Driving test question - complaint?
Discussion
A family member has just failed their driving test. There was a singular “major” which was an allegation of being too hesitant to overtake a cyclist.
The road is an NSL. The first “opportunity” they “should” have taken was here:
They were in the left carriageway. Cyclist was riding at more than 10mph. Overtaking would therefor have been illegal (not to mention the unsighted bend).
Second was 100 yards further, similar layout. Third was here:
Cyclist in left lane as before. Oncoming traffic at 60mph.
Examiner *directed* family member to overtake within their lane, saying “there’s plenty of room,” meaning they were *very* close to the cyclist (as can be seen, no room to leave a decent gap). Fail was for this only.
This strikes me as outrageous. I realise there’s no grounds for appeal here, but the protection of cyclists is fundamental to the Highway Code these days. Issuing fails for not breaking the law (crossing solid white line) or for not endangering the cyclist seems a pretty poor show IMHO.
Any thoughts?
The road is an NSL. The first “opportunity” they “should” have taken was here:
They were in the left carriageway. Cyclist was riding at more than 10mph. Overtaking would therefor have been illegal (not to mention the unsighted bend).
Second was 100 yards further, similar layout. Third was here:
Cyclist in left lane as before. Oncoming traffic at 60mph.
Examiner *directed* family member to overtake within their lane, saying “there’s plenty of room,” meaning they were *very* close to the cyclist (as can be seen, no room to leave a decent gap). Fail was for this only.
This strikes me as outrageous. I realise there’s no grounds for appeal here, but the protection of cyclists is fundamental to the Highway Code these days. Issuing fails for not breaking the law (crossing solid white line) or for not endangering the cyclist seems a pretty poor show IMHO.
Any thoughts?
Fermit said:
In the first two instances, 100% should not be overtaking. As for the third, IF the was a significant gap with opposite direction traffic, they should (IMO) have used the gears and strong acceleration to pass the bike. However, if there weren't any significant gaps they'd be falling foul of the Highway Codes advice on the matter As a guide: leave at least 1.5 metres when overtaking cyclists at speeds of up to 30mph
No gaps. Examiner directed them to overtake *within* the lane *without* crossing the white line, apparently saying “go on, there’s plenty of room.”In answer to other points:
- I know someone who’s just failed may have a dim view, but let’s just assume that’s not the issue here
- No dash cam footage, no, and in any case it is not admissible in any form.
- As for complaint, it is more whether an informal note to the test centre is in order. There’s obviously no legal route here, more that obviously dangerous and/or illegal directions and expectations are simply not on.
This is their second failure. On the first, the examiner was so fat he was out of breath walking to the car 50 metres from the test centre, could barely get the seatbelt on, and was unable to turn his head without moving his whole upper body (this was witnessed by family member accompanying them). Failed first test for an apparent failure to check a mirror, which is just one of those things however frustrating. Failing once is must a rite of passage sometimes, but failing a second time for something apparently so controversial is obviously pretty sore. Otherwise just 3 minors.
Should the learner here have simply refused to pass as directed, saying “I’m sorry, I can’t leave a safe gap if I do as you ask”? Pretty tough for a young person to directly challenge an examiner like that.
Simpo Two said:
Caddyshack said:
It may be that the pupil was just sitting behind the bike and not actively looking for an overtake, not looking for the opportunity or positioning.
That's happened increasingly since 30mph limits became the norm and the world became just a crocodile of traffic. People just go into numpty mode and stare at the back of whatever's in front of them. Indeed there's a high chance now that if you spot a gap and overtake, the person you just overtook will flash you 
It's as if people don't know how to drive any more, they only know how to queue.The other complication in this case, I feel, is that the test was taken in a family car, an old diesel Berlingo, which very definitely doesn't have the get-up-and-go of modern instructors' cars (in my day my instructor had a 1.1 Mk 2 Fiesta - no chance of "getting your foot down" to make an overtake there!). Being sure is part of being safe in my book.
The test centre in question has, it turns out, a poor reputation and a (relatively speaking) low pass rate. May be time to pick a different test centre for the next attempt!
I may suggest, after some mature reflection, a polite note to the Chief Examiner.
Sebring440 said:
skwdenyer said:
the examiner was so fat he was out of breath walking to the car 50 metres from the test centre, could barely get the seatbelt on, and was unable to turn his head without moving his whole upper body (this was witnessed by family member accompanying them).
You really have got some sort of personality problem to be bringing this up.Caddyshack said:
skwdenyer said:
Simpo Two said:
Caddyshack said:
It may be that the pupil was just sitting behind the bike and not actively looking for an overtake, not looking for the opportunity or positioning.
That's happened increasingly since 30mph limits became the norm and the world became just a crocodile of traffic. People just go into numpty mode and stare at the back of whatever's in front of them. Indeed there's a high chance now that if you spot a gap and overtake, the person you just overtook will flash you It's as if people don't know how to drive any more, they only know how to queue.The other complication in this case, I feel, is that the test was taken in a family car, an old diesel Berlingo, which very definitely doesn't have the get-up-and-go of modern instructors' cars (in my day my instructor had a 1.1 Mk 2 Fiesta - no chance of "getting your foot down" to make an overtake there!). Being sure is part of being safe in my book.
The test centre in question has, it turns out, a poor reputation and a (relatively speaking) low pass rate. May be time to pick a different test centre for the next attempt!
I may suggest, after some mature reflection, a polite note to the Chief Examiner.
Any car can overtake a 10mph bike, you would only need 20mph to whip past.
Changing test centres at this stage is about their confidence in the system, not about finding an "easier" one (all the local centres have pretty similar pass/fail stats per the DVSA).
Having a parent sit in on the next test might be a good call - again, for the sense of potential fairness more than anything else. Going into any test feeling like the system is stacked against you (rightly or wrongly) is not a path to success.
Cmakka23 said:
Instructor here. You can complain about the conduct of the test, this would never change the result. The best that can happen is you could possibly get a free re-test if it was proven the test wasn't conducted correctly.
As said above, what we get told after a fail is rarely what happened.
Without being there yourself and seeing it there is little point at all in complaining. It will always fall in the Examiners favour.
My hinest advice would be to chalk it up to experience and get another one booked.
Thanks. Do you have any view on the question of whether the learner should provide some commentary ("I'm not overtaking because...") and/or responding to the examiner urging them to overtake ("I can't do that without leaving the cyclist too little space and/or impinging on oncoming traffic")?As said above, what we get told after a fail is rarely what happened.
Without being there yourself and seeing it there is little point at all in complaining. It will always fall in the Examiners favour.
My hinest advice would be to chalk it up to experience and get another one booked.
After the first test (this was the second) in which the learner claimed (I emphasise that word) that when they were looking left at the failure roundabout all they saw the entire time was the examiner's head, it was discussed that they might (if it happened like that on a subsequent test) wish to say something like "I'm checking my left mirror" - but I don't know whether that's more likely to wind up the examiner?
I'm not personally very much help on the coping with a driving test failure front, as I passed first time - and overall I'd say this learner is far more competent on the road than I was at the same age
Robertb said:
Hungrymc said:
119 said:
If the driver was keeping up, the car speedo would be a good indication.
In these days of e-bikes and cyclists who are pushing on a little for exercise, I'm finding it quite rare to find a bike on a rural road traveling slower than 10mph. Same for construction and farm vehicles etc, a lot are doing high teens and therefore are not a legal overtake if crossing a white line.
In this case, I'm astonished a driving tester would insist on a candidate not only illegally crossing double white lines but also breaking the guidance of allowing 1.5m clearance. Imagine if there had been a collision.
So we're all clear, none of this is about me supporting the learner in feeling nonspecifically aggrieved about a fail. Fails happen. Humans (including examiners) aren't infallible. Life sucks sometimes. But I am specifically concerned about this incident because it appears, on the face of it, to be egregious and dangerous.
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