Did dentists in the past butcher teeth for financial reward?
Discussion
honda_exige said:
Holy moly I didn't even seen the post above mine 
Kids teeth come out with a flick of the wrist, why would anyone need a knee on a chest? Was he made of tissue paper?
So I imagined the whole thing. Thank the Lord for that. Here’s me been carrying that image all my life and it never even happened. Brilliant , cheers for the info. Wish I’d have met you so much sooner. Kids teeth come out with a flick of the wrist, why would anyone need a knee on a chest? Was he made of tissue paper?
Edited by honda_exige on Wednesday 31st January 13:13
honda_exige said:
I hope your blindness over what I wrote 'no doubt there was a lot of unnecessary dentistry done in the 70s..' doesn't apply to what you stick in your mouth lol.
You know what you ate but as above you may not fully appreciate the science behind it, and in the 70s nor did dentistry. It's frequency of intake over the amount of sugar. So what you ate isn't nearly as important as how often you ate.
But so many factors involved, yes your dentist could well have been on the make but equally, you got older, your eating patterns changed, you got a job so no time to snack between meals, you moved to a flouridated area, you started flossing etc etc.
And I'll stand by the fact that not withstanding your dentist might have been a fraud - a 10yr old can't diagnose if they actually needed treatment, let alone now relying on 50yr old memories.
It's kinda like the amount of people who swear blind that their dentist had one knee on their chest to pull their tooth out, I've never done it, never seen it done, never spoke to anyone who's done it, never figured out how it's physically possible unless your 7ft9...
Holy moly I didn't even seen the post above mine
Kids teeth come out with a flick of the wrist, why would anyone need a knee on a chest? Was he made of tissue paper?
Can you also explain why extractions and fillings were carried out with no anaesthetic ? Is that normal practice or did I imagine that as well ? You know what you ate but as above you may not fully appreciate the science behind it, and in the 70s nor did dentistry. It's frequency of intake over the amount of sugar. So what you ate isn't nearly as important as how often you ate.
But so many factors involved, yes your dentist could well have been on the make but equally, you got older, your eating patterns changed, you got a job so no time to snack between meals, you moved to a flouridated area, you started flossing etc etc.
And I'll stand by the fact that not withstanding your dentist might have been a fraud - a 10yr old can't diagnose if they actually needed treatment, let alone now relying on 50yr old memories.
It's kinda like the amount of people who swear blind that their dentist had one knee on their chest to pull their tooth out, I've never done it, never seen it done, never spoke to anyone who's done it, never figured out how it's physically possible unless your 7ft9...
Holy moly I didn't even seen the post above mine
Kids teeth come out with a flick of the wrist, why would anyone need a knee on a chest? Was he made of tissue paper?
Edited by honda_exige on Wednesday 31st January 13:13
Se7enheaven said:
honda_exige said:
Holy moly I didn't even seen the post above mine
Kids teeth come out with a flick of the wrist, why would anyone need a knee on a chest? Was he made of tissue paper?
So I imagined the whole thing. Thank the Lord for that. Here’s me been carrying that image all my life and it never even happened. Brilliant , cheers for the info. Wish I’d have met you so much sooner. Kids teeth come out with a flick of the wrist, why would anyone need a knee on a chest? Was he made of tissue paper?
Edited by honda_exige on Wednesday 31st January 13:13
The physics don't even make sense, teeth aren't very strong (they are very strong under compression though - but you don't compress a tooth to extract it) when you apply lateral leverage to them and often snap under fairly mild pressure from forceps - any tooth and especially a spindly weak kids tooth would snap in around 0.1 seconds were I to apply anything approaching body weight laterally with forceps.
Here is a challenge - go on Google and find a legitimate picture of a dentist with their knee on someone's chest. Cameras were fairly commonplace in the 70s and 80s so surely someone captured this technique.
Again fundemnatelly kids teeth come out very easily at the flick of a wrist, the only reason a dentist would put their knee on your chest isn't because he was trying to take the tooth out but because he was presumably a wrong'un.
Se7enheaven said:
honda_exige said:
I hope your blindness over what I wrote 'no doubt there was a lot of unnecessary dentistry done in the 70s..' doesn't apply to what you stick in your mouth lol.
You know what you ate but as above you may not fully appreciate the science behind it, and in the 70s nor did dentistry. It's frequency of intake over the amount of sugar. So what you ate isn't nearly as important as how often you ate.
But so many factors involved, yes your dentist could well have been on the make but equally, you got older, your eating patterns changed, you got a job so no time to snack between meals, you moved to a flouridated area, you started flossing etc etc.
And I'll stand by the fact that not withstanding your dentist might have been a fraud - a 10yr old can't diagnose if they actually needed treatment, let alone now relying on 50yr old memories.
It's kinda like the amount of people who swear blind that their dentist had one knee on their chest to pull their tooth out, I've never done it, never seen it done, never spoke to anyone who's done it, never figured out how it's physically possible unless your 7ft9...
Holy moly I didn't even seen the post above mine
Kids teeth come out with a flick of the wrist, why would anyone need a knee on a chest? Was he made of tissue paper?
Can you also explain why extractions and fillings were carried out with no anaesthetic ? Is that normal practice or did I imagine that as well ? You know what you ate but as above you may not fully appreciate the science behind it, and in the 70s nor did dentistry. It's frequency of intake over the amount of sugar. So what you ate isn't nearly as important as how often you ate.
But so many factors involved, yes your dentist could well have been on the make but equally, you got older, your eating patterns changed, you got a job so no time to snack between meals, you moved to a flouridated area, you started flossing etc etc.
And I'll stand by the fact that not withstanding your dentist might have been a fraud - a 10yr old can't diagnose if they actually needed treatment, let alone now relying on 50yr old memories.
It's kinda like the amount of people who swear blind that their dentist had one knee on their chest to pull their tooth out, I've never done it, never seen it done, never spoke to anyone who's done it, never figured out how it's physically possible unless your 7ft9...
Holy moly I didn't even seen the post above mine
Kids teeth come out with a flick of the wrist, why would anyone need a knee on a chest? Was he made of tissue paper?
Edited by honda_exige on Wednesday 31st January 13:13
Joining the dots I would suggest that rather than the dentists knee being on your chest you were being pinned down by a third party such as a parent or nurse but being that your vision was full of dentist the knee on chest seemed a logical explanation of pressure on your chest. And you were being pinned down because you weren't anaesthetised - a traumatic memory for sure. These days either kids let you numb them up or you refer them to sedation.
The dentist I had as a kid was amazing. Owned his own practice, only did fillings if he had to (still have them) and always gave good advice on all sorts of things. When he retired a group bought it out. The dentist there now is always looking to do fillings but it seems that's all she can do. Everything else is farmed out private elsewhere. The fillings don't last either. It's either crap material or using an electric toothbrush is loosening them out. The ones I had at 14 are still there. I've had 3 fall out in as many weeks and now need 2 extractions. NHS is a 12mth wait, private is 3weeks at £300 per tooth. If I want bridges it's £900 per side then 4 crowns to told them. I be looking at probably £2k once it was done. I'll wait, pull them with NHS and leave it be.
KobayashiMaru86 said:
The dentist I had as a kid was amazing. Owned his own practice, only did fillings if he had to (still have them) and always gave good advice on all sorts of things. When he retired a group bought it out. The dentist there now is always looking to do fillings but it seems that's all she can do. Everything else is farmed out private elsewhere. The fillings don't last either. It's either crap material or using an electric toothbrush is loosening them out. The ones I had at 14 are still there. I've had 3 fall out in as many weeks and now need 2 extractions. NHS is a 12mth wait, private is 3weeks at £300 per tooth. If I want bridges it's £900 per side then 4 crowns to told them. I be looking at probably £2k once it was done. I'll wait, pull them with NHS and leave it be.
Doesn't sound great, if they've fallen out that fast they should be redone gratis or get a refund. The exception would be if they said something along the lines of this tooth ideally needs a crown but someone's made an active choice to decline a crown.Corporate groups are often a bad idea as excessively profit driven.
There is sometimes a scenario where the above happens for justified reasons, that a practice is taken over and suddenly people need more work done. You'll often find retiring dentists just aren't as fussed about doing work that needs to be done and taking over find a bunch of undiagnosed issues. Allegedly happens more often in Denplan practices because of the way the payments are structured.
honda_exige said:
KobayashiMaru86 said:
The dentist I had as a kid was amazing. Owned his own practice, only did fillings if he had to (still have them) and always gave good advice on all sorts of things. When he retired a group bought it out. The dentist there now is always looking to do fillings but it seems that's all she can do. Everything else is farmed out private elsewhere. The fillings don't last either. It's either crap material or using an electric toothbrush is loosening them out. The ones I had at 14 are still there. I've had 3 fall out in as many weeks and now need 2 extractions. NHS is a 12mth wait, private is 3weeks at £300 per tooth. If I want bridges it's £900 per side then 4 crowns to told them. I be looking at probably £2k once it was done. I'll wait, pull them with NHS and leave it be.
Doesn't sound great, if they've fallen out that fast they should be redone gratis or get a refund. The exception would be if they said something along the lines of this tooth ideally needs a crown but someone's made an active choice to decline a crown.Corporate groups are often a bad idea as excessively profit driven.
There is sometimes a scenario where the above happens for justified reasons, that a practice is taken over and suddenly people need more work done. You'll often find retiring dentists just aren't as fussed about doing work that needs to be done and taking over find a bunch of undiagnosed issues. Allegedly happens more often in Denplan practices because of the way the payments are structured.
honda_exige said:
Corporate groups are often a bad idea as excessively profit driven.
I'm trying to get my head around why a Corporate group with a chain of private detal clinics would 'buy' a NHS dental practice? My NHS dentist retired and this new outfit took over but what's in it for them?And yes, I think I've answered before that dentists in the 70s were all about making money from unnecessary dental work as the funding was structured differently than today. I'm led to believe it was per individual treatment - 3 x fillings = three lots of pay. A former dentist I know working in the 70s/80s who went on to change career and confirmed the practice was rife.
I ended up at 14 with 4 front crowns as my teeth were a little uneven. In 1978 my mum was charged by the NHS dentist the bargain (private treatment) price of £400. For that we got a lift home in his Scimitar GTE
KobayashiMaru86 said:
The fillings don't last either. It's either crap material or using an electric toothbrush is loosening them out. The ones I had at 14 are still there. I've had 3 fall out in as many weeks and now need 2 extractions. NHS is a 12mth wait, private is 3weeks at £300 per tooth. If I want bridges it's £900 per side then 4 crowns to told them. I be looking at probably £2k once it was done. I'll wait, pull them with NHS and leave it be.
This sounds strangely familiar.See my earlier posts.
Armitage.Shanks said:
honda_exige said:
Corporate groups are often a bad idea as excessively profit driven.
I'm trying to get my head around why a Corporate group with a chain of private detal clinics would 'buy' a NHS dental practice? My NHS dentist retired and this new outfit took over but what's in it for them?And yes, I think I've answered before that dentists in the 70s were all about making money from unnecessary dental work as the funding was structured differently than today. I'm led to believe it was per individual treatment - 3 x fillings = three lots of pay. A former dentist I know working in the 70s/80s who went on to change career and confirmed the practice was rife.
I ended up at 14 with 4 front crowns as my teeth were a little uneven. In 1978 my mum was charged by the NHS dentist the bargain (private treatment) price of £400. For that we got a lift home in his Scimitar GTE
NHS practices for the most part are operating close to the wall, except the ones that were purchased or set up long ago and have cheap or fully paid off mortgages.
But a lot have been stung by the rise in interest rates, it costs over a million to buy a decent size NHS practice and now interest rates have risen many are struggling to stay afloat, as unlike a normal business, you can't just raise fees. Many have closed already or converted to fully private where the socio economic make up of the area allows.
sherbertdip said:
Both my sons, in early 30's no fillings, sister's husband went to a different dentist, 65 years old now, no fillings and discussions revealed diet was roughly the same.
Wife's father had an abnormal fear of the dentist, phobia if you like, he'd not paid a visit since he left school, at 60 his wife died, my wife and her sisters nagged him to go see the dentist and hygienist and get his plaque sorted out. Eventually he went, teeth cleaned up perfectly, no fillings required, he's now 87 no fillings and no extractions.I was a kid in the 70’s and 80’s in the UK and had zero fillings from my NHS dentists. I had 2 back teeth extracted and a series of braces on my top teeth by an orthodontist and had no issues for decades.
Since then I have had surgery on the area above my front top teeth, but this wasn’t tooth related exactly, more to do with the bone or lack thereof, and was done under general anaesthetic by a maxillofacial surgeon here in NZ.
Oh and one filling from the dentist here (non-NHS, obvs). I’m nearly 55.
Does anyone know why dentistry wasn’t properly part of the NHS, like doctors? I’m guessing that it might have something to do with being seen as “cosmetic” rather than “health” in 1948.
Since then I have had surgery on the area above my front top teeth, but this wasn’t tooth related exactly, more to do with the bone or lack thereof, and was done under general anaesthetic by a maxillofacial surgeon here in NZ.
Oh and one filling from the dentist here (non-NHS, obvs). I’m nearly 55.
Does anyone know why dentistry wasn’t properly part of the NHS, like doctors? I’m guessing that it might have something to do with being seen as “cosmetic” rather than “health” in 1948.
Edited by dobly on Saturday 3rd February 05:25
I was born in 1954, my mother was told by the School dentist in the 60's that if he filled all my molars it would 'preserve' my back teeth and I wouldn't need any work done in the future although the teeth had no sign of decay at that time. She agreed to the work being done because she trusted him. I now have 12 untouched teeth, 6 top and 6 bottom at the front. As for the rest I had 3 wisdom teeth removed a few years ago and my 4 pre-molars were removed in childhood due to overcrowding. I have 7 crowns, one of which is attached to a bridge, 3 molars which have been re-filled several times, 1 molar which was removed due to an abscess and the molar next to the gap had to be removed a year ago because the filling broke, the tooth split vertically and couldn't be saved.
There is no way I can afford tooth replacements.
So yes I feel personally that many in my age group were failed abysmally by the NHS dentists of our youth.
In contrast, my 2 children who are 37 and 40 respectively go to Private Dentists every 6 months, have no fillings and only need to see a hygienist annually.
There is no way I can afford tooth replacements.
So yes I feel personally that many in my age group were failed abysmally by the NHS dentists of our youth.
In contrast, my 2 children who are 37 and 40 respectively go to Private Dentists every 6 months, have no fillings and only need to see a hygienist annually.
SueCee54 said:
I was born in 1954, my mother was told by the School dentist in the 60's that if he filled all my molars it would 'preserve' my back teeth and I wouldn't need any work done in the future although the teeth had no sign of decay at that time. She agreed to the work being done because she trusted him. I now have 12 untouched teeth, 6 top and 6 bottom at the front. As for the rest I had 3 wisdom teeth removed a few years ago and my 4 pre-molars were removed in childhood due to overcrowding. I have 7 crowns, one of which is attached to a bridge, 3 molars which have been re-filled several times, 1 molar which was removed due to an abscess and the molar next to the gap had to be removed a year ago because the filling broke, the tooth split vertically and couldn't be saved.
There is no way I can afford tooth replacements.
So yes I feel personally that many in my age group were failed abysmally by the NHS dentists of our youth.
In contrast, my 2 children who are 37 and 40 respectively go to Private Dentists every 6 months, have no fillings and only need to see a hygienist annually.
I know you said you can't afford replacements but my sisters husband had an accident at work, losing all his top teeth. He paid £4k for "turkey teeth" and geniunly perfect, that included a week of all inclusive that he couldnt eat at haha but still. Better than the over 20 grand he was quoted. Obviously, I know you need to research, but at those prices, it's doable. There is no way I can afford tooth replacements.
So yes I feel personally that many in my age group were failed abysmally by the NHS dentists of our youth.
In contrast, my 2 children who are 37 and 40 respectively go to Private Dentists every 6 months, have no fillings and only need to see a hygienist annually.
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