EV with real 300+ mile range?
Discussion
PinkHouse said:
TheDeuce said:
plfrench said:
Our net fleet of Diesel cars in the UK reduced by over 1400 per day, every day in 2023. There were over 500k fewer by the end of the year than at the beginning. That’s nearly 5% of the Diesel fleet gone in one year! The rate of disappearance of Diesels will only increase from here onwards, so perhaps we can avoid those pesky speed limit reductions by the skin of our teeth!
I hope so! I'm sure some of our lords and masters will still want lower speed limits 'just because', but the disappearance of diesels certainly undermines the environmental angle that justifies it, and potentially would have made it a relatively easy sell to some voters.Speaking of the fall from grace of diesel cars in general, anyone that has one should probably consider switching out into EV or petrol/hybrid sooner rather than later - because although ICE is going nowhere anytime particularly soon, diesel specifically is both unfashionable and set to become increasingly expensive if even euro 6 compliant cars start to pay to enter ulez zones, which themselves are set to increase in size and number. I'm not suggesting it's wrong to have a diesel - but it seems very likely to me that increasingly people will look change to petrol (or EV) sooner rather than later rather than be 'stuck' with a diesel in a few years time. These things are often self fulfilling prophecies, IE if enough people worry their car will lose value, that in itself pushes the value down.
My own plan, finances allowing.. is to buy a fun petrol car that I think will be a good example of the 'best of' ICE and keep it as a weekend toy and cherished car as a future investment. I can imagine the right petrol car could eventually become quite valuable if looked after and minimal miles, but I really don't see that happening with a diesel.
I made a comment earlier about the EQXX concept and
MB producing a production version but they have just scrapped that platform due to poor sales on their EQ line so looks like no 600 mile range EVs on the horizon anytime soon - https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/mercedes...
Regarding diesels becoming unfashionable, I couldn't give a toss as fashion isn't high on my criteria for a utility vehicle. There are also NK Ulez zones that charge for Euro 6 diesels and none are planned soon as far as I'm aware. Even if they did they're unlikely to cover the local building merchants, windsurfing spots, or alpine resorts, mountain bike trails etc so they'll have absolutely no effect as urban centres are the last places you'll find me driving any type of car.
It's also a great idea to buy a halo petrol car, hop over to the McLaren forum and you'll get lots of good advice as they offer the best bang for buck in terms of the special feeling.
The comments about diesel future values likely starting to drop: Sure, you don't use yours in places which are likely to have ulez restrictions anytime soon if ever, but that makes no difference in terms of the trend of used diesel prices does it? If generally diesels become more expensive to run, which is entirely possible, then all diesel car values will drop to an extent.
Why exactly is the merc 600 mile range thing so important to you? What is the benefit of 600 miles range? What journey would you do that needs that much range and has no chargers along such a distance?
blueg33 said:
Unfortunately in Devon I cannot install a charger (its to do with the capacity of the infrastructure),
Interestingly, a friend of mine was recounting a tale where a couple of people in the village where his son-in-law lives (rural North Yorkshire) have been told they can't have a wall box installed because the local infrastructure is at capacity. I've no reason to believe either he or his son-in-law are lying so if true it would be interesting to know potentially how many homes this affects nationally; there's often an assumption anyone with off-street parking can have a wall box and fast charger installed but maybe that's not necessarily the case?Of course slow charging via a 3-pin plug would still be an option but that's probably only practical for those doing a relatively low daily mileage - it's not really any good for those who want to plug in overnight so their car's fully charged and ready to go the following morning....
JNW1 said:
blueg33 said:
Unfortunately in Devon I cannot install a charger (its to do with the capacity of the infrastructure),
Interestingly, a friend of mine was recounting a tale where a couple of people in the village where his son-in-law lives (rural North Yorkshire) have been told they can't have a wall box installed because the local infrastructure is at capacity. I've no reason to believe either he or his son-in-law are lying so if true it would be interesting to know potentially how many homes this affects nationally; there's often an assumption anyone with off-street parking can have a wall box and fast charger installed but maybe that's not necessarily the case?Of course slow charging via a 3-pin plug would still be an option but that's probably only practical for those doing a relatively low daily mileage - it's not really any good for those who want to plug in overnight so their car's fully charged and ready to go the following morning....
You get about a 7 miles per hour range added, so if you plug in at 6pm and unplug at 8am you're adding 100 miles a day. Most drivers, most days, do nothing like that mileage so after a few days of normal use the car will be at 100% (or whatever you choose to charge to) every morning.
And of course, in a pinch there's always a rapid charger somewhere close by these days.
I think if you like where you live then it's perfectly doable and won't really be a barrier to anyone getting an EV - although for many I expect it'll be another excuse to add to the list!
JNW1 said:
blueg33 said:
Unfortunately in Devon I cannot install a charger (its to do with the capacity of the infrastructure),
Interestingly, a friend of mine was recounting a tale where a couple of people in the village where his son-in-law lives (rural North Yorkshire) have been told they can't have a wall box installed because the local infrastructure is at capacity. I've no reason to believe either he or his son-in-law are lying so if true it would be interesting to know potentially how many homes this affects nationally; there's often an assumption anyone with off-street parking can have a wall box and fast charger installed but maybe that's not necessarily the case?Of course slow charging via a 3-pin plug would still be an option but that's probably only practical for those doing a relatively low daily mileage - it's not really any good for those who want to plug in overnight so their car's fully charged and ready to go the following morning....
GT9 said:
Yeah, you guys are born and bred with a custodian mindset.
Here in the UK we are more the pillage and plunder types, been in our blood for thousands of years.
Problem is, when the shoe's on the other foot, the toys get thrown.
Some of your neighbours tried to pillage and plunder us a while back and we took great exception to that.
A bit like my Somerset-born maternal grandfather who was injured on the Somme at age 17? I am a dual Swiss-British citizen, was born in the UK and spent my first 33 years living and working in SE England, so not quite sure where the idea of a ‘custodian mindset’ comes from Here in the UK we are more the pillage and plunder types, been in our blood for thousands of years.
Problem is, when the shoe's on the other foot, the toys get thrown.
Some of your neighbours tried to pillage and plunder us a while back and we took great exception to that.
TheDeuce said:
JNW1 said:
blueg33 said:
Unfortunately in Devon I cannot install a charger (its to do with the capacity of the infrastructure),
Interestingly, a friend of mine was recounting a tale where a couple of people in the village where his son-in-law lives (rural North Yorkshire) have been told they can't have a wall box installed because the local infrastructure is at capacity. I've no reason to believe either he or his son-in-law are lying so if true it would be interesting to know potentially how many homes this affects nationally; there's often an assumption anyone with off-street parking can have a wall box and fast charger installed but maybe that's not necessarily the case?Of course slow charging via a 3-pin plug would still be an option but that's probably only practical for those doing a relatively low daily mileage - it's not really any good for those who want to plug in overnight so their car's fully charged and ready to go the following morning....
You get about a 7 miles per hour range added, so if you plug in at 6pm and unplug at 8am you're adding 100 miles a day. Most drivers, most days, do nothing like that mileage so after a few days of normal use the car will be at 100% (or whatever you choose to charge to) every morning.
And of course, in a pinch there's always a rapid charger somewhere close by these days.
I think if you like where you live then it's perfectly doable and won't really be a barrier to anyone getting an EV - although for many I expect it'll be another excuse to add to the list!
And of course those in rural locations often have to travel further to get to places of work and don't (yet) necessarily have rapid chargers on their doorstep either. Each to their own but in that situation I wouldn't buy an EV unless I had the facility to fast charge it at home....
JNW1 said:
I take your point and can see how a 3-pin charger could still work for some people (e.g. those who do a relatively low mileage and have a mileage profile which is relatively consistent week to week). However, not everyone does a similar mileage every day; some people have days when they do very little but then two or three days in a row where they're out and about and actually cover more than 100 miles each day - in that scenario I think relying on a granny charger would be a pain.
And of course those in rural locations often have to travel further to get to places of work and don't (yet) necessarily have rapid chargers on their doorstep either. Each to their own but in that situation I wouldn't buy an EV unless I had the facility to fast charge it at home....
EV with 200 mile range, charged to close to full could do several consecutive days of 100m+ trips if it was charged overnight each time. I think very few people actually drive far enough on consecutive days for it to not be enough, and then even less of those people live in a house where they can't fit a charger..And of course those in rural locations often have to travel further to get to places of work and don't (yet) necessarily have rapid chargers on their doorstep either. Each to their own but in that situation I wouldn't buy an EV unless I had the facility to fast charge it at home....
Tbh when I ordered my first EV I got a proper charger fitted straight away as I just wanted to know I can charge 0-100% overnight anytime, and I wouldn't have listened to anyone who said I didn't need that. And it is useful.. but... The truth is I now know I could make a granny charger work too
So I'm not saying it's ideal but it wouldn't be a barrier, other than a mental one perhaps.
TheDeuce said:
It's obviously not as convenient if you need to get from nearly 0% to 100% charge in a single hit, but actually a 3 pin granny charger will keep an EV topped up even for those doing 20-30k a year, with relative ease.
You get about a 7 miles per hour range added, so if you plug in at 6pm and unplug at 8am you're adding 100 miles a day. Most drivers, most days, do nothing like that mileage so after a few days of normal use the car will be at 100% (or whatever you choose to charge to) every morning.
And of course, in a pinch there's always a rapid charger somewhere close by these days.
I think if you like where you live then it's perfectly doable and won't really be a barrier to anyone getting an EV - although for many I expect it'll be another excuse to add to the list!
5+ years, 4 different EV's and 50k+ miles covered with a 3-pin here. Charges between midnight and 7am and we've rarely had a morning where the car isn't at the optimum 80% charge state.You get about a 7 miles per hour range added, so if you plug in at 6pm and unplug at 8am you're adding 100 miles a day. Most drivers, most days, do nothing like that mileage so after a few days of normal use the car will be at 100% (or whatever you choose to charge to) every morning.
And of course, in a pinch there's always a rapid charger somewhere close by these days.
I think if you like where you live then it's perfectly doable and won't really be a barrier to anyone getting an EV - although for many I expect it'll be another excuse to add to the list!
Saw no point in fitting a 7kW charger as a bit of an eyesore, expensive for us due to additional work required, and we just don't need it.
SWoll said:
TheDeuce said:
It's obviously not as convenient if you need to get from nearly 0% to 100% charge in a single hit, but actually a 3 pin granny charger will keep an EV topped up even for those doing 20-30k a year, with relative ease.
You get about a 7 miles per hour range added, so if you plug in at 6pm and unplug at 8am you're adding 100 miles a day. Most drivers, most days, do nothing like that mileage so after a few days of normal use the car will be at 100% (or whatever you choose to charge to) every morning.
And of course, in a pinch there's always a rapid charger somewhere close by these days.
I think if you like where you live then it's perfectly doable and won't really be a barrier to anyone getting an EV - although for many I expect it'll be another excuse to add to the list!
5+ years, 4 different EV's and 50k+ miles covered with a 3-pin here. Charges between midnight and 7am and we've rarely had a morning where the car isn't at the optimum 80% charge state.You get about a 7 miles per hour range added, so if you plug in at 6pm and unplug at 8am you're adding 100 miles a day. Most drivers, most days, do nothing like that mileage so after a few days of normal use the car will be at 100% (or whatever you choose to charge to) every morning.
And of course, in a pinch there's always a rapid charger somewhere close by these days.
I think if you like where you live then it's perfectly doable and won't really be a barrier to anyone getting an EV - although for many I expect it'll be another excuse to add to the list!
Saw no point in fitting a 7kW charger as a bit of an eyesore, expensive for us due to additional work required, and we just don't need it.
Like I said, I'm glad I've got a 7kw 'proper' charger, but simple maths tells me I could get by without it. I'd just plug the car in every night instead of once or twice a week. I suppose that means I would spend 70 seconds a week charging my car rather than 10 seconds though...
Michael_B said:
A bit like my Somerset-born maternal grandfather who was injured on the Somme at age 17? I am a dual Swiss-British citizen, was born in the UK and spent my first 33 years living and working in SE England, so not quite sure where the idea of a ‘custodian mindset’ comes from
Just a bit of satire for a quiet Monday evening. No offence intended of course.
Kudos to you grandfather.
essayer said:
IIRC the DNO can’t stop you installing a charger IF the maximum demand of the property won’t exceed 60A. A 3.6kW charger might work
That's what I was thinking - they can't stop you purchasing/installing/running a tumble dryer, power shower,electric oven etc, so how could they stop anyone using a fast charger, as long as the total power draw of the
property at any given time is well within the capacity of your master fuse?
If you were in that situation, you'd just have to be careful not to have multiple high current appliances running
while you were using the car charger.
PBCD said:
essayer said:
IIRC the DNO can’t stop you installing a charger IF the maximum demand of the property won’t exceed 60A. A 3.6kW charger might work
That's what I was thinking - they can't stop you purchasing/installing/running a tumble dryer, power shower,electric oven etc, so how could they stop anyone using a fast charger, as long as the total power draw of the
property at any given time is well within the capacity of your master fuse?
If you were in that situation, you'd just have to be careful not to have multiple high current appliances running
while you were using the car charger.
But... Install a 32a external commando socket, that's not notifiable. Then plug one of these in: https://thirdrockenergy.co.uk/products/type-2-to-c... and you have a 7kw charger.
Obviously you still have to ensure you don't exceed the rated limit of your home supply and fuse, or at least, not very much and not continuously.
TheDeuce said:
Installing one is notfiable work, the DNO could object and prevent the installation pending their own review.
But... Install a 32a external commando socket, that's not notifiable. Then plug one of these in: https://thirdrockenergy.co.uk/products/type-2-to-c... and you have a 7kw charger.
Obviously you still have to ensure you don't exceed the rated limit of your home supply and fuse, or at least, not very much and not continuously.
Who says installing a charger is notifiable work? Not aware that installing anything within the rating of your main fuse is notifiable or anyones business but your own.But... Install a 32a external commando socket, that's not notifiable. Then plug one of these in: https://thirdrockenergy.co.uk/products/type-2-to-c... and you have a 7kw charger.
Obviously you still have to ensure you don't exceed the rated limit of your home supply and fuse, or at least, not very much and not continuously.
JNW1 said:
I take your point and can see how a 3-pin charger could still work for some people (e.g. those who do a relatively low mileage and have a mileage profile which is relatively consistent week to week). However, not everyone does a similar mileage every day; some people have days when they do very little but then two or three days in a row where they're out and about and actually cover more than 100 miles each day - in that scenario I think relying on a granny charger would be a pain.
And of course those in rural locations often have to travel further to get to places of work and don't (yet) necessarily have rapid chargers on their doorstep either. Each to their own but in that situation I wouldn't buy an EV unless I had the facility to fast charge it at home....
100 miles of range for a day definitely wouldn't work for me. Yes the rural location is a factor, both places I have are rural.And of course those in rural locations often have to travel further to get to places of work and don't (yet) necessarily have rapid chargers on their doorstep either. Each to their own but in that situation I wouldn't buy an EV unless I had the facility to fast charge it at home....
GT9 said:
Just a bit of satire for a quiet Monday evening.
No offence intended of course.
Kudos to you grandfather.
After posting I did wonder if I was due a parrot... and on a point of order, the Swiss are no stranger to conflict and used to be quite renowned for their military prowess, especially as mercenaries. After all, they're still good enough to guard the Pope No offence intended of course.
Kudos to you grandfather.
essayer said:
It’s notifiable as it’s a new circuit (hopefully!) but also DNO needs to permit in some - not all - situations
MD=max demand
Or as above, install an outside 32A commando socket for your welder/caravan/boat.
Exactly,thanks.MD=max demand
Or as above, install an outside 32A commando socket for your welder/caravan/boat.
The beauty of simply installing a new socket is that it's not notifiable and absolutely no one else's business what's plugged into it - once you have the socket installed and tested, it's appropriate to plug into it any equipment that has a matching, fitted plug type and is designed to meet UK standards.
I would however discourage DIY fitting of the socket in this instance, because you really do want a spark to carry out a proper health check on the circuit ahead of you drawing a continuous ~30a through it. And it's not normally going to be expensive for a spark to do it anyway, it's a very basic job.
A final potential benefit is that if you can't get the socket installed at reasonable cost near where the car is parked, a standard ceefirm 1ph 32a extension lead is cheap as chips.
essayer said:
It’s notifiable as it’s a new circuit (hopefully!) but also DNO needs to permit in some - not all - situations
MD=max demand
Or as above, install an outside 32A commando socket for your welder/caravan/boat.
We have an 80A fuse which was upgraded from its original 60A. Electrician didn't seem concerned at all, he certainly didn't obtain permission.MD=max demand
Or as above, install an outside 32A commando socket for your welder/caravan/boat.
Is it policed? I would doubt it. We have a 9.5kw electric shower which I assume nobody asked permission for either.
With the 7.5kw charger and 9.5kw shower on at the same time, we would be at probably 70a total without the load from the rest of the house.
Unlikely we will have both shower and EV charger on at the same time as we charger overnight
Edited by Wagonwheel555 on Tuesday 21st May 08:29
blueg33 said:
JNW1 said:
I take your point and can see how a 3-pin charger could still work for some people (e.g. those who do a relatively low mileage and have a mileage profile which is relatively consistent week to week). However, not everyone does a similar mileage every day; some people have days when they do very little but then two or three days in a row where they're out and about and actually cover more than 100 miles each day - in that scenario I think relying on a granny charger would be a pain.
And of course those in rural locations often have to travel further to get to places of work and don't (yet) necessarily have rapid chargers on their doorstep either. Each to their own but in that situation I wouldn't buy an EV unless I had the facility to fast charge it at home....
100 miles of range for a day definitely wouldn't work for me. Yes the rural location is a factor, both places I have are rural.And of course those in rural locations often have to travel further to get to places of work and don't (yet) necessarily have rapid chargers on their doorstep either. Each to their own but in that situation I wouldn't buy an EV unless I had the facility to fast charge it at home....
What is your annual mileage and frequency of trips longer than 100 miles?
Or as per above - just get a 7kw fast charger fitted, one way or the other, if you really need it..
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