solar panels - anyone know much about them?
Discussion
We had HW solar panels fitted on our house in the 1970s! This was during the fuel crises. I remember going to an exhibition with my Dad and he signed up there and then.
In the summer the boiler would hardly come on to heat HW, even in the winter, a change in temperature would start the pump on the panels. They were still working when we sold the house in 2004.
Did we ever get a payback on the original cost of £2k? My dad reckoned we did after 10 years! It was quite a novelty having a shower or bath off the sun.
In the summer the boiler would hardly come on to heat HW, even in the winter, a change in temperature would start the pump on the panels. They were still working when we sold the house in 2004.
Did we ever get a payback on the original cost of £2k? My dad reckoned we did after 10 years! It was quite a novelty having a shower or bath off the sun.
Edited by cjs on Friday 3rd April 11:32
Jasandjules said:
I did some calculations a while ago (though leccie prices were lower) and by the time I'd got back the cost of purchase the units would have been thrown away about 1 year previously..... They were for PV cells. They also appear to be made using NC and that is not environmentally friendly to dispose of. I had a chat with a fellow who came to the door flogging them and he wasn't sure what his were made of, so it is possible that newer ones are not going to be killing the earth and can be safely disposed....But whether they are cost effective is another matter (Oh, and the calcs were done being quite generous with solar activity as well)
Exactly my findings for an analysis we did for a building at work, (photoelctric ones). Until they care significantly cheaper, (like 40% of current cost)it is just not worth it, especially as you will often need planning consent and have those associated costs.
And this ignores the environmental impact (and hence potential cost) of disposal, they're not the most organic of raw materials in there!!!
The water heater ones are a better option, but again there is a long time required before you can forsee any "return" as such.
I believe there is some deveopment with oil filled solar thermal which runs at sufficient temperature to make steam, which can then be used to power a turbine, supposed to be very much more efficient than pv.
Also a lot of work going on with phase change storage for thermal solar which will make it much more effective.
Also a lot of work going on with phase change storage for thermal solar which will make it much more effective.
john_p said:
Slightly OT,
Hi John. I had building services experience and site building experience. There were five of us on the course and all from different backgrounds rangine from property management companies, building companies, and a shop fitter who has the contract for all 'Game' stores. The course is normally a four month affair but this was a concentrated course and it lasted for five days. You get a professional qualification after passing the exam (very straightforward) and submitting a portfolio of three consignments - one which is a virtual building and the other two which are actual. I am still completing these; the calculations are all performed by SBEM software, the data inputting required is collosal, and the time to measure up is also large. My thoughts so far are that:SS HSV said:
Two weeks ago I took a course to enable me to become a Commercial Energy Assessor as I think that the time is coming to get back in the business as I'm entrepreneurial, but I am going in with eyes and ears open and I am going to shop any dodgy practices I find through the correct channels this time.
What was involved in the CEA course? How much prior experience did it require you to have?- The market could become saturated in a few months if many people take the qualification
- The DEA (Domestic Energy) market is overwhelmed and the guys are now fighting over £30 for a house!
- The NDEA course prices vary from £2.5k to £7k depending on with whom and where you take it
- The prices for the report are between £200 to £3000, there is no price regulation, so already the price wars have started, and for small single level buildings like ground-floor shops, £200 does not cover the amount of work required IMHO. Regulation is needed now.
- Rule of thumb was discussed at £1/metre squared, so a 3000m2 buildins is worth doing, but it would take you two weeks to do if you are lucky, and as a NDEA you cannot farm out data collecting unless you yourself at level 4, and the data collector must be level 3, so its not worth paying someone else - you would have to do it all yourself.
- The energy certificate is only the tip of the iceburg. The real money is in running a company which can do the solar/wind/heatpump/insulation/fire technologies which are now emerging, and I have just bought a company expressly to do this.
Time will tell.
Thanks for that. I've been setting up energy management/reporting systems and have a good idea of what's going on in the industry - but no actual experience with building management or surveying etc.
I'll have a look at courses. As you say it would be concerning if it went the way of the residential market, but hopefully there is lots more to consult on e.g. energy reporting, bill validation, cost reduction etc which could go along with it.
I'll have a look at courses. As you say it would be concerning if it went the way of the residential market, but hopefully there is lots more to consult on e.g. energy reporting, bill validation, cost reduction etc which could go along with it.
SS HSV said:
- The energy certificate is only the tip of the iceburg. The real money is in running a company which can do the solar/wind/heatpump/insulation/fire technologies which are now emerging, and I have just bought a company expressly to do this.
Four or five years ago, solar installation companies were the double glazing outfits of the green building world - seen as highly desirable and able to pitch their products at a hefty premium (and with equally suspect sales techniques). However the credit crunch and influx of much cheaper equipment has put a real squeeze on that.
Still, it's easy to be a cynic and much harder to be a rich man. If you can ride out the next eighteen months you could see some satisfying growth. A lot will depend on how the next government address environmental issues, and the direction of energy costs.
Edited by Tuna on Friday 3rd April 14:24
TVR Moneypit said:
Whilst we are on the subject of 'green' energy, do any of you chaps have any experiance of water filteration devices? I'm sure that i have seen a system before that captures rainwater and filters it through gravel. This is then used for flushing your toilets or use in outdoor taps?
What about triple glazing? is that likely to offer a decent return by reducing your heating bills? Could anyone reccomend some good loft instalation as well?
Cheers.
Passing water from one butt (with sealed lids with no gaps in) to a second one at one of my old properties did a great job of acting as a settling tank. The water in the first tank was dirty but good for the garden and the water in the first tank I'd imagine would be fine for plumbing. You could probably drink it if you boiled it first...What about triple glazing? is that likely to offer a decent return by reducing your heating bills? Could anyone reccomend some good loft instalation as well?
Cheers.
Tuna said:
SS HSV said:
- The energy certificate is only the tip of the iceburg. The real money is in running a company which can do the solar/wind/heatpump/insulation/fire technologies which are now emerging, and I have just bought a company expressly to do this.
Four or five years ago, solar installation companies were the double glazing outfits of the green building world - seen as highly desirable and able to pitch their products at a hefty premium (and with equally suspect sales techniques). However the credit crunch and influx of much cheaper equipment has put a real squeeze on that.
Still, it's easy to be a cynic and much harder to be a rich man. If you can ride out the next eighteen months you could see some satisfying growth. A lot will depend on how the next government address environmental issues, and the direction of energy costs.
Edited by Tuna on Friday 3rd April 14:24
TVR Moneypit said:
Whilst we are on the subject of 'green' energy, do any of you chaps have any experiance of water filteration devices? I'm sure that i have seen a system before that captures rainwater and filters it through gravel. This is then used for flushing your toilets or use in outdoor taps?
What about triple glazing? is that likely to offer a decent return by reducing your heating bills? Could anyone reccomend some good loft instalation as well?
Cheers.
Rainwater harvesting is coming under fire lately. It costs a fair whack to set up a system, the reliability/maintenance seems to be questionable and the savings are not so great.What about triple glazing? is that likely to offer a decent return by reducing your heating bills? Could anyone reccomend some good loft instalation as well?
Cheers.
Triple glazing probably isn't worth it unless the rest of your house is insulated to very high standards and nearly airtight. If you already have double glazing, stick with it. If you're replacing single glazing, some companies will do triple for costs that aren't so different from double. The only downside to triple glazing is that it does reduce the light that gets in somewhat.
You get much better returns on improving the insulation elsewhere, fitting draught excluders and so on.
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