Official 2024 Emilia Romagna Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**

[PlywoodPascal]

What is the Welsh beef thread please?

[Sandpit Steve]

gmaz said:

Are Red Bull going to realise that Perez may cost them the constructors championship?

If one of their competitors emerges in a clear second place, and they can get two cars regularly on the podium, that’s a distinct possibility.

Although Red Bull will of course tell you they don’t care about the contructors’ championship.

[Big Nanas]

Apologies if mentioned, but in his Notebook, Ted said that Red Bulls sim driver (Buemi) spent 11 hours in the sim working through lots of options to try to fix Max's from end issue. That's a lot of effort!

[Diderot]

TheDeuce said:

Diderot said:

TheDeuce said:

Hustle_ said:

g4ry13 said:

Diderot said:

Excellent end to the race, and great to see Lando right up there again. Piastri 14 seconds adrift though, again showing that he’s nowhere near as good in the race as he is over one lap.

Started 5th and finished 4th on a track which is very difficult to pass on.

I would not rush to come to that conclusion.

He qualified 2nd

It's very often the case that a strong quali result is due to the drivers car being set up with a bias towards quali, at the detriment of race pace.

He qualified well and then also had a perfectly good race, I think it's fair to say he did well.

He did well, for sure in qually. He is immensely strong over one lap. But as has been the case last season and this, he goes rapidly backwards in the race. 14 seconds is a lifetime in F1. Once again, Lando drove away from him at a rate of knots.

Let us not forget that after his pit stop Piastri was about 1.5 seconds behind Lando. Today is a good example where he needs to improve; he mullered his tyres battling with CLC. I would wager that all this talk about Antonelli will result in the same kinds of delta with Russell should he come into F1.

That's my point really - often drivers who struggle in quali end up with a car better setup for quali to compensate, and then subsequently go backwards in the race. It's very hard without knowing the setup bias of each team mates car to actually identify where they're strong/weak.

But I think most times, if a driver gets a rep for being one lap fast and race slow, it's likely due to a car setup being chosen to get them on average as high up as possible.

Bottas at Merc was a prime example of nailing quali every time and then having a car with no race pace. Imo it's generally not a good idea to rank team mates based on quali performance for that reason, you will never know how much their quali time borrows from their race pace.

It’s a good point and well made. Though I would also say that if Piastri is setting his car up with a bias towards qually then it’s not working well either - he’s been out qualified 5-2 by Lando and on those two occasions Lando has been within a tenth.

[Forester1965]

Sandpit Steve said:

If one of their competitors emerges in a clear second place, and they can get two cars regularly on the podium, that’s a distinct possibility.

Although Red Bull will of course tell you they don’t care about the constructors’ championship.

In one way, it'd make sense if Red Bull could engineer a 2nd in the constructors whilst still winning the WDC, because it'd unlock extra wind tunnel time. Yes, you'd lose prize money, but if that isn't a problem then so be it!

Not suggesting that's how RB really think but wouldn't be surprised if it crossed their minds.

[honda_exige]

Forester1965 said:

Sandpit Steve said:

If one of their competitors emerges in a clear second place, and they can get two cars regularly on the podium, that’s a distinct possibility.

Although Red Bull will of course tell you they don’t care about the constructors’ championship.

In one way, it'd make sense if Red Bull could engineer a 2nd in the constructors whilst still winning the WDC, because it'd unlock extra wind tunnel time. Yes, you'd lose prize money, but if that isn't a problem then so be it!

Not suggesting that's how RB really think but wouldn't be surprised if it crossed their minds.

Toto's 2025/6 plan revealed

[vaud]

PlywoodPascal said:

What is the Welsh beef thread please?

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[Hustle_]

Diderot said:

TheDeuce said:

Diderot said:

TheDeuce said:

Hustle_ said:

g4ry13 said:

Diderot said:

Excellent end to the race, and great to see Lando right up there again. Piastri 14 seconds adrift though, again showing that he’s nowhere near as good in the race as he is over one lap.

Started 5th and finished 4th on a track which is very difficult to pass on.

I would not rush to come to that conclusion.

He qualified 2nd

It's very often the case that a strong quali result is due to the drivers car being set up with a bias towards quali, at the detriment of race pace.

He qualified well and then also had a perfectly good race, I think it's fair to say he did well.

He did well, for sure in qually. He is immensely strong over one lap. But as has been the case last season and this, he goes rapidly backwards in the race. 14 seconds is a lifetime in F1. Once again, Lando drove away from him at a rate of knots.

Let us not forget that after his pit stop Piastri was about 1.5 seconds behind Lando. Today is a good example where he needs to improve; he mullered his tyres battling with CLC. I would wager that all this talk about Antonelli will result in the same kinds of delta with Russell should he come into F1.

That's my point really - often drivers who struggle in quali end up with a car better setup for quali to compensate, and then subsequently go backwards in the race. It's very hard without knowing the setup bias of each team mates car to actually identify where they're strong/weak.

But I think most times, if a driver gets a rep for being one lap fast and race slow, it's likely due to a car setup being chosen to get them on average as high up as possible.

Bottas at Merc was a prime example of nailing quali every time and then having a car with no race pace. Imo it's generally not a good idea to rank team mates based on quali performance for that reason, you will never know how much their quali time borrows from their race pace.

It’s a good point and well made. Though I would also say that if Piastri is setting his car up with a bias towards qually then it’s not working well either - he’s been out qualified 5-2 by Lando and on those two occasions Lando has been within a tenth.

The setup thing is speculation.

Tyre management is still such a critical skill to an F1 driver unfortunately, and pretty much all drivers graduating to F1 have to make a massive effort to understand this science. Hamilton had to learn it way back, he used to munch through tyres as much as anybody. Some drivers get very good at it. Some drivers never seem to crack it. I think that there are very good drivers such as Piastri and Russell who are not rookies anymore who need to focus more of their attention here. Verstappen and Norris are two drivers who I can't recall ever struggling with it.

I imagine it could be quite disappointing to come up to F1 and to find that you can so rarely use the full potential of the chassis.

At the end of the day Piastri slotted into a gap of nine hundredths which existed between Verstappen and Norris, he picked up a penalty for impeding for which the race engineer or the team is at least partially responsible for.

[asfault]

Forester1965 said:

Sandpit Steve said:

If one of their competitors emerges in a clear second place, and they can get two cars regularly on the podium, that’s a distinct possibility.

Although Red Bull will of course tell you they don’t care about the constructors’ championship.

In one way, it'd make sense if Red Bull could engineer a 2nd in the constructors whilst still winning the WDC, because it'd unlock extra wind tunnel time. Yes, you'd lose prize money, but if that isn't a problem then so be it!

Not suggesting that's how RB really think but wouldn't be surprised if it crossed their minds.

Very good point. Get perez out and sargeant in.

[Blib]

Diderot said:

Nova Gyna said:

g4ry13 said:

Diderot said:

Excellent end to the race, and great to see Lando right up there again. Piastri 14 seconds adrift though, again showing that he’s nowhere near as good in the race as he is over one lap.

Started 5th and finished 4th on a track which is very difficult to pass on.

I would not rush to come to that conclusion.

Agreed. The lad is still learning his trade (and some tracks), he’s one for the future imo.

It’s a pattern though. I like the lad, but he was hailed as the second coming, but hasn’t lived up to that billing yet. He’s consistently a long way off Lando’s pace in the races.

Once he fully understands tyres he'll fly. There's no short cut to that. Just several seasons hard work.

Lando showed this to great effect yesterday.

[Hustle_]

asfault said:

Forester1965 said:

Sandpit Steve said:

If one of their competitors emerges in a clear second place, and they can get two cars regularly on the podium, that’s a distinct possibility.

Although Red Bull will of course tell you they don’t care about the constructors’ championship.

In one way, it'd make sense if Red Bull could engineer a 2nd in the constructors whilst still winning the WDC, because it'd unlock extra wind tunnel time. Yes, you'd lose prize money, but if that isn't a problem then so be it!

Not suggesting that's how RB really think but wouldn't be surprised if it crossed their minds.

Very good point. Get perez out and sargeant in.

I believe that Red Bull are deliberately tanking for wind tunnel time about as much as I believe that Christian Horner isn't a creep and Adrian Newey hasn't contributed meaningfully to the performance of their car

Verstappen, despite being probably the best driver right now, is cursed with such a fragile ego that any suggestion that Perez is replaced probably has him storming around with a face like a slapped arse and his dad lamping people left, right and centre.

[heebeegeetee]

Hustle_ said:

Verstappen, despite being probably the best driver right now, is cursed with such a fragile ego that any suggestion that Perez is replaced probably has him storming around with a face like a slapped arse and his dad lamping people left, right and centre.

Like it.

[hondajack85]

Blib said:

Diderot said:

Nova Gyna said:

g4ry13 said:

Diderot said:

Excellent end to the race, and great to see Lando right up there again. Piastri 14 seconds adrift though, again showing that he’s nowhere near as good in the race as he is over one lap.

Started 5th and finished 4th on a track which is very difficult to pass on.

I would not rush to come to that conclusion.

Agreed. The lad is still learning his trade (and some tracks), he’s one for the future imo.

It’s a pattern though. I like the lad, but he was hailed as the second coming, but hasn’t lived up to that billing yet. He’s consistently a long way off Lando’s pace in the races.

Once he fully understands tyres he'll fly. There's no short cut to that. Just several seasons hard work.

Lando showed this to great effect yesterday.

All well and good and plausible , when protecting the bismerched rep of your chosen driver lol.
Meanwhile what happened to that Defries chap? Handfull of drives and booted out of f1 forever. He was obviously not popular with anyone. You would think his fellow dutchy max, would have had a word somewhere.
I guess the desire to get F1 giant Danny Ric back drown out any patience.
Having said all this Piastri has had some really good results, but the car is a lot better than some duff old torro rosso was.

[isaldiri]

Blib said:

Once he fully understands tyres he'll fly. There's no short cut to that. Just several seasons hard work.

Lando showed this to great effect yesterday.

I wonder about that tbh that a driver might need time (or even ultimately is able) to fully understand the tyres rather than the team making a decision (or gamble) on how to pace the race to finish it in the quickest possible time. Norris is being credited with managing the tyre very well yesterday by taking it relatively easy at the start of the 2nd stint which resulted in his (awfully impressive) lap 40+ pace but it was also somewhat of a lottery that the tyre would fall away the way it did for Leclerc and Verstappen. Piastri also had to be quick on his outlaps as otherwise he would have been stuck behind Sainz while Norris was more or less certain to come out ahead of Leclerc given he pitted earlier so there's a bit of an unknown what might have he been able to do if he could have been instructed to drive to the same plan as Norris.....

[Bo_apex]

Sandpit Steve said:

DanielSan said:

A small mention also for Verstappen and his team winning their 24 hour sim race this weekend. Not a bad effort in between sessions driving an F1 car

That’s totally mad, but fair play, it’s also funny that he spent his evening driving a sim rig for the hell of it.

James Hunt would want to know why he wasn’t chasing pussy in Bologna last night, but each to himself.

Edited by Sandpit Steve on Sunday 19th May 19:02

yes a busy weekend for MV






but no time for pussy ?

[Stealthracer]

Slightly different race this time, 1% excitement and only 99% borefest.

[Gad-Westy]

Stealthracer said:

Slightly different race this time, 1% excitement and only 99% borefest.

Have to admit, for all the excitement about returning to Imola after missing out last year and a return to 'a proper circuit' and all the history etc... I don't really like it! I imagine it's a great circuit to drive with the elevation changes and the chicanes always look tricky but it does not seem a layout that lends itself well to overtaking at all. I think all but one pass yesterday was done into the tamburello chicane and even then really only when the following car had an enormous speed differential. Piastri never really got close to passing Sainz despite following him within 1s for lap after lap. I think Piastri's pass on Perez into Variante Villeneuve was the only other passing place and that was really only because Perez was offline in the previous chicane defending against CLC and Piastri had a huge tyre advantage at that stage. I think Karun mentioned in the commentary that the 2nd rivazza could do with being a bit slower to get cars closer on the pit 'straight' but it would be nice if there were some other place on track where passing is possible. Without DRS, I'm not sure we'd see any passing at all. Anyway, enough moaning. Monaco to look forward to

[Bas Jaski]

gmaz said:

Are Red Bull going to realise that Perez may cost them the constructors championship?

hat option do they have?

Ric unfortunately is washed up, can't get to grip with these cars, and we already saw what happened when Max had his act together.

Lawson? Still unproven and will he be any better than Perez immediately? Over time, probably. Instantly? Highly doubt it.

Sainz if he signs 2025? As if RB would pay Ferrari's exit clause. to get him 6 months early.

The margins to 2nd/3rd best team are very close now. Alonso got a contract offer. So did Norris. Leclerc tied up. Lewis would never.

What actual solution is there apart from improving the car by half a second?

[TheDeuce]

Bas Jaski said:

gmaz said:

Are Red Bull going to realise that Perez may cost them the constructors championship?

hat option do they have?

Ric unfortunately is washed up, can't get to grip with these cars, and we already saw what happened when Max had his act together.

Lawson? Still unproven and will he be any better than Perez immediately? Over time, probably. Instantly? Highly doubt it.

Sainz if he signs 2025? As if RB would pay Ferrari's exit clause. to get him 6 months early.

The margins to 2nd/3rd best team are very close now. Alonso got a contract offer. So did Norris. Leclerc tied up. Lewis would never.

What actual solution is there apart from improving the car by half a second?

Agree, they have no realistic option, at least not one which is sufficiently likely to get a better result than the pairing they already have,

It could easily happen if Ferrari remain on their current trajectory. McLaren aren't close enough in constructors to threaten RBR, but also their presence taking points at the fast end most races will further diminish what Checo can scrape up some races.

I doubt the possibility of losing WCC, whilst mildly annoying, will be seen as a calamity. For RBR, the big story (other than Horner's sticky finger) is Max winning the WDC. He'll do that easily this year.

Next year however... Without Newey working on updates and Ferrari and Macca on the ascendency, it's starting to look far less like a forgone conclusion that they'll maintain their significant advantage..

[Bas Jaski]

TheDeuce said:

Agree, they have no realistic option, at least not one which is sufficiently likely to get a better result than the pairing they already have,

It could easily happen if Ferrari remain on their current trajectory. McLaren aren't close enough in constructors to threaten RBR, but also their presence taking points at the fast end most races will further diminish what Checo can scrape up some races.

I doubt the possibility of losing WCC, whilst mildly annoying, will be seen as a calamity. For RBR, the big story (other than Horner's sticky finger) is Max winning the WDC. He'll do that easily this year.

Next year however... Without Newey working on updates and Ferrari and Macca on the ascendency, it's starting to look far less like a forgone conclusion that they'll maintain their significant advantage..

I agree that WCC isn't really on RB's cards. The prize money for that isn't significant for them nor is it that essential to their marketing, either.

With the way the last 2 races went I'd hesitate on using the word ''easily'' for the title, though it is very much his to lose, though the next 2 races (excluding Monaco) will be more telling where the fields' pace really is with the recent updates applied. Perhaps RB fell out of their sweet spot the last 2 races or we genuinely have a close season about to happen.

Next year is a huge question mark I agree. Mclaren certainly seems on a fantastic path at the moment.