The reason for the 'love-in' of Senna has little to do with his prowess on the track. Many drivers have been as quick, many more clever and plenty more successful (even taking into account the years he spent racing).
Senna was and remains one of only a very small number of F1 drivers that have transcended the sport. The others are Moss, Clark, Stewart, Hunt, Mansell and Hamilton.
What creates this transience is not clear cut. High-profile altruism is a factor but so too is a character and characteristics that differs to their peers and appeals to an audience broader than the fans of a sport.
We see this in other sports too: Muhammad Ali, Pele, etc. I'm not into football but am surrounded by West Ham fans who hold Bobby More to a level of regard that to me, seems out of kilter when you compare him to other players of the time. But I do 'get it'.
The one difference with Senna is that I think for many, the level of his skill was not truly appreciated until after his death when we were presented with no end of documentaries, books and other insights to enabled us a view of the man to levels that were not possible when he was alive.
Senna was and remains one of only a very small number of F1 drivers that have transcended the sport. The others are Moss, Clark, Stewart, Hunt, Mansell and Hamilton.
What creates this transience is not clear cut. High-profile altruism is a factor but so too is a character and characteristics that differs to their peers and appeals to an audience broader than the fans of a sport.
We see this in other sports too: Muhammad Ali, Pele, etc. I'm not into football but am surrounded by West Ham fans who hold Bobby More to a level of regard that to me, seems out of kilter when you compare him to other players of the time. But I do 'get it'.
The one difference with Senna is that I think for many, the level of his skill was not truly appreciated until after his death when we were presented with no end of documentaries, books and other insights to enabled us a view of the man to levels that were not possible when he was alive.
StevieBee said:
The reason for the 'love-in' of Senna has little to do with his prowess on the track. Many drivers have been as quick, many more clever and plenty more successful (even taking into account the years he spent racing).
Senna was and remains one of only a very small number of F1 drivers that have transcended the sport. The others are Moss, Clark, Stewart, Hunt, Mansell and Hamilton.
What creates this transience is not clear cut. High-profile altruism is a factor but so too is a character and characteristics that differs to their peers and appeals to an audience broader than the fans of a sport.
We see this in other sports too: Muhammad Ali, Pele, etc. I'm not into football but am surrounded by West Ham fans who hold Bobby More to a level of regard that to me, seems out of kilter when you compare him to other players of the time. But I do 'get it'.
The one difference with Senna is that I think for many, the level of his skill was not truly appreciated until after his death when we were presented with no end of documentaries, books and other insights to enabled us a view of the man to levels that were not possible when he was alive.
this.Senna was and remains one of only a very small number of F1 drivers that have transcended the sport. The others are Moss, Clark, Stewart, Hunt, Mansell and Hamilton.
What creates this transience is not clear cut. High-profile altruism is a factor but so too is a character and characteristics that differs to their peers and appeals to an audience broader than the fans of a sport.
We see this in other sports too: Muhammad Ali, Pele, etc. I'm not into football but am surrounded by West Ham fans who hold Bobby More to a level of regard that to me, seems out of kilter when you compare him to other players of the time. But I do 'get it'.
The one difference with Senna is that I think for many, the level of his skill was not truly appreciated until after his death when we were presented with no end of documentaries, books and other insights to enabled us a view of the man to levels that were not possible when he was alive.
Senna's & his death is like a layer cake of everything you need to warrant the amount of attention & 'love-in' he gets
1. already an 'icon' that had transcended his sport
2. died too soon
3. died live on TV
4. controversy /conspiracy/ mystery around his death
with regard to the above, he's a pretty unique figure ...& then throw in that it's also a Decennial anniversary & you get why there is the amount of attention there is
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