Black intercoolers

Black intercoolers

Author
Discussion

chuntington101

5,733 posts

237 months

Friday 20th June 2014
quotequote all
Chapppers said:
0) engineer the cooling channels and aero properly to start with?

ooooh.
Read my second point - Get more air to / from the intercooler! smile

Chapppers

Original Poster:

4,483 posts

192 months

Saturday 21st June 2014
quotequote all
I said start with, as in when the car was designed.

chuntington101

5,733 posts

237 months

Monday 23rd June 2014
quotequote all
Chapppers said:
I said start with, as in when the car was designed.
Ahhhh yes that would be the best solution. Guess that leads to the questions, where SHOULD Noble have mounted the intercooler(s)?

andygtt

8,345 posts

265 months

Monday 23rd June 2014
quotequote all
It was designed to have flow from the outset, it's just it wasn't the designers expert area and it wasn't quite right.

With relatively minor tweets the intercooler is effective in its current location so my personal view for the standard car he got it right, just didn't ' refine' it fully.

chuntington101

5,733 posts

237 months

Monday 23rd June 2014
quotequote all
andygtt said:
It was designed to have flow from the outset, it's just it wasn't the designers expert area and it wasn't quite right.

With relatively minor tweets the intercooler is effective in its current location so my personal view for the standard car he got it right, just didn't ' refine' it fully.
Andy, do you feel that your location for the intercooler is better than say dual coolers in or near the side pods like the racer did?

andygtt

8,345 posts

265 months

Monday 23rd June 2014
quotequote all
chuntington101 said:
andygtt said:
It was designed to have flow from the outset, it's just it wasn't the designers expert area and it wasn't quite right.

With relatively minor tweets the intercooler is effective in its current location so my personal view for the standard car he got it right, just didn't ' refine' it fully.
Andy, do you feel that your location for the intercooler is better than say dual coolers in or near the side pods like the racer did?
On my noble absolutely. I personally don't like to look of side scoops on the noble and the larger ones I like even less... Plus my telemetry shows I have charge temperatures more than adequately controlled.... Plus all the plumbing to do so with my single turbo would create lag and reduce throttle response.
I also changed the intercooler box so heat from the turbo travels away form the intercooler... Simple but extremely effective change for me.

On my other car the inter coolers are going in the side pods, but the car is designed from the offset for them to go there, plus it's twin turbo and is logitudal mounted engine.

Packaging and length of pipe work is as big a factor as intercooler efficiency...

chuntington101

5,733 posts

237 months

Tuesday 24th June 2014
quotequote all
andygtt said:
chuntington101 said:
andygtt said:
It was designed to have flow from the outset, it's just it wasn't the designers expert area and it wasn't quite right.

With relatively minor tweets the intercooler is effective in its current location so my personal view for the standard car he got it right, just didn't ' refine' it fully.
Andy, do you feel that your location for the intercooler is better than say dual coolers in or near the side pods like the racer did?
On my noble absolutely. I personally don't like to look of side scoops on the noble and the larger ones I like even less... Plus my telemetry shows I have charge temperatures more than adequately controlled.... Plus all the plumbing to do so with my single turbo would create lag and reduce throttle response.
I also changed the intercooler box so heat from the turbo travels away form the intercooler... Simple but extremely effective change for me.

On my other car the inter coolers are going in the side pods, but the car is designed from the offset for them to go there, plus it's twin turbo and is logitudal mounted engine.

Packaging and length of pipe work is as big a factor as intercooler efficiency...
Andy, what about the twin intercoolers used on the orange soft top m12 that someone did? They used air fed from about the rear wheels to the coolers and vented around the rear lights. Looks like they used some decent sized intercoolers with lots of nice airflow. What's your thoughts?

Lookalike with a little work you could even run the middle mounted intercooler for supercooling! Lol

http://m.news24.com/wheels24/News/Custom_Cars/Sali...

andygtt

8,345 posts

265 months

Tuesday 24th June 2014
quotequote all
My GTT has twin inter coolers one for each turbo so i of cause think the logic is sound.... But my noble is a single turbo so this wouldn't be as efficient in my car :-)


chuntington101

5,733 posts

237 months

Tuesday 24th June 2014
quotequote all
What about a twin turbo car though? The pipe work can't be that much further and plenty of airflow off the wheel archers and with some scoops.

Also wasn't someone on here looking to do intercoolers like the race car?....

andygtt

8,345 posts

265 months

Wednesday 25th June 2014
quotequote all
Well I'd say having them in the wheel arch wouldn't be a bad idea, I mean the ideal is to have less airflow through the wheel well to reduce drag and lift rather than to encourage more... Conflicting interests IMO.

Plus the turbos are not on either side of the car but front rear thus I think the single intercooler would still be better.

Saying that I've seen proper telemetry from twin turbo 600+ car on track with the pro alloy in stock place and it didn't have an issue with inlet air temps, so why change when refinement is all that's needed?

Adrian W

14,002 posts

229 months

Wednesday 25th June 2014
quotequote all
surely the airflow is by far the most important part of the intercooler, look up something like Newtons law of cooling.

it is obvious that when the intercooler is acting as a heatsink (no airflow) it will work a bit better, but only until it soaks out

If you want it to work better increase the surface area.


Edited by Adrian W on Wednesday 25th June 09:06

chuntington101

5,733 posts

237 months

Wednesday 25th June 2014
quotequote all
Adrian W said:
surely the airflow is by far the most important part of the intercooler, look up something like Newtons law of cooling.

it is obvious that when the intercooler is acting as a heatsink (no airflow) it will work a bit better, but only until it soaks out

If you want it to work better increase the surface area.


Edited by Adrian W on Wednesday 25th June 09:06
But is it just about getting air to the intercooler or what actually happens to the air? For example ww2 air cooled fighters found it was beneficial to slow the air down as it went over the cylinder heads as they extracted more heat from the cylinders for less drag than with large opening and lots of airflow.

Also look at f1 radiators and intercoolers that are thin but massively lent over. I'm sure max mentioned on hear somewhere that you only need an open 40% the size of a radiator to provide sufficient airflow. If that's the case is airflow the real limiting factor in the noble or is it the intercooler?

From andy's comments above it looks like the noble is more intercooler restricted than airflow!

Not saying improving both won't help though! smile

Adrian W

14,002 posts

229 months

Wednesday 25th June 2014
quotequote all
chuntington101 said:
But is it just about getting air to the intercooler or what actually happens to the air? For example ww2 air cooled fighters found it was beneficial to slow the air down as it went over the cylinder heads as they extracted more heat from the cylinders for less drag than with large opening and lots of airflow.

Also look at f1 radiators and intercoolers that are thin but massively lent over. I'm sure max mentioned on hear somewhere that you only need an open 40% the size of a radiator to provide sufficient airflow. If that's the case is airflow the real limiting factor in the noble or is it the intercooler?

From andy's comments above it looks like the noble is more intercooler restricted than airflow!

Not saying improving both won't help though! smile
My guess is that if it gets to big the pressure drop when the air cooled would be intolerable

andygtt

8,345 posts

265 months

Wednesday 25th June 2014
quotequote all
My intercooler is a lot larger than the pro alloy one, plus I believe I have a lot more air flowing through due to the body mods I've done (the fastback and the rear grill area)... But I genuinely don't think the stock body with the pro alloy intercooler needs a redesign as it's proven tweets get it under control IMO.

The biggest mistake people make is forgetting to open the intercooler exit area.... It's why I recessed the number plate so I could permanently relocate it legally lol... I also don't run a grill at all at the rear.

chuntington101

5,733 posts

237 months

Wednesday 25th June 2014
quotequote all
Adrian W said:
chuntington101 said:
But is it just about getting air to the intercooler or what actually happens to the air? For example ww2 air cooled fighters found it was beneficial to slow the air down as it went over the cylinder heads as they extracted more heat from the cylinders for less drag than with large opening and lots of airflow.

Also look at f1 radiators and intercoolers that are thin but massively lent over. I'm sure max mentioned on hear somewhere that you only need an open 40% the size of a radiator to provide sufficient airflow. If that's the case is airflow the real limiting factor in the noble or is it the intercooler?

From andy's comments above it looks like the noble is more intercooler restricted than airflow!

Not saying improving both won't help though! smile
My guess is that if it gets to big the pressure drop when the air cooled would be intolerable
Could you please confirm what you mean? The pressurised air in the intercooler should see less of a pressure drop with a larger core. Do you mean the ambient air? In which case that will be heated up as the air goes through the intercooler...

CaptainJp

670 posts

219 months

Saturday 28th June 2014
quotequote all
Answer from Mclaren

An interesting question, and fairly straight forward to answer: the choice of surface coating/colour depends on the installation. If there are other surrounding hot bodies that will radiate significant heat to the intercooler, then you want a highly reflective surface to minimise heating from infra-red radiation. If no other surrounding hot bodies, then you want a coating/colour that has a high emissivity when at a temp of around 100degs to maximise radiation heat loss from the cooler. Most non-reflective paints, of any colour, have such a property and of a similar value at this temp, so black, or white, (or green!) will do in this case. Hope that helps smile

Chapppers

Original Poster:

4,483 posts

192 months

Saturday 28th June 2014
quotequote all
so their findings are valid for their experimental setup, but not for any real life applications hehe

JW027

407 posts

141 months

Saturday 28th June 2014
quotequote all
JP this is a fabulous answer and makes complete sense. Thanks for asking and posting!

chuntington101

5,733 posts

237 months

Sunday 29th June 2014
quotequote all
That's very interesting. Wonder why OEMs don't do it...

F.C.

3,897 posts

209 months

Monday 30th June 2014
quotequote all
chuntington101 said:
That's very interesting. Wonder why OEMs don't do it...
Just a stab in the dark but there are probably other surrounding hot bodies that will radiate significant heat to the intercooler.