Discussion
the tribester said:
Double Fault said:
Feels like only 58 were needed....can't the police do anything right??
No, those extra 2 were required to carry the crystal balls people seem to think they must have.Victory_RS said:
60 officers! To a a ring supplying false details for speed tickets, yet they have no police for various crimes and D&C is under performance management last heard due to failing inspection. Reminds of me a certain labour MP and her brother, who got caught using our Russian flat mate scam!
Blimey goes to show there are plenty of police resources if it fits their agenda and fine collection activities for their partnerships and central gov.
Where are they going to lock up these dangerous farmers! Rapist and Burglars are being let off custodial sentences as the prison system is now at capacity!
So having seen other people's replies. Do you still feel this raid was a waste of resources?Blimey goes to show there are plenty of police resources if it fits their agenda and fine collection activities for their partnerships and central gov.
Where are they going to lock up these dangerous farmers! Rapist and Burglars are being let off custodial sentences as the prison system is now at capacity!
Edited by Drumroll on Friday 13th October 10:31
VSKeith said:
More details on how it works here:
https://the-siu.org.uk/nip-farming-scam-exposed
Nightmare for the victims.
Absolutely horrendous. https://the-siu.org.uk/nip-farming-scam-exposed
Nightmare for the victims.
As I understand it, the likes of Twitter/X/Facebook or whatnot have plans to ask for a photo of your driving licence as proof of ID. Errr, no. Just no.
Happens all the time where I live. Never any police visible in the town or when you need them, but a call goes out to arrest a traveller in his pickup truck at the local supermarket petrol station and 6 police vehicles descend from all directions at top speed on blues and sirens to detain the poor bugger. He looked more than a tad confused by it all, but given the speed of it nobody was injured and no tea breaks were lost, so all's well in the world.
Once you have paid for your NIP scapegoat, how does one get away with naming them: a completely unrelated person, possibly living many miles away.
Would you have to give a reason for them to be driving your car, and would they then have to prove that their insurance covers them for driving a car not owned by them?
Would you have to give a reason for them to be driving your car, and would they then have to prove that their insurance covers them for driving a car not owned by them?
GasEngineer said:
Once you have paid for your NIP scapegoat, how does one get away with naming them: a completely unrelated person, possibly living many miles away.
Would you have to give a reason for them to be driving your car, and would they then have to prove that their insurance covers them for driving a car not owned by them?
The government just want the money that aren't interested in anything else. Setting up some type of oversight would cost money eating into the profit which negates the whole point of speeding fines. Would you have to give a reason for them to be driving your car, and would they then have to prove that their insurance covers them for driving a car not owned by them?
I must admit I was offered this service when I collected my 3 point certificate earlier this year (first time in 20 years!) But I'm pretty sure if you get caught it's prison and I'm way too good looking for that. I do know a couple of people that have done it multiple times though.
One thing I don't quite understand.
Original NIP sent.
Response goes from wherever naming the innocent victim.
Doesn't another NIP then go yo the victim at which point surely you'd start your defence, not me, not my car, not there on that day.
How can it get to the point where missed court hearings and banned?
Also there clearly failings in the back office review process eg man accused, photo clearly of a woman, though suppose these days there's an extra complication there where nobody wants to tread.
Original NIP sent.
Response goes from wherever naming the innocent victim.
Doesn't another NIP then go yo the victim at which point surely you'd start your defence, not me, not my car, not there on that day.
How can it get to the point where missed court hearings and banned?
Also there clearly failings in the back office review process eg man accused, photo clearly of a woman, though suppose these days there's an extra complication there where nobody wants to tread.
FiF said:
One thing I don't quite understand.
Original NIP sent.
Response goes from wherever naming the innocent victim.
Doesn't another NIP then go yo the victim at which point surely you'd start your defence, not me, not my car, not there on that day.
How can it get to the point where missed court hearings and banned?
Also there clearly failings in the back office review process eg man accused, photo clearly of a woman, though suppose these days there's an extra complication there where nobody wants to tread.
Nip goes to a real person (whose details have been stolen) but wrong address. Original NIP sent.
Response goes from wherever naming the innocent victim.
Doesn't another NIP then go yo the victim at which point surely you'd start your defence, not me, not my car, not there on that day.
How can it get to the point where missed court hearings and banned?
Also there clearly failings in the back office review process eg man accused, photo clearly of a woman, though suppose these days there's an extra complication there where nobody wants to tread.
sugerbear said:
Nip goes to a real person (whose details have been stolen) but wrong address.
Presumably this could all be stopped by only ever sending the second NIP to the address associated with the licence number on the DVLA database rather than the address on the first S.172 notice? Is that too obvious? ETA; scrap that, I'm guessing the S.172 doesn't ask for a licence number.
Fore Left said:
sugerbear said:
Nip goes to a real person (whose details have been stolen) but wrong address.
Presumably this could all be stopped by only ever sending the second NIP to the address associated with the licence number on the DVLA database rather than t he address on the first S.172 notice? Is that too obvious? ETA; scrap that, I'm guessing the S.172 doesn't ask for a licence number.
Still there is something odd.
Response goes back with Name and False address.
2nd NIP goes to false address, unanswered.
Goes to court, docs from there presumably also unanswered.
How does it then get assigned to a real person, at a completely different address, and their licence suspended, without anyone at Fixed Penalty Back Office, the court service or the admittedly utterly useless DVLA going, hang on a second, this needs to be checked out properly. Or is it computer says so must be. Perhaps the connection is made by the bailiffs, who knows?
FRO. do your jobs properly you lazy incompetent sods.
My understanding is that there's a criminal network that pay actual real people to take the points on a real license this is the only way it could really work properly depending how much effort they put into chasing people. The easiest thing they would do is go back to the original person and do them for supporting incorrect details. This would require no investigation and a nice easy route for the Government.
I'm guessing that they change the address on the victim's licence with DVLA, so no mail goes to them.
Process something like this:
- Steal ID with driving number
- Change address with DVLA online to valid UK address where mail can be received
- Get £ and signed NIP form from customer saying not driving
- Add victim's details and return to DVLA
- When NIP in victim's name arrives at new address, accept, sign and return
- Take points, even pay fine (?)
Process something like this:
- Steal ID with driving number
- Change address with DVLA online to valid UK address where mail can be received
- Get £ and signed NIP form from customer saying not driving
- Add victim's details and return to DVLA
- When NIP in victim's name arrives at new address, accept, sign and return
- Take points, even pay fine (?)
Voldemort said:
Victory_RS said:
... as the prison system is now at capacity!
Ironically, this suggests that the police are doing a very good job.It says a lot of things but not that.
A country with one prison cell would fill up fairly quickly
Anyone can make stats to boost their cause, however there is the bigger picture
joropug said:
On Instagram, there are often adverts hidden as stories for things like this, another example were jab passports.
A few weeks ago I spent an hour or so on Facebook Marketplace looking for what was available related to motoring. Basically everything:- Guaranteed theory test pass (listed as theory test help etc). Also practical tests. £300+
- "Same Day CBT", £70-150. Apparently these used to be fake certificates but they have tightened down and the police can check the issuance at the at the roadside now, so either people will get caught out if checked or they are using paper issued to a real training centre.
- "Green mid plugs", all driving history accepted, basically you rent an entry on a trader's policy, £100/month or so. From the looks of I'm sure this is a HUGE thing done regularly and the ads on Facebook are just the fringes.
- "Guaranteed cheaper car insurance". Some claim to use a screen share to run the quote so you can see it's genuine, and say they have a broker's discount. None of them mention their business name or FCA details so it's obviously not legitimate. I think either the screen share would be broken or it's faked. A colleague said they probably buy a policy with made-up circumstances to get it on MID and then supply a doctored certificate to the "customer". You only find out later that it's worthless. The other possibility is that they use a trader's policy to get it on MID and for you to pay, then take it off.
- "Ghost MOTs". Like the olden days, MOT but no test. I'd have thought the DVSA could easily crack down on this by doing test purchases, perhaps they do?
I couldn't find dodgy medicals, but I did read about a mobile HGV doctor company which was prosecuted for doing very shoddy examinations.
Edited by Gareth79 on Tuesday 17th October 01:17
Edited by Gareth79 on Tuesday 17th October 01:19
Edited by Gareth79 on Tuesday 17th October 01:20
VSKeith said:
I'm guessing that they change the address on the victim's licence with DVLA, so no mail goes to them.
Process something like this:
- Steal ID with driving number
- Change address with DVLA online to valid UK address where mail can be received
- Get £ and signed NIP form from customer saying not driving
- Add victim's details and return to DVLA
- When NIP in victim's name arrives at new address, accept, sign and return
- Take points, even pay fine (?)
Surely though that’s not a sustainable approach. The victims will ultimately realise and start making a fuss, this will lead straight back to the registered keepers of the cars in which the original offences were committed to explain why they named the victims as the drivers, how they came to be driving their cars, whether the people named were insured etc etc etc. It’d all unravel fairly quickly. I can only see it working essentially as a points brokering service with willing participants being paid to take the points. Process something like this:
- Steal ID with driving number
- Change address with DVLA online to valid UK address where mail can be received
- Get £ and signed NIP form from customer saying not driving
- Add victim's details and return to DVLA
- When NIP in victim's name arrives at new address, accept, sign and return
- Take points, even pay fine (?)
djohnson said:
Surely though that’s not a sustainable approach. The victims will ultimately realise and start making a fuss, this will lead straight back to the registered keepers of the cars in which the original offences were committed to explain why they named the victims as the drivers, how they came to be driving their cars, whether the people named were insured etc etc etc. It’d all unravel fairly quickly. I can only see it working essentially as a points brokering service with willing participants being paid to take the points.
Yep, you'd have thought that would be the best way and I'm sure that's one way they do it, but there are people finding that they are banned with no idea how. I'd imagine that once the criminals take the money they don't care if it triggers a future investigation focusing on the speeder.
This has just been on Radio 4.
Apparently it works because the court accepts whatever details the crim puts on the NIP form.
They put a correct name and Licence number but a false address and the Court does no checking.
The new NIP goes to the false address, is not responded to, so the victim is found guilty in absentia and the court again writes to the false address given by the crims, notifying them of their conviction and points.
The victim doesn't get notified unless/until they receive a ban - at this point the court writes to DVLA, and DVLA then write to the victim using the real address on their licence record - which is the first they know of it.
The the victim has an admin nightmare to try and get things corrected - one absolute wonk at the DVLA told one victim the only way to sort it out was by changing her name!
Apparently it works because the court accepts whatever details the crim puts on the NIP form.
They put a correct name and Licence number but a false address and the Court does no checking.
The new NIP goes to the false address, is not responded to, so the victim is found guilty in absentia and the court again writes to the false address given by the crims, notifying them of their conviction and points.
The victim doesn't get notified unless/until they receive a ban - at this point the court writes to DVLA, and DVLA then write to the victim using the real address on their licence record - which is the first they know of it.
The the victim has an admin nightmare to try and get things corrected - one absolute wonk at the DVLA told one victim the only way to sort it out was by changing her name!
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