Cities: Skylines 2
Discussion
As the original Cities: Skylines thread has recently had a small resurgence in this dying subsection of the Pistoneheads forums, I thought I'd start a thread for Cities Skylines 2 - set for release on October 24th, 2023.
For those who don't know, Cities: Skylines 2 is an upcoming city-building game that expands upon many of the simulation factors of its predecessor such as simulated city and population sizes, and improved traffic AI and management schemes.
For those sceptible about whether this is the right purchase for you, it will be available at launch on Xbox Gamepass - although the PC release will of course be the preferred way to play.
The developer's feature highlights can be found here:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6kotTknxXVTqb6...
Hopefully, this thread can be where PH city builder wannabes can talk about the game, share their thoughts, possible concerns, and then when the game releases, share photos of your builds!
For those who don't know, Cities: Skylines 2 is an upcoming city-building game that expands upon many of the simulation factors of its predecessor such as simulated city and population sizes, and improved traffic AI and management schemes.
For those sceptible about whether this is the right purchase for you, it will be available at launch on Xbox Gamepass - although the PC release will of course be the preferred way to play.
The developer's feature highlights can be found here:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6kotTknxXVTqb6...
Hopefully, this thread can be where PH city builder wannabes can talk about the game, share their thoughts, possible concerns, and then when the game releases, share photos of your builds!
Some of the YouTube creators have had early access of a Beta build and released their first videos of the game on Friday 8th - limited to 30 minutes of play and not being allowed to expand beyond Milestone 4. Because of the limitations most of the creator's builds have ended up looking similar but I've seen enough that I love to get me absolutely pumped to play this.
-The road creation tools look incredible - I would typically play the original game without mods (as I feel its cheating) so getting some of these new building options is going to be revolutionary for me.
-The graphics and general art style is beautiful. I love the more realistic look and wasn't keen on the cartoony art style of the original game.
-The scale is much improved. Buildings have more realistic sizes now - both with the increase to 6 tile sizes for zoned buildings and with the much larger ploppable buildings. The modular aspect is also very cool, being able to expand a service. I love the idea of having to plan around leaving space to expand existing infrastructure.
-The general depth that the city management has - much more than the first game. But from what I understand, if you don't like that, you can pretty much leave it alone.
-Choosing an area for your landfill/industry to be in and making it as small or big as you like.
-The way power and water now work, running underground. Being able to export and import electricity and water etc.
Having said that, there are some things I dislike.
-Plain grassy areas look terrible - the texture for this is very ugly and worse than the original game.
-There are no assets! This kills the detailing aspect for me and seems strange that they have gone this way.
-Trees grow - looks like a pain in the arse when trying to plop them down.
-The big modular service buildings are cool, but being so big and detailed from the get-go limits the creativity we had before, for example, my graveyard was not just the building but I'd make an entire area with assets to have my own graveyard. Now it's just one big building with everything done for you.
-Industries seem to have taken a massive step back.
Overall, despite there being a number of negatives I'm pumped.
Ultimately we're only seeing Beta footage so a lot of this may be fixed/changed for the released version.
Plus, the original game has had 8 years of updates and expansion packs - vanilla vs. vanilla, This is a massive step up over the first game and a great base for them to build on over the next 8 years.
-The road creation tools look incredible - I would typically play the original game without mods (as I feel its cheating) so getting some of these new building options is going to be revolutionary for me.
-The graphics and general art style is beautiful. I love the more realistic look and wasn't keen on the cartoony art style of the original game.
-The scale is much improved. Buildings have more realistic sizes now - both with the increase to 6 tile sizes for zoned buildings and with the much larger ploppable buildings. The modular aspect is also very cool, being able to expand a service. I love the idea of having to plan around leaving space to expand existing infrastructure.
-The general depth that the city management has - much more than the first game. But from what I understand, if you don't like that, you can pretty much leave it alone.
-Choosing an area for your landfill/industry to be in and making it as small or big as you like.
-The way power and water now work, running underground. Being able to export and import electricity and water etc.
Having said that, there are some things I dislike.
-Plain grassy areas look terrible - the texture for this is very ugly and worse than the original game.
-There are no assets! This kills the detailing aspect for me and seems strange that they have gone this way.
-Trees grow - looks like a pain in the arse when trying to plop them down.
-The big modular service buildings are cool, but being so big and detailed from the get-go limits the creativity we had before, for example, my graveyard was not just the building but I'd make an entire area with assets to have my own graveyard. Now it's just one big building with everything done for you.
-Industries seem to have taken a massive step back.
Overall, despite there being a number of negatives I'm pumped.
Ultimately we're only seeing Beta footage so a lot of this may be fixed/changed for the released version.
Plus, the original game has had 8 years of updates and expansion packs - vanilla vs. vanilla, This is a massive step up over the first game and a great base for them to build on over the next 8 years.
phil-sti said:
I wonder if Unitys new pay per install money grab will lead to a short delay for this, especially as its free on Gamepass and i'm assuming Xbox have signed a set fee for it.
I think the Unity news has come out way too close to the launch for it to cause a delay - I'd imagine that'd only hurt CS2 more in the long run (theoretically less time for fresh installs before the new charges come into effect).I can see Unity backtracking on this, or at least having further stipulations like excluding GamePass/Charity Bundle installs from the approved list.
Maybe only full-priced purchases are hit with the charge. Sale, pass and bundle sales don't contribute etc.
The second round of YouTube creator videos were released yesterday.
Another 30 minutes of footage from each creator allowing them to build up to Milestone 8.
It’s looking to be a very different game to the original; and given the lack of detailing options (due to no props), and big modular buildings in the sequel, I don’t feel that each creators cities feel all that different.
BUT, the modular buildings look amazing and the size and scale of them is excellent. Contour lines have thankfully been added for terraforming which was absent in the last YouTube creator video.
Additionally, Colossal Order announced today that the console version has been delayed until 2024.
I commend them for delaying an unfinished product; as it seems to be the norm to release a broken game and incrementally fix it with updates, however I think it’s a little dirty to delay it so close to release. Surely, they knew earlier?
Thankfully, I’m a PC player. Only a few weeks to go!
Another 30 minutes of footage from each creator allowing them to build up to Milestone 8.
It’s looking to be a very different game to the original; and given the lack of detailing options (due to no props), and big modular buildings in the sequel, I don’t feel that each creators cities feel all that different.
BUT, the modular buildings look amazing and the size and scale of them is excellent. Contour lines have thankfully been added for terraforming which was absent in the last YouTube creator video.
Additionally, Colossal Order announced today that the console version has been delayed until 2024.
I commend them for delaying an unfinished product; as it seems to be the norm to release a broken game and incrementally fix it with updates, however I think it’s a little dirty to delay it so close to release. Surely, they knew earlier?
Thankfully, I’m a PC player. Only a few weeks to go!
I have to admit, while I am still very excited, I am also a little more cautious now the closer to release we are with more (negative) info dropping each day.
It was announced today that the Steam Workshop wouldn't be supported and that the editor and mods wouldn't be available from launch.
The recent increase in system specification is also frustrating as I bought a new rig specifically for this game - opting for a 4070ti based on the original game requirements. I'd have gone for a 4090 if I'd known the current requirements.
A week to go though!
Like with the first game, I am sure it will expand and improve a lot over time - it's not a "play it for a week and done" kind of game. It's something I'll put hundreds - if not thousands - of hours into.
It was announced today that the Steam Workshop wouldn't be supported and that the editor and mods wouldn't be available from launch.
The recent increase in system specification is also frustrating as I bought a new rig specifically for this game - opting for a 4070ti based on the original game requirements. I'd have gone for a 4090 if I'd known the current requirements.
A week to go though!
Like with the first game, I am sure it will expand and improve a lot over time - it's not a "play it for a week and done" kind of game. It's something I'll put hundreds - if not thousands - of hours into.
captain_cynic said:
budgie smuggler said:
Bloody hell a 4090?! Is there an up to date spec list you've seen?
I've got a gaming laptop with an RTX 2060 and it never even occurred to me that wouldn't be enough for playing a city sim.
I've a Ryzen 5/3050 laptop and I'm worried as Collosal Order have basically said "we expect to have performance issues at launch".I've got a gaming laptop with an RTX 2060 and it never even occurred to me that wouldn't be enough for playing a city sim.
And for most of November, I'm going to be away from home.
EDIT: these are the min specs from Steam.
Processor: Intel® Core™ i7-6700K | AMD® Ryzen™ 5 2600X
Memory: 8 GB RAM
Graphics: Nvidia® GeForce™ GTX 970 (4 GB) | AMD equivalent
I think RAM and GPU will be more important than CPU. A 2060 should be OK for 1080p.
Edited by captain_cynic on Tuesday 17th October 09:32
I'm sure I'll be fine with my 4070ti, but longer-term with a few DLC packs and mods etc I'm a little concerned I'll need more oomph.
I'm getting good performance so far.
I'm running a 4070ti with 64gb of DDR4 and a 13th gen i713900k.
I have all settings on high, with v-sync, dynamic res., depth of field and motion blur all turned off and I'm consistently achieving 60fps+ although am only running on 1080p.
It's so poorly optimised though - a friend on the same settings with almost identical PC is getting half that!
It feels like a totally different game to the first one.
I feel like a fish out of water!
I'm running a 4070ti with 64gb of DDR4 and a 13th gen i713900k.
I have all settings on high, with v-sync, dynamic res., depth of field and motion blur all turned off and I'm consistently achieving 60fps+ although am only running on 1080p.
It's so poorly optimised though - a friend on the same settings with almost identical PC is getting half that!
It feels like a totally different game to the first one.
I feel like a fish out of water!
captain_cynic said:
The 64 million squid question is... Would you go back to C:S1?
It’s a very difficult question to answer. I only have 5.5 hours playtime so far vs. 1,000 on CS:1 – plus CS:1 has had 8 years of development, support, and mods, so its not fair to directly compare them so soon, but so far, my thoughts are:I do “miss” how CS:1 plays – but that’s more because I’ve not learnt the game and mechanics but even something as basic as making a grid from roads feels new. Because the measurements are different, the way amount the roads increase in size and the fact that zoning is now 6 cells deep instead of 4 means you need to learn the right lengths/widths all over again. My standard 22x11 cell grids don’t apply anymore!
The much more flexible road creation suite is fantastic, though it does also make creating roads harder in some ways – you have to be more precise with where you are snapping onto existing geometry.
Even the bulldozer has changed and become fiddlier and more complex.
Everything feels different, new, and deeper – and its all very confusing BUT it’s just one of those things where you know you’ll love it and you know its better, you just need to get used to it.
I am not a massive fan of the maps though – they’re very hilly, and modifying the terrain is more important now than ever before. I was never great on hilly terrain so that is a learning curve.
The actual simulation runs so much slower, too. Max speed feels slower than 1x speed on the first game.
This has pros and cons. It does encourage a more relaxed and casual playstyle and means that if you have issues that need fixing, you don’t have to jump on them right away, you can wait a while before they cause a serious affect but equally, its not a game where you can rush expansion and go from 0 to 10,000 citizens in 30 minutes real-time.
I’d watched all the content creator stuff over the last few weeks so thought I knew what to expect and thought I would know how it feels and plays – but I was so wrong. It’s also worth noting they all have 150-200 hours playtime, so you don’t notice how different it is because they’ve already learnt how to play.
If someone said to me that it was made by a different developer and called “City Builder 2023” with no affiliation to CS:1, I’d believe them.
It’s not CS:1 with better graphics and new mechanics.
If it gets the same support, DLC and mod support, this will undoubtedly surpass the first game… We just need to all get used to playing it - so no, I wouldn't go back - although my rose tinted glasses that know what to do makes me miss CS:1 a little!
Mastodon2 said:
Steam reviews and other reviews sources I've seen are painting the picture of a disaster launch.
Part of the problem (and I've seen a lot in the Cities groups I'm part of) is despite the KNOWN performance issues and the devs recommending certain specs (1080p res being crucial), people have still tried to run at max settings, and moaned that they're getting single digit frame rate. I appreciate it shouldn't have been released in such a poor state, but even if you have a 4090 and can play everything else at max settings 4K, how can you possibly get annoyed and post online how you're getting 8fps when weeks ago we were given a heads up it was poorly optimised.A friend is running a 1070 and he's getting 30fps at medium settings 1080p. That's an 8-year-old card.
Again, whilst it should not have been released in that state, I think people are being a little entitled/precious and of the belief that if they can't play at absolutely max settings then the game is unplayable.
A patch came out today - I'm now getting 120fps @ 1080p or 80fps @1440p - all settings on high. Still have V-Sync off as well as things like depth of field etc. It is a little buggy albeit no more than a lot of releases.
The fact a 500kb patch with such a massive effect on performance came just 3 days after release does make me wonder how they couldn't squeeze it in on/before release?
Remember 20 years ago playing PS2 games that would sometimes dip to FPS in the teens when a lot happened on screen - with patches being non-existent - nobody really gave a crap then, it was just how things were...
Griffith4ever said:
TREMAiNE said:
stuff about resolution
What you say is true, but... I want to play at the resolution of my monitor, and 1080p just isn't going to work - ultrawide monitor 3440 x 1440.I'll wait a little. I've a 3070 and a last year gen i5 so fairly sure it'll be ok, but no rush.
Unlike the last game, this is not overly CPU-intensive.
Also, the performance penalty for increased population actually decreases as the pop. goes up.
For me, the drop in FPS from 0 to 10k citizens is bigger than the drop from 10k to 50k.
1440p and 4k now viable options to play since the first patch, too.
The game has the foundations to be truly incredible.
Unfortunately it's just not ready yet. Bugs ans certain simulation systems not working correctly yet aren't actually my main gripe but the lack of content is what's put me off playing.
While not a fair comparison, years and years of DLC made CS:1 so deep with so much to do. The sequel is so bare by comparison. Also, whilst the scale of CS:2 is amazing, the downside is that it makes making smaller towns look a bit silly - even an elementary school is massive. So the scale, one of the games biggest strengths, ends up being one of its biggest weaknesses too.
Also, zoning breaks so easily and it drives me OCD mad.
It's 1 million times worse than the first game. The road tools are amazing- near perfect - but that flexibility is ruined when I'm placing the same road 10 times until the zoning doesn't break (and yes, I do toggle the relevant snap tools etc).
Lastly, no detailing is horrendous. Every city looks the same.
Tree growth is a pain.
With mods, these issues are all resolved which is good but too much is still wrong.
I went back to CS:1 recently - but now I'm stuck - I miss some of the features of CS:2 when I play CS:1 but I miss all of the content of CS:1 when I play 2.
Unfortunately it's just not ready yet. Bugs ans certain simulation systems not working correctly yet aren't actually my main gripe but the lack of content is what's put me off playing.
While not a fair comparison, years and years of DLC made CS:1 so deep with so much to do. The sequel is so bare by comparison. Also, whilst the scale of CS:2 is amazing, the downside is that it makes making smaller towns look a bit silly - even an elementary school is massive. So the scale, one of the games biggest strengths, ends up being one of its biggest weaknesses too.
Also, zoning breaks so easily and it drives me OCD mad.
It's 1 million times worse than the first game. The road tools are amazing- near perfect - but that flexibility is ruined when I'm placing the same road 10 times until the zoning doesn't break (and yes, I do toggle the relevant snap tools etc).
Lastly, no detailing is horrendous. Every city looks the same.
Tree growth is a pain.
With mods, these issues are all resolved which is good but too much is still wrong.
I went back to CS:1 recently - but now I'm stuck - I miss some of the features of CS:2 when I play CS:1 but I miss all of the content of CS:1 when I play 2.
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