So, now that the GT4 specs are finally known....
Poll: So, now that the GT4 specs are finally known....
Total Members Polled: 158
Discussion
Steve Rance said:
So much more potetial in the 997 Gen 1. The engine alone would make it a no brainer or me
997.2 RS with sharkwerks 4.1 :-) would be my idealhow does a gen 1 have more potential then the gen 2, or you you mean more potential than a GT4
The issue I have with the GT3 and it's well know I dislike this issue is the low down torque you are left with on UK B roads at 90 mph as its ni on impossible to rev the thing out in 3rd gear to enjoy the car.
the GT4 has more torque and 1000 rpm lower than the 997 GT3 ? ie 310 lb/ft at 4700rpm vs 299lb/ft at 5500rpm
now while on track the GT3 sings, on B roads it's a pain in the arse to drive just because of that single issue.
while the GT4 will still do 86 mph in 2nd :-( at least when you pop in into 3rd you should have some shove there at 5k revs
While I loved owning my GT3 I never enjoyed driving it because of that single reason, I have no idea why other people don't have the issue !!!
The GT4 could also be annoying on B roads, but who knows till June/July ?
Mario149 said:
Steve Rance said:
So much more potetial in the 997 Gen 1. The engine alone would make it a no brainer or me
Do you engine potential, or general potential in the car?I know they are US based but you can see what SharkWerks do with the the 997 engines - would be awesome to bring that kind of knowledge back home! - how about it, Alex!
From a chassis perspective you can do what Steve is looking to do and take it to almost cup level for the road.
Edited by TDT on Wednesday 4th February 12:01
PorscheGT4 said:
Steve Rance said:
So much more potetial in the 997 Gen 1. The engine alone would make it a no brainer or me
997.2 RS with sharkwerks 4.1 :-) would be my idealhow does a gen 1 have more potential then the gen 2, or you you mean more potential than a GT4
The issue I have with the GT3 and it's well know I dislike this issue is the low down torque you are left with on UK B roads at 90 mph as its ni on impossible to rev the thing out in 3rd gear to enjoy the car.
the GT4 has more torque and 1000 rpm lower than the 997 GT3 ? ie 310 lb/ft at 4700rpm vs 299lb/ft at 5500rpm
now while on track the GT3 sings, on B roads it's a pain in the arse to drive just because of that single issue.
while the GT4 will still do 86 mph in 2nd :-( at least when you pop in into 3rd you should have some shove there at 5k revs
While I loved owning my GT3 I never enjoyed driving it because of that single reason, I have no idea why other people don't have the issue !!!
The GT4 could also be annoying on B roads, but who knows till June/July ?
If it was a £1k change rather then a £3k change to make, I'd be all over it. As it is, since you can't rag the car properly on the road anyway, I'll leave as is for the moment as the gearing works fine on track where I intend to continue taking the car a lot.
As an aside, GTS manual gearing is unforgivably long in my book for the B/C GTSs, which is one of the main reasons why I'm going PDK for my BGTS
Mario149 said:
Do you engine potential, or general potential in the car?
The engine in the GT3 is probably one of the best engines that ever found it's way into a road registered road car. I believe it costs over £30K to replace. The chassis is derived from the 997 cup car and the 997 Cup car is a fast as the 991 cup car. Ergo as the 991 GT3 road car is quicker than the 997 GT3, the 997 road car has a lot more potential to be unlocked - which you can quite easily by fitting different dampers. You can take the 997 Gt3 all the way to propper GT racing spec without changing any of the running gear. I cannot think of any other water cooled car that you can do that to other thn a 996 Gt3. I have a 997Gt3 gen 1 clubsport and there is absolutely no way that I would even consider selling it or swapping it for the GT4. Dont get me wrong, the GT4 looks a nice car but a GT3 it is not. It's unfair to the GT4 to make the comparison.
Edited by Steve Rance on Wednesday 4th February 12:48
pete a said:
The GT4 looks fantastic, will drive well I'm sure and will be a huge success,
"BUT"
The idea that you pay £75-£80k and get a de-tuned 991 Carrera S engine just annoys me too much. Why not just fit the standard 400ps Carrera S lump or better yet the 430ps power kitted engine, why go to the trouble of making something less than it already is?
One of the things i love about my 997.1 GT3 is that the 415ps 3.6 Mezger lump is as good as it could possibly be, they couldn't improve on it for the 997.1RS so fitted exactly the same engine, when they needed an upgrade for the 997.2 they had to up the displacement to 3.8 to get that bit extra.
Not sure you would notice the 10 or so missing bhp from the carrera S ,(if it is missing them ..see the evo interview) ,so think more along the lines of you are getting a better car than a carrera s,with the same engine for £25k less .The lack of a proper Motorsport department engine is the only negative though for me."BUT"
The idea that you pay £75-£80k and get a de-tuned 991 Carrera S engine just annoys me too much. Why not just fit the standard 400ps Carrera S lump or better yet the 430ps power kitted engine, why go to the trouble of making something less than it already is?
One of the things i love about my 997.1 GT3 is that the 415ps 3.6 Mezger lump is as good as it could possibly be, they couldn't improve on it for the 997.1RS so fitted exactly the same engine, when they needed an upgrade for the 997.2 they had to up the displacement to 3.8 to get that bit extra.
Steve Rance said:
The engine in the GT3 is probably one of the best engines that ever found it's way into a road registered road car. I believe it costs over £30K to replace. The chassis is derived from the 997 cup car and the 997 Cup car is a fast as the 991 cup car. Ergo as the 991 GT3 road car is quicker than the 997 GT3, the 997 road car has a lot more potential to be unlocked - which you can quite easily by fitting different dampers. You can take the 997 Gt3 all the way to propper GT racing spec without changing any of the running gear. I cannot think of any other water cooled car that you can do that to other thn a 996 Gt3.
I have a 997Gt3 gen 1 clubsport and there is absolutely no way that I would even consider selling it or swapping it for the GT4.
Interesting!I have a 997Gt3 gen 1 clubsport and there is absolutely no way that I would even consider selling it or swapping it for the GT4.
Steve Rance said:
Dont get me wrong, the GT4 looks a nice car but a GT3 it is not. It's unfair to the GT4 to make the comparison.
The phrase "knife to a gunfight" springs to mind PorscheGT4 said:
Mario149 said:
The phrase "knife to a gunfight" springs to mind
not if the GT4 posts a sub 7.40 ring timeI think the GT4 looks great from what I've read;
I never found the relatively long gearing on the GT3 (996) an issue on the road - just use three gears ....
The only person I knew who went for the shorter gearing actually went back to stock
I think it's a shame they ditched the Mezger engine, but totally understand the reasons why (cost)
but, who knows - the new GTx engines might turn out rather good in the long run.
the Mezger wasn't without it faults....
GT4 fills a different niche for me - 50/50 track to road, whereas the GT3 was always 90/10 track to road
or maybe that was just me
I never found the relatively long gearing on the GT3 (996) an issue on the road - just use three gears ....
The only person I knew who went for the shorter gearing actually went back to stock
I think it's a shame they ditched the Mezger engine, but totally understand the reasons why (cost)
but, who knows - the new GTx engines might turn out rather good in the long run.
the Mezger wasn't without it faults....
GT4 fills a different niche for me - 50/50 track to road, whereas the GT3 was always 90/10 track to road
or maybe that was just me
CheesyFootballs said:
Will the Gt4 to GT3 become what the M135i is to the M3?
hmmm - I think more like M2 to the M3/4 although the M3/4 used to be in the same 'class' as the GT3 - E46/996 Generation.The GT3 has moved up.
The M3/4 in current guises are straight road cars - so unless there is a GTS/CSL variant do not line up at all.
The M2 if there is a GTS/CSL variant will line up with the GT4 although the GT4 will be more expensive and the better driving tool.
As AP says - no real competition - only challenge to my mind is the Lotus Exige V6 S/Cup/Cup R
red997 said:
I think the GT4 looks great from what I've read;
I never found the relatively long gearing on the GT3 (996) an issue on the road - just use three gears ....
But you only really get to use 2 & 3/4 gears. IMO, in a sportcars meant to be driven on the road as well as track, you should be able to rev out the car in the first 3 gears without losing your licence instantly in extremis i.e. over 100mph. In a GT4 (and 997.1 GT3) you cannot. I had both my 993 and GT3 on track on Sunday. In terms of enjoyment purely considering the gear change, I would say I had more fun swapping cogs in the 993 at Brands than I did in the GT3 as there was more of it. Sure the GT3 change is sweeter, but in the 993 I could get 4th on the way up to Druids if I nailed Paddock (GT3 I could keep 3rd), I could snatch 3rd between Druids and Graham Hill (stayed in 2nd in the GT3) and could squeeze into 5th on Brabham straight if I nailed Clarke (only 4th in the GT3).I never found the relatively long gearing on the GT3 (996) an issue on the road - just use three gears ....
red997 said:
GT4 fills a different niche for me - 50/50 track to road, whereas the GT3 was always 90/10 track to road
or maybe that was just me
If the GT4 is 50/50 track road then it should *definitgely* have shorter gearing or maybe that was just me
red997 said:
I think the GT4 looks great from what I've read;
I never found the relatively long gearing on the GT3 (996) an issue on the road - just use three gears ....
The only person I knew who went for the shorter gearing actually went back to stock
I think it's a shame they ditched the Mezger engine, but totally understand the reasons why (cost)
but, who knows - the new GTx engines might turn out rather good in the long run.
the Mezger wasn't without it faults....
GT4 fills a different niche for me - 50/50 track to road, whereas the GT3 was always 90/10 track to road
or maybe that was just me
Exactly ,everyone has different needs ,those complaining about it are doing so because it doesn't fit their particular niche ,fair enough ,just don't bloody try to piss on the chips of those who do like the car,which really seems to a trait exhibited uniquely on ph porsche forums.I never found the relatively long gearing on the GT3 (996) an issue on the road - just use three gears ....
The only person I knew who went for the shorter gearing actually went back to stock
I think it's a shame they ditched the Mezger engine, but totally understand the reasons why (cost)
but, who knows - the new GTx engines might turn out rather good in the long run.
the Mezger wasn't without it faults....
GT4 fills a different niche for me - 50/50 track to road, whereas the GT3 was always 90/10 track to road
or maybe that was just me
I'm pretty confident it will be Porsches best car bar the 991gt3 .
Vs a 997gt3 ,who cares ? Wonderful on track ,but to use every day on the road ,you've got to be a bit mental tbh.
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