E Scooters soon to be allowed on UK roads?

E Scooters soon to be allowed on UK roads?

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Discussion

anonymous-user

56 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
4rephill said:
Lord Marylebone said:
Trials and potential legalisation of E-Scooters are apparently going to be ‘fast tracked’ in the UK, to give computers an alternative to being ‘crammed’ onto public transport, and hopefully lessen the risk of spreading Coronavirus.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-e-s...
Pretty sure coronavirus isn't a computer virus! wink
Well spotted... stupid autocorrect!

Now changed to ‘commuters’

anonymous-user

56 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
shouldbworking said:
Fast-tracked makes it sound like something that requires a lot of effort. I reckon I could probably smash out the required legislation in an afternoon with a find and replace of e-bike law.

In the meantime the law has no practical relevance, I've been using mine for over a year, the police didn't care then and I doubt they will now.
That may be true in some areas, but it does depend where you live.

In most towns, the Police will happily slap you with 6 points on your licence and a £300 fine for using one,
or at the very least, take it off you:

The other point you are missing is that the vast majority of people won’t people won’t do something if it is illegal.

Riding one is illegal and therefore that fact alone probably stops 90% of ordinary people who would otherwise use one.

For most people, the threat of 6 points, a £300 fine, and having their several hundred quid scooter taken off them makes it a totally unacceptable risk to ride one. It certainly does for me.

Conclusion: If the law is changed, I think we we see an explosion in the use of these scooters. Everything from kids going to school on them to people commuting.

I personally think anything that allows people to move around urban areas quickly, cheaply and relatively quietly is a good thing.

Shuvi McTupya

24,460 posts

249 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
Tlandcruiser said:
Shuvi McTupya said:
Saw a bunch of rental ones in Lisbon (Portugal) recently that looked even 'fatter' than this..



The Harley Davidson of E Scooters!
I see your Harley and raise you to this;

That one looks more like the ones i saw in Portugal than the one i posted!

I would have no issue having one of those for popping into town to pick up odds and odds or for getting to and from work. No insurance/tax/huge maintenance bills and practically free to use, count me in! Just needs a little carrying capacity to be added to it.

pip t

1,365 posts

169 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
Finally!! And I really hope 'fast tracked' means 'we're re-writing the law as we speak.' Though I'm sure it doesn't sadly.

The fact that e-bikes are legal while e-scooters are illegal is absurd, when essentially the same rules can be applied to both. These are a fantastically usable means of transport for short journeys.

And if they legalise them but then kill them with requirements for insurance, helmets etc that would be equally ridiculous, unless the same is to apply to bikes.

Edited by pip t on Saturday 9th May 13:16

Riley Blue

21,098 posts

228 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
Shuvi McTupya said:
That one looks more like the ones i saw in Portugal than the one i posted!

I would have no issue having one of those for popping into town to pick up odds and odds or for getting to and from work. No insurance/tax/huge maintenance bills and practically free to use, count me in! Just needs a little carrying capacity to be added to it.
Tax free, perhaps but insurance free? I'm not sure of the wisdom in that.

Coincidentally one whizzed past our house yesterday at a speed I estimate as upwards of 20mph. If thousands of them are likely on urban roads I think insurance needs to be seriously considered.

anonymous-user

56 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
Nice opportunity for the government to earn a few extra quid on the side.

bristolracer

5,566 posts

151 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
Riley Blue said:
If thousands of them are likely on urban roads I think insurance needs to be seriously considered.
Simply because every estate rat chav will want one and any honest person buying one will have it stolen.
So theft insurance will be the major need

pip t

1,365 posts

169 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
Riley Blue said:
Tax free, perhaps but insurance free? I'm not sure of the wisdom in that.

Coincidentally one whizzed past our house yesterday at a speed I estimate as upwards of 20mph. If thousands of them are likely on urban roads I think insurance needs to be seriously considered.
The thing about insurance, especially in the current situation, is it's a friction point that will discourage take up. The rational behind legalising them is to ease the pressure on public transport as restrictions are lifted. Adding a friction point like insurance would hinder that.

Added to which, e-bikes, and to be fair, purely pedal powered bikes are well capable of similar speeds, and do not require insurance cover. What makes the scooters different?

bristolracer said:
Simply because every estate rat chav will want one and any honest person buying one will have it stolen.
So theft insurance will be the major need
Not sure theft insurance needs to be a legal requirement though. It's not even a legal requirement for cars! That's just up to the individual's assessment of risk.

anonymous-user

56 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
pip t said:
Riley Blue said:
Tax free, perhaps but insurance free? I'm not sure of the wisdom in that.

Coincidentally one whizzed past our house yesterday at a speed I estimate as upwards of 20mph. If thousands of them are likely on urban roads I think insurance needs to be seriously considered.
The thing about insurance, especially in the current situation, is it's a friction point that will discourage take up. The rational behind legalising them is to ease the pressure on public transport as restrictions are lifted. Adding a friction point like insurance would hinder that.

Added to which, e-bikes, and to be fair, purely pedal powered bikes are well capable of similar speeds, and do not require insurance cover. What makes the scooters different?

bristolracer said:
Simply because every estate rat chav will want one and any honest person buying one will have it stolen.
So theft insurance will be the major need
Not sure theft insurance needs to be a legal requirement though. It's not even a legal requirement for cars! That's just up to the individual's assessment of risk.
I agree.

If we are to encourage as many people as possible to get onto bicycles, e-bikes and e-scooters then we need to make it as easy as possible for them.

Once you start requiring insurance and helmets, people lose interest incredibly quickly.

Look what happened in Australia when they mandated wearing a helmet. There was a significant drop in cycling, and still to this day over 60% of regular cyclists say they wish the law was revoked.

Riley Blue

21,098 posts

228 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
From what I've observed locally, very few commuting cyclists ride at the speed attainable by the electric scooter I saw. However, if approaching 30 mph on a scooter is possible then it's not far off a moped's capabilities.

Are the safety risks any different? Should the licensing / insurance / test requirements be any different?

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not against them at all and one would suit me perfectly for getting around town. I just feel that there ought to be consideration of all the impacts of introducing a new form of motorised transport to the UK's streets.






pip t

1,365 posts

169 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
Riley Blue said:
From what I've observed locally, very few commuting cyclists ride at the speed attainable by the electric scooter I saw. However, if approaching 30 mph on a scooter is possible then it's not far off a moped's capabilities.

Are the safety risks any different? Should the licensing / insurance / test requirements be any different?

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not against them at all and one would suit me perfectly for getting around town. I just feel that there ought to be consideration of all the impacts of introducing a new form of motorised transport to the UK's streets.
On the fundamentals, I would simply argue that in that case, the same needs to apply to e-bikes, which currently at least, it does not.

On the specifics, most of these scooters are limited to 15.5mph, either by design (In that they're not capable of going faster) or by an artificial limiter. I presume that's a legal restriction in other countries where the use of them is legal, since that seems to be the default on all of them that I've seen for sale. Indeed the 15.5mph capable ones tend to be the more expensive models, with plenty available that aren't capable of more than 10mph.

I guess where this limit is applied by a limiter, then it's possible to 'hack' this and allow it to go faster.....

To be honest I think my main arguement is that in use, these provide a similar danger as e-bikes and pedal cycles. Therefore I don't really see why there should be any difference in law between them.

Edited to add further research (Or window shopping hehe ) has lead me to find a few with higher than 15.5mph as an advertised top speed. My basic point still stands though.

Edited by pip t on Saturday 9th May 15:48

CABC

5,628 posts

103 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
normal pedal cycles are involved in more incidents. whether that's because of more cyclists and/or worse behaviour i don't know. more laws aren't the answer, but i'd like to see a little more policing to remind some people of how to behave on pavements. For new devices i think registration/licencing might be considered, esp as they're likely to get faster.

Also, why does "licencing" get highlighted for spelling?

4rephill

5,047 posts

180 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
Lord Marylebone said:
4rephill said:
Lord Marylebone said:
Trials and potential legalisation of E-Scooters are apparently going to be ‘fast tracked’ in the UK, to give computers an alternative to being ‘crammed’ onto public transport, and hopefully lessen the risk of spreading Coronavirus.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-e-s...
Pretty sure coronavirus isn't a computer virus! wink
Well spotted... stupid autocorrect!

Now changed to ‘commuters’
It started my day with a good chuckle! - I had this image of people working from home, but computers still having to commute to work! hehe

h0b0

7,765 posts

198 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
I have a Ninebot max.



Happily gets my fat ass to 18+mph on level ground. It’s not bad going up hills either considering the mass it has to shift. (I’m several stone over the max weight limit)

No issues legally where I live and I’ve even had the police laughing at me. I bought it to help with the one mile walk to the train station for my commute. I do hear you all shouting “walk it fatty” which is all well and good but it gets to 40C and up in the mornings and anyone walking that would break into a sweat.

Not managed the commute yet due to lock down but have taken my kids for bike rides.

pip t

1,365 posts

169 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
h0b0 said:
I have a Ninebot max.



Happily gets my fat ass to 18+mph on level ground. It’s not bad going up hills either considering the mass it has to shift. (I’m several stone over the max weight limit)

No issues legally where I live and I’ve even had the police laughing at me. I bought it to help with the one mile walk to the train station for my commute. I do hear you all shouting “walk it fatty” which is all well and good but it gets to 40C and up in the mornings and anyone walking that would break into a sweat.

Not managed the commute yet due to lock down but have taken my kids for bike rides.
That's one my premature shopping eye had alighted on, along with a few others hehe Good to know it has some punch.

I'm guessing from your comments you're not in the UK - for me here the legal penalties are currently just too much to risk bending the law with one. 6 points on my licence? I'm just not prepared to risk it, however small the chances of actually having that applied are.

PF62

3,775 posts

175 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
Lord Marylebone said:
Conclusion: If the law is changed, I think we we see an explosion in the use of these scooters. Everything from kids going to school on them to people commuting.

I personally think anything that allows people to move around urban areas quickly, cheaply and relatively quietly is a good thing.
Surprised to see someone on a motoring forum looking forward to a vast increase in 10-15mph vehicles on the road. Particularly when the users will be untrained, unlicensed, and uninsured.

over_the_hill

3,194 posts

248 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
Tlandcruiser said:
Shuvi McTupya said:
Saw a bunch of rental ones in Lisbon (Portugal) recently that looked even 'fatter' than this..



The Harley Davidson of E Scooters!
I see your Harley and raise you to this;

What sort of range do you get on those and how long does a recharge take. Also where are the batteries - are they built into the frame.

If this take off prepare for a massive surge in E-scooter thefts.

h0b0

7,765 posts

198 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
pip t said:
h0b0 said:
I have a Ninebot max.



Happily gets my fat ass to 18+mph on level ground. It’s not bad going up hills either considering the mass it has to shift. (I’m several stone over the max weight limit)

No issues legally where I live and I’ve even had the police laughing at me. I bought it to help with the one mile walk to the train station for my commute. I do hear you all shouting “walk it fatty” which is all well and good but it gets to 40C and up in the mornings and anyone walking that would break into a sweat.

Not managed the commute yet due to lock down but have taken my kids for bike rides.
That's one my premature shopping eye had alighted on, along with a few others hehe Good to know it has some punch.

I'm guessing from your comments you're not in the UK - for me here the legal penalties are currently just too much to risk bending the law with one. 6 points on my licence? I'm just not prepared to risk it, however small the chances of actually having that applied are.
I’m in the US and my commute will takes me to the Empire State Building. A friend has one similar which takes him from midtown to Wall Street. He uses the bike paths on the West Side highway for most of it.

bristolracer

5,566 posts

151 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
pip t said:


bristolracer said:
Simply because every estate rat chav will want one and any honest person buying one will have it stolen.
So theft insurance will be the major need
Not sure theft insurance needs to be a legal requirement though. It's not even a legal requirement for cars! That's just up to the individual's assessment of risk.
I'm not saying it will be a legal requirement, but I'm guessing these things wont be cheap and if they are unregistered the owners will have the same problem with theft that bike owners do now.
Chavs are going to love them far more than they do a stolen mountain bike.

anonymous-user

56 months

Saturday 9th May 2020
quotequote all
PF62 said:
Lord Marylebone said:
Conclusion: If the law is changed, I think we we see an explosion in the use of these scooters. Everything from kids going to school on them to people commuting.

I personally think anything that allows people to move around urban areas quickly, cheaply and relatively quietly is a good thing.
Surprised to see someone on a motoring forum looking forward to a vast increase in 10-15mph vehicles on the road. Particularly when the users will be untrained, unlicensed, and uninsured.
Because it's not about what I want. It's about people being able to move around urban areas easily.
Driving in cities and even many town centres will be come increasingly pointless and legislated against anyway.

If I'm being honest, I only tend to drive in city centres for one of the following reasons:

a) I'm cruising about the streets in a Porsche/Lambo/other silly car, on an evening or weekend, and essentially just having fun at whatever speed the traffic is crawling at, before parking outside a bar/restaurant for the evening and then going home.

b) I'm in that particular city for work, visiting friends, or browsing the shops and attractions, and the public transport links insufficient so I have to use a car to get there.


I live outside the city but with good train links, so I tend to use trains/tubes/trams whenever I can for work.

If I'm actually doing any driving for fun, or going a long distance, it will be in out of town areas where the speed limit is 40-70mph and there won't be anyone on a 15mph scooter and very few cyclists, so they won't bother me.

Things change. I'm happy to roll with the changes, whatever they may be.

I absolutely love cars, but I'm fully aware that we all need to adapt to change, and at a quicker pace than has probably ever been seen in 50 years or so, and if that means my urban driving being affected or 'slowed down' by more cyclists and scooters then so be it.

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 9th May 18:37