Did dentists in the past butcher teeth for financial reward?
Discussion
Armitage.Shanks said:
BrickCounter said:
Yep same here.
He also held the record in the local rugby club for how many 2p pieces he could fit in his foreskin!
Did he partner up with the chap who could stretch his scrotum across the top of a bar stool? Quite infamous in some circlesHe also held the record in the local rugby club for how many 2p pieces he could fit in his foreskin!
CoolHands said:
But how do I know the bottom ones need replacing? I think it might only be that on both of them, a corner of my original tooth has broken off. But I don’t care (it’s smooth to the touch) unless that means they need replacing (perhaps to stop a gap opening up?). He didn’t really say why, just that they need replacing.
I would definitely ask, and question it. I will be doing so every time in future with my new dentist.
Afterwards I started wondering if the bottom 2 was just cosmetic or because they are failing in some other wayMy previous dentist did this.
Back in 2015 I went to the dentist for a check up after not going for 7 years (working 7-5 with 2 hours travel on top and virtually no time off made it kind of difficult) they did an X-ray just to check everything was ok. All was good, told to keep up whatever I had been doing and book in for 6 months time.
6 months later, another X-ray and it’s a disaster. Apparently one tooth was rotting from the inside out and I would need root canal etc. He spent ages drilling said tooth out, stuck a temporary filling and said there might be an outside chance I didn’t need root canal but he was doubtful and to come back in two months.
7 years later the temporary filling is still in, the tooth has broken away a bit round it because he drilled so much out but certainly no troubles like he said I had got.
I know I need to go somewhere and get the mess he made sorted out but I have got trust issues now.
Back in 2015 I went to the dentist for a check up after not going for 7 years (working 7-5 with 2 hours travel on top and virtually no time off made it kind of difficult) they did an X-ray just to check everything was ok. All was good, told to keep up whatever I had been doing and book in for 6 months time.
6 months later, another X-ray and it’s a disaster. Apparently one tooth was rotting from the inside out and I would need root canal etc. He spent ages drilling said tooth out, stuck a temporary filling and said there might be an outside chance I didn’t need root canal but he was doubtful and to come back in two months.
7 years later the temporary filling is still in, the tooth has broken away a bit round it because he drilled so much out but certainly no troubles like he said I had got.
I know I need to go somewhere and get the mess he made sorted out but I have got trust issues now.
Gtom said:
I know I need to go somewhere and get the mess he made sorted out but I have got trust issues now.
Understandably. If it is a car problem, I know mostly what I'm looking at, but if a dentist tells me my teeth are damaged, how do I know if it is correct?Having had one root canal as a result of a crap filling and almost being conned into having another following another Amateurish replacement filling, I am now much more wary.
A previous dentist drilled a hole in one of my lower incisors while re-doing a tooth behind it.
Said it had some decay.
Months later I needed a root canal on it. Went elsewhere. Cost £250+ all in and a week of pain.
That was 20 years ago.
Another dentist said I’d need a wisdom tooth out, and it’d be agony/pain in the coming years… big job. Expensive.
Left it. Now a decade later. No issues. Current dentist (one I trust) said it’d have been bad news pulling a wisdom tooth without very good cause… risks of nerve damage etc.
I feel private is way better than NHS, and if you find a good one, they seem to focus on cleaning and gums now, more than tinkering with teeth.
My current place likes to make their money on hygienists I think… but at least it’s not ruining your teeth!
Said it had some decay.
Months later I needed a root canal on it. Went elsewhere. Cost £250+ all in and a week of pain.
That was 20 years ago.
Another dentist said I’d need a wisdom tooth out, and it’d be agony/pain in the coming years… big job. Expensive.
Left it. Now a decade later. No issues. Current dentist (one I trust) said it’d have been bad news pulling a wisdom tooth without very good cause… risks of nerve damage etc.
I feel private is way better than NHS, and if you find a good one, they seem to focus on cleaning and gums now, more than tinkering with teeth.
My current place likes to make their money on hygienists I think… but at least it’s not ruining your teeth!
Mr Whippy said:
I feel private is way better than NHS, and if you find a good one, they seem to focus on cleaning and gums now, more than tinkering with teeth.
My current place likes to make their money on hygienists I think… but at least it’s not ruining your teeth!
Do they use snake oil during their cleaning? A school mate is a dentist (too far away for me to be his patient) and he told me a while ago that all of that scraping and cleaning had little/no point.My current place likes to make their money on hygienists I think… but at least it’s not ruining your teeth!
I am still with an NHS dentist. I saw little point in paying more, and regularly, for the few times I need one. My work health care plan has a small dental allowance.
Ps. I thankfully inherited no wisdom teeth. One less thing to think about.
Edited by MC Bodge on Sunday 16th January 17:37
This is anonymized letter I sent to the dental practice my family and I had been using for many years. The lady dentist who had treated us perfectly unfortunately retired and I was left with a young male practitioner - Mr y - whose brother also worked at the practice and had joined at the same time as the lady we'd had before and another partner in the practice both retired. I should have heard alarm bells...
Letter to dental practice said:
In December 2009, at a routine check-up, Mr y recommended that my lower left 5th (LL5) should be filled as the existing amalgam filling had been lost. I was advised that a composite filling would be the material of choice as it is more robust and clearly aesthetically preferable. He explained that whilst an amalgam filling is retained only by mechanical undercuts, the composite filling forms an adhesive bond with the tooth. This, he said, meant that it would have a potentially longer life. The disadvantage was that only amalgam was available on the NHS and that a white composite would be a private option at £120. Nevertheless I opted for the composite. This tooth has, to date, given me no trouble.
Approximately six months after the above, in June 2010, at a routine check-up I was told that my LL7 had a leaky amalgam filling and that my UL7 needed an onlay – the options and costs were laid out to me. As the UL7 tooth was not troubling me I declined that particular treatment for the moment. The also asymptomatic LL7, however, was said to be more in need of treatment due to the apparently leaky amalgam filling. Again I was told of the advantages of composite fillings over amalgams with particular stress on durability. I opted for the £120 composite instead of the NHS amalgam because I felt that an investment in the tooth would ensure its longevity. This treatment was carried out on July 29th 2010.
Moving on to January 2011; I began to suffer acute discomfort in the LL7 when it was stressed. This rapidly became painful and an emergency appointment was arranged with Mr y on 21st January. He x-rayed the tooth and told me it was infected; a prescription for erythromycin was given to treat the infection. I was also told that the only treatment possible, bar extraction, was a root canal filling. The choices were between an NHS treatment which, I was told, had a 50% failure rate at five years, and a private treatment which was 95% successful beyond five years. Despite the large price penalty, because I felt that I could ill afford to lose the tooth I reluctantly opted for the private treatment. At this point I did not appreciate that this was the very same tooth that I had spent £120 on ‘preserving’ a mere six months previously.
On 4th February and subsequently on 10th February, the root canal treatment was performed. A further appointment three months later was made at which a crown was to be fitted if the root canal treatment had proved effective in the interim. This was, it was explained, to be a longer term protection for the root-filled tooth. Some persuasion was exercised to convince me that a private crown would be not only made from superior materials compared with the NHS alternative, but that the quality of workmanship in the preparation would be better. Somewhat disconcerted that NHS crowns might be shoddily made from inferior materials, I declined to choose at that point and I resolved to research the subject during the three month interim.
By mid-March the biting-down tenderness that I had experienced prior to the root filling of LL7 had returned. A further visit to Mr y was arranged and at that time it was discovered that the tooth had fractured vertically and that no repair was possible. It was subsequently extracted – an event that I had sought to defer indefinitely in the very first instance in summer 2010. I have been left now with a missing tooth that some nine or so months earlier was giving me no trouble whatsoever but that I was persuaded to spend £520 on preserving for some time into the future. Not only am I the poorer financially, but have undergone uncomfortable treatment that, had the tooth been left alone in the first place, might not have been needed and I might still have the tooth in situ. I am aggrieved that in decades of satisfactory treatment at your practice, in the last year I have spent hundreds of pounds that could well have been saved, and I am still minus a valued tooth. I do not believe that this failure rate can be typical of modern dental treatment, private or NHS, because, if it were, it would have been the subject of media attention long since.
I will leave this matter in your hands for now in the hope that we can reach a mutually satisfactory conclusion in due course.
The outcome was a refund of a couple of hundred pounds which I accepted reluctantly as I didn't fancy a long battle with the practice.Approximately six months after the above, in June 2010, at a routine check-up I was told that my LL7 had a leaky amalgam filling and that my UL7 needed an onlay – the options and costs were laid out to me. As the UL7 tooth was not troubling me I declined that particular treatment for the moment. The also asymptomatic LL7, however, was said to be more in need of treatment due to the apparently leaky amalgam filling. Again I was told of the advantages of composite fillings over amalgams with particular stress on durability. I opted for the £120 composite instead of the NHS amalgam because I felt that an investment in the tooth would ensure its longevity. This treatment was carried out on July 29th 2010.
Moving on to January 2011; I began to suffer acute discomfort in the LL7 when it was stressed. This rapidly became painful and an emergency appointment was arranged with Mr y on 21st January. He x-rayed the tooth and told me it was infected; a prescription for erythromycin was given to treat the infection. I was also told that the only treatment possible, bar extraction, was a root canal filling. The choices were between an NHS treatment which, I was told, had a 50% failure rate at five years, and a private treatment which was 95% successful beyond five years. Despite the large price penalty, because I felt that I could ill afford to lose the tooth I reluctantly opted for the private treatment. At this point I did not appreciate that this was the very same tooth that I had spent £120 on ‘preserving’ a mere six months previously.
On 4th February and subsequently on 10th February, the root canal treatment was performed. A further appointment three months later was made at which a crown was to be fitted if the root canal treatment had proved effective in the interim. This was, it was explained, to be a longer term protection for the root-filled tooth. Some persuasion was exercised to convince me that a private crown would be not only made from superior materials compared with the NHS alternative, but that the quality of workmanship in the preparation would be better. Somewhat disconcerted that NHS crowns might be shoddily made from inferior materials, I declined to choose at that point and I resolved to research the subject during the three month interim.
By mid-March the biting-down tenderness that I had experienced prior to the root filling of LL7 had returned. A further visit to Mr y was arranged and at that time it was discovered that the tooth had fractured vertically and that no repair was possible. It was subsequently extracted – an event that I had sought to defer indefinitely in the very first instance in summer 2010. I have been left now with a missing tooth that some nine or so months earlier was giving me no trouble whatsoever but that I was persuaded to spend £520 on preserving for some time into the future. Not only am I the poorer financially, but have undergone uncomfortable treatment that, had the tooth been left alone in the first place, might not have been needed and I might still have the tooth in situ. I am aggrieved that in decades of satisfactory treatment at your practice, in the last year I have spent hundreds of pounds that could well have been saved, and I am still minus a valued tooth. I do not believe that this failure rate can be typical of modern dental treatment, private or NHS, because, if it were, it would have been the subject of media attention long since.
I will leave this matter in your hands for now in the hope that we can reach a mutually satisfactory conclusion in due course.
My dentist as a youth was struck off twice.
The first time was for NHS fraud - got caught out as the PPE / consumables he was buying did not tally up with the claimed work. He was allowed to return to practice so long as the practice was supervised.
His final strike was when he was operating as a prison dentist and allowing / encouraging inmates to perform dental work on each other.
I have a mouth full of metal, most of which I believe was unnecessary. I haven’t had a new filling since I was 15.
The first time was for NHS fraud - got caught out as the PPE / consumables he was buying did not tally up with the claimed work. He was allowed to return to practice so long as the practice was supervised.
His final strike was when he was operating as a prison dentist and allowing / encouraging inmates to perform dental work on each other.
I have a mouth full of metal, most of which I believe was unnecessary. I haven’t had a new filling since I was 15.
Reading this thread I feel sorry for some of you. You really drew the short straw with your dentists.
On the other hand I also see that your knowledge of dentistry is quite poor and you are assuming much and think the job is straightforward. Sometimes it isn’t and risks need to be explained to you but even when they are and patients accept it, if things go wrong that conversation is forgotten.
Anyways, I work mostly to explain my patients what problems they have, if any, and what they can do about them, including doing nothing. Pros and cons, etc. think of it as a surveyor and report.
I don’t decide for my patients what they should do, I may recommend an option or two but always giving them the full picture. There’s no need in chasing the pound sign. Treat them properly and the income is there.
I am not ashamed or have a problem charging properly for my knowledge and skill, why should I? No different to any other job. My house, holidays, etc do not come into the equation.
Ask your dentist to explain all options clearly, ask questions. Most are very happy to explain it. Educate yourself but don’t expect to be a dentist with a few google searches. I always welcome informed questions and really want you to make an informed decision on treatments.
The sad part is that a small part of dentists are only interested in “selling” and they do it badly. Absolutely no selling required, plenty of solid basic work around but it’s not “cool”.
Being in the field it’s bad… but lists of good professional too so don’t put us all in the same bag.
I love my job, pride myself for my professionalism and I can sleep at night. Not everyone is a leech, butcher or a con.
On the other hand I also see that your knowledge of dentistry is quite poor and you are assuming much and think the job is straightforward. Sometimes it isn’t and risks need to be explained to you but even when they are and patients accept it, if things go wrong that conversation is forgotten.
Anyways, I work mostly to explain my patients what problems they have, if any, and what they can do about them, including doing nothing. Pros and cons, etc. think of it as a surveyor and report.
I don’t decide for my patients what they should do, I may recommend an option or two but always giving them the full picture. There’s no need in chasing the pound sign. Treat them properly and the income is there.
I am not ashamed or have a problem charging properly for my knowledge and skill, why should I? No different to any other job. My house, holidays, etc do not come into the equation.
Ask your dentist to explain all options clearly, ask questions. Most are very happy to explain it. Educate yourself but don’t expect to be a dentist with a few google searches. I always welcome informed questions and really want you to make an informed decision on treatments.
The sad part is that a small part of dentists are only interested in “selling” and they do it badly. Absolutely no selling required, plenty of solid basic work around but it’s not “cool”.
Being in the field it’s bad… but lists of good professional too so don’t put us all in the same bag.
I love my job, pride myself for my professionalism and I can sleep at night. Not everyone is a leech, butcher or a con.
CrgT16 said:
Reading this thread I feel sorry for some of you. You really drew the short straw with your dentists.
On the other hand I also see that your knowledge of dentistry is quite poor and you are assuming much and think the job is straightforward. Sometimes it isn’t and risks need to be explained to you but even when they are and patients accept it, if things go wrong that conversation is forgotten.
Anyways, I work mostly to explain my patients what problems they have, if any, and what they can do about them, including doing nothing. Pros and cons, etc. think of it as a surveyor and report.
I don’t decide for my patients what they should do, I may recommend an option or two but always giving them the full picture. There’s no need in chasing the pound sign. Treat them properly and the income is there.
I am not ashamed or have a problem charging properly for my knowledge and skill, why should I? No different to any other job. My house, holidays, etc do not come into the equation.
Ask your dentist to explain all options clearly, ask questions. Most are very happy to explain it. Educate yourself but don’t expect to be a dentist with a few google searches. I always welcome informed questions and really want you to make an informed decision on treatments.
The sad part is that a small part of dentists are only interested in “selling” and they do it badly. Absolutely no selling required, plenty of solid basic work around but it’s not “cool”.
Being in the field it’s bad… but lists of good professional too so don’t put us all in the same bag.
I love my job, pride myself for my professionalism and I can sleep at night. Not everyone is a leech, butcher or a con.
I get the impression that the business has changed. I can remember the point at which I stopped being given fillings. It coincided with me changing dentists!On the other hand I also see that your knowledge of dentistry is quite poor and you are assuming much and think the job is straightforward. Sometimes it isn’t and risks need to be explained to you but even when they are and patients accept it, if things go wrong that conversation is forgotten.
Anyways, I work mostly to explain my patients what problems they have, if any, and what they can do about them, including doing nothing. Pros and cons, etc. think of it as a surveyor and report.
I don’t decide for my patients what they should do, I may recommend an option or two but always giving them the full picture. There’s no need in chasing the pound sign. Treat them properly and the income is there.
I am not ashamed or have a problem charging properly for my knowledge and skill, why should I? No different to any other job. My house, holidays, etc do not come into the equation.
Ask your dentist to explain all options clearly, ask questions. Most are very happy to explain it. Educate yourself but don’t expect to be a dentist with a few google searches. I always welcome informed questions and really want you to make an informed decision on treatments.
The sad part is that a small part of dentists are only interested in “selling” and they do it badly. Absolutely no selling required, plenty of solid basic work around but it’s not “cool”.
Being in the field it’s bad… but lists of good professional too so don’t put us all in the same bag.
I love my job, pride myself for my professionalism and I can sleep at night. Not everyone is a leech, butcher or a con.
Anecdotal evidence suggests that dentists in the 70s and 80s performed unnecessary work to enrich themselves. Speaking as a professional, does this tally with your opinion?
The local grammar school I attended in the 70s had its own dental surgery on site. The just before I left at 18, the dentist drilled out the numerous fillings that he’d previously put in and re filled them.
I then went to work at Sellafield, who also had their own on site dentist. Within a few months he’d drilled all my fillings out and redid them again.
Two years later in 1980 I moved jobs and home. The NHS dentist in the new town wasted no time in drilling out the previous work and redoing it all.
So in a period of 3 years, I’d had all my fillings replaced 3 times . I concluded that dentists were unscrupulous, self serving gits and so avoided them for many years
I then went to work at Sellafield, who also had their own on site dentist. Within a few months he’d drilled all my fillings out and redid them again.
Two years later in 1980 I moved jobs and home. The NHS dentist in the new town wasted no time in drilling out the previous work and redoing it all.
So in a period of 3 years, I’d had all my fillings replaced 3 times . I concluded that dentists were unscrupulous, self serving gits and so avoided them for many years
Interestingly enough I was thinking only the other day how my both my teenage daughters don't have a single filling, yet by their age the majority of my molars had fillings. I used to dread going to the dentist as virtually every single time I would need a new filling. I never even thought that they might have given me unnecessary fillings, but the realisation this may have been the case has now really pissed me off.
As others have stated, since I have been an adult I have not had to have a single new filling, only replacements for existing ones.
I really wish I had teeth like my children's, and not full of NHS grey fillings.
As others have stated, since I have been an adult I have not had to have a single new filling, only replacements for existing ones.
I really wish I had teeth like my children's, and not full of NHS grey fillings.
Louis Balfour said:
and it took about 20 injections
Really? I'm surprised at that.The most number of injections I remember giving to a patient for a single tooth treatment in my 42 year career was about half-a-dozen, for a difficult lower wisdom tooth extraction.
If you haven't exaggerated, I suggest you find a different dentist with a better LA (local anaesthetic) administration technique!
Jaaws said:
Louis Balfour said:
and it took about 20 injections
Really? I'm surprised at that.The most number of injections I remember giving to a patient for a single tooth treatment in my 42 year career was about half-a-dozen, for a difficult lower wisdom tooth extraction.
If you haven't exaggerated, I suggest you find a different dentist with a better LA (local anaesthetic) administration technique!
It was a lower molar on the left.
Even after I had no sensation in the left side of my whole head, I got a dull stabbing pain in my neck as he went in with the drill. Not horrific, but like someone jabbing a finger in my neck.
I'd say is a pretty good dentist and is well-regarded locally.
It was probably the most unpleasant dentistry I can remember.
Same story here. 70s and early 80s fillings galore. And they were a painful experience. The massive needle/injection.
The crooked dentist basically filled my mouth with silver from age 12 to 14. A dozen fillings.
Not had a filling since. Well there is no teeth left to fill.
My daugher is that age now and of course not a single filling.
My dentist is only late 20s and he was telling me about this carry on last time i visited .so is well known .
How could these 'dentists' do such an awful thing to kids. Make me mad now we know what went down.
The crooked dentist basically filled my mouth with silver from age 12 to 14. A dozen fillings.
Not had a filling since. Well there is no teeth left to fill.
My daugher is that age now and of course not a single filling.
My dentist is only late 20s and he was telling me about this carry on last time i visited .so is well known .
How could these 'dentists' do such an awful thing to kids. Make me mad now we know what went down.
Louis Balfour said:
Jaaws said:
Louis Balfour said:
and it took about 20 injections
Really? I'm surprised at that.The most number of injections I remember giving to a patient for a single tooth treatment in my 42 year career was about half-a-dozen, for a difficult lower wisdom tooth extraction.
If you haven't exaggerated, I suggest you find a different dentist with a better LA (local anaesthetic) administration technique!
It was a lower molar on the left.
Even after I had no sensation in the left side of my whole head, I got a dull stabbing pain in my neck as he went in with the drill. Not horrific, but like someone jabbing a finger in my neck.
I'd say is a pretty good dentist and is well-regarded locally.
It was probably the most unpleasant dentistry I can remember.
The last 2 occasions with them, I 'needed' a filling, one was very minor and 1 was more stubborn, an old one that falls out every year so an inlay was attempted.
To attempt the inlay, I had 2 injections, she started drilling I said ouch so eventually had another 3 injections. I still had full feeling in my mouth and even though she'd started drilling, we had overrun our timeslot so she abandoned.
Went back following week and saw a different dentist at the same practice as my regular wasn't in. Pretty much the same thing happened, another 5 injections but he was more stubborn and made more progress with drilling. But there was no way he could do all the required drilling as the pain was too uncomfortable. So he too abandoned and put a filling in instead of the inlay.
That filling continues to fall out regularly but I'd had enough of the old dentist and tried a new one (NHS). I told them about my anaesthetic issues and she said she'd like to try anyway. She managed to successfully numb my mouth with 2 injections and did a more proper job of the filling. Still no inlay though, can't afford that at the moment as they're saying it's private job, with root canal thrown in for good measure. I have no pain with this tooth (even when filling falls out) so am happy to just have the filling redone annually.
Up until this point I thought my previous dentist was good and I was just unlucky regarding the anaesthetic (anatomically challenging they called it). But my new dentist is so much better.
I seem to have had anaesthetic issues all my life as I'm super paranoid of drilling now after too many experiences of suddenly feeling the drill 'hit a nerve.
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