My sort of broken W221 S600
Discussion
Been after an S600 for ages, but it needed to be cheap. I got one but obviously you get what you pay for and it has a few issues. This thread will be me trying to fix those issues and burning a little super unleaded along the way.
Spotted the car on eBay and over the months watched the price drop and drop and drop. I contacted the guy and did a deal at £3800. One way train ticket and a 200 mile ish drive back what could go wrong? Everything and nothing. Loads of random warning lights speedo flickering steering hardening up at low speed but apart from that it drove really well.
So the saga begins.
Spotted the car on eBay and over the months watched the price drop and drop and drop. I contacted the guy and did a deal at £3800. One way train ticket and a 200 mile ish drive back what could go wrong? Everything and nothing. Loads of random warning lights speedo flickering steering hardening up at low speed but apart from that it drove really well.
So the saga begins.
After some hints and tips from the kind folks over on the 1-5k smoker barge thread me and my mechanic tried a few simple free things. The drains under the bonnet were completely full of leaves and soil. Water was making its way through the firewall through the cabin filters and under the carpet on the passenger side.
There’s a couple of ecu’s under there that seemed unharmed but a couple of earth points had been affected. We hoped this was the issue with the weird electronics. After cleaning up the earth points and resetting on the diagnostics everything seemed to be alright. I’ve left the carpet up to allow everything to dry out but it should be the end of the water getting in for now.
A couple of drives and restarts later the traction/abs/parking sensor warnings are back along with the power steering being heavy.
I’m getting codes for all the abs/speed sensors but with live data they are all working well. Getting 14v when charging and both battery’s on the car were changed a few months ago with genuine Mercedes ones. (They had already been replaced twice before in the last couple of years so obviously a long term problem)
Also getting an Eml and engine misfire, the voltage transformer has been replaced within the last couple of months but not the coils so that will need doing.
There’s a couple of ecu’s under there that seemed unharmed but a couple of earth points had been affected. We hoped this was the issue with the weird electronics. After cleaning up the earth points and resetting on the diagnostics everything seemed to be alright. I’ve left the carpet up to allow everything to dry out but it should be the end of the water getting in for now.
A couple of drives and restarts later the traction/abs/parking sensor warnings are back along with the power steering being heavy.
I’m getting codes for all the abs/speed sensors but with live data they are all working well. Getting 14v when charging and both battery’s on the car were changed a few months ago with genuine Mercedes ones. (They had already been replaced twice before in the last couple of years so obviously a long term problem)
Also getting an Eml and engine misfire, the voltage transformer has been replaced within the last couple of months but not the coils so that will need doing.
ChocolateFrog said:
Good luck.
The insistence of putting sensitive electronics in the footwell is moronic, almost anywhere else would be preferable.
I've also got an irrational hatred of those chrome numberplate surrounds, probably not a priority until the electrical issues are sorted out.
That is the second most important job to carry out, I removed the AMG badge from the boot first :-)The insistence of putting sensitive electronics in the footwell is moronic, almost anywhere else would be preferable.
I've also got an irrational hatred of those chrome numberplate surrounds, probably not a priority until the electrical issues are sorted out.
rocket_ron said:
I replied on the smokers thread about the drains: glad it might have helped (even if its just preventative).
About the heavy steering / abs warnings: I've had that. Also warnings about cruise etc. Sometimes it would be fine - others not, worse when hot / cold. First time was due to rust inside the rear offside hubcarrier getting between the abs sender ring (the ring of magnets basically) and the sensor. Removing the driveshaft was a pain: but it turned out that corrosion under the sender ring had been fractured it and it was just about held in place by the surrounding rust! Rust stuck to everything magnetic. £10 part: 10 hours of labour. I diagnosed it myself (endoscope down the abs sensor hole).
2nd time was the same on the nearside. Took about 5 hours this time.
I'm not saying that's the issue here: but it might give a clue / starting point.
Excellent another great bit of advice, I'll check my ring :-)About the heavy steering / abs warnings: I've had that. Also warnings about cruise etc. Sometimes it would be fine - others not, worse when hot / cold. First time was due to rust inside the rear offside hubcarrier getting between the abs sender ring (the ring of magnets basically) and the sensor. Removing the driveshaft was a pain: but it turned out that corrosion under the sender ring had been fractured it and it was just about held in place by the surrounding rust! Rust stuck to everything magnetic. £10 part: 10 hours of labour. I diagnosed it myself (endoscope down the abs sensor hole).
2nd time was the same on the nearside. Took about 5 hours this time.
I'm not saying that's the issue here: but it might give a clue / starting point.
- Edit: forgot to say - the steering response / feel varies with the cars speed and you normally dont notice it. But when the car isnt sure what speed it is doing - it seems to default to the 'heaviest' setting.
Edited by rocket_ron on Friday 19th April 11:37
TopTrump said:
Wow you are a brave man. I had a 320 cdi and it was the biggest pile of garbage car I have even owned. Everything went wrong, it cost a bomb every time to put right and couldn't see the back of it soon enough.
Huge testees required. Well done sir!
My last car was the 320cdi version and to be fair very little went wrong with it, but if I'm going to waste time and money fixing one it might as well be the best one.Huge testees required. Well done sir!
Misfire is showing at only one cylinder (cylinder 7) so we are changing the plugs there’s only 24 of them :-) then will inevitably end up ordering the coil/s when that doesn’t solve it. It’s already had the voltage regulator replaced a couple of months ago.
The spark plugs haven’t been done since 2012 but only 30k ago.
The weird electrical issues have not gone away they come and go but all the codes relate to the ABS pump I believe so will get one of those ordered and banged in. Still love it at the moment but let’s see how long that lasts.
The spark plugs haven’t been done since 2012 but only 30k ago.
The weird electrical issues have not gone away they come and go but all the codes relate to the ABS pump I believe so will get one of those ordered and banged in. Still love it at the moment but let’s see how long that lasts.
Alex_225 said:
It's a big car but I'm surprised you can fit your gonads in there because they must be significant buying an S600 for this price!! haha
Fair play though, I had an S320cdi as a daily car for a couple of years and it was an absolutely lovely car. That said, I paid about £7k for it and claimed probably £3,500-4k within the first 6 months on the warranty with the garage.
As for your ABS warnings, it'll be the wheel speed sensors. I had all four replaced on my S Class, all four were done before my ownership on my CL and we've done two of the four on my other half's ML. Seems that era of Merc, the sensors are just utter crap.
If you can get things behaving on yours though that'll be a hell of a car. I've always fancied the 600 models and had pondered whether I'd eventually sell my CL500 for a CL600. Also if you're interested, I run a FB group 'Mercedes S-Class and CL-Class Owners UK' which has some knowledgeable types on there and they'd love to see progress on this.
I'll keep an eye on this thread.
Interesting point on the speed sensors, I thought they were ok as when I look at live data on the diagnostics they are all displaying speeds in line with what you would expect. Fair play though, I had an S320cdi as a daily car for a couple of years and it was an absolutely lovely car. That said, I paid about £7k for it and claimed probably £3,500-4k within the first 6 months on the warranty with the garage.
As for your ABS warnings, it'll be the wheel speed sensors. I had all four replaced on my S Class, all four were done before my ownership on my CL and we've done two of the four on my other half's ML. Seems that era of Merc, the sensors are just utter crap.
If you can get things behaving on yours though that'll be a hell of a car. I've always fancied the 600 models and had pondered whether I'd eventually sell my CL500 for a CL600. Also if you're interested, I run a FB group 'Mercedes S-Class and CL-Class Owners UK' which has some knowledgeable types on there and they'd love to see progress on this.
I'll keep an eye on this thread.
As far as bravery/gonads etc I’m probably not as brave as you think. I run a Mercedes breakers so this car is a sort of no lose bet. I’d much rather keep it but if all else fails it’ll end up stripped.
Can you help with my shopping list?Alex_225 said:
Mikedknight said:
Interesting point on the speed sensors, I thought they were ok as when I look at live data on the diagnostics they are all displaying speeds in line with what you would expect.
As far as bravery/gonads etc I’m probably not as brave as you think. I run a Mercedes breakers so this car is a sort of no lose bet. I’d much rather keep it but if all else fails it’ll end up stripped.
In that case I retract the reference to your plums haha Fair play though, if you can get parts easy enough and clearly you know your way round mechanically then fair play. A friend of mine also breaks cars for a living and will have a go at fixing most things before breaking if it's a nice car. As far as bravery/gonads etc I’m probably not as brave as you think. I run a Mercedes breakers so this car is a sort of no lose bet. I’d much rather keep it but if all else fails it’ll end up stripped.
As for the speed sensors, obviously I can't say for certain but I just know from my experience it threw that kind of error but no physical symptoms where as my other half's ML the brake would grab at low speeds due to one of the sensors being iffy.
Misfire update. It still has one. It was only misfiring on one cylinder (cyl 7) so thought I’d do the spark plugs. The last time they’d been done was in 2012 30k ago.
Replaced them all with 24 NGK iridium’s which didn’t fix the issue so I’ve ordered the left coil pack. On further reading of the service history it turned out the spark plugs had been changed last year less than 1000 miles ago! Doh
A picture of my workbench and some spark plugs.
Replaced them all with 24 NGK iridium’s which didn’t fix the issue so I’ve ordered the left coil pack. On further reading of the service history it turned out the spark plugs had been changed last year less than 1000 miles ago! Doh
A picture of my workbench and some spark plugs.
Good news on the 320cdi, I also have a 320cdi that is full of soil in the same place.
On to the 600 replaced the left coil pack and all was well until the EML lit up again. This time the codes are banging on about the voltage transformer but weirdly the live data isn’t showing any misfires.
I guess I need to buy a voltage transformer too. I’m not touching it for a couple of weeks now but I’ll report back my findings.
On to the 600 replaced the left coil pack and all was well until the EML lit up again. This time the codes are banging on about the voltage transformer but weirdly the live data isn’t showing any misfires.
I guess I need to buy a voltage transformer too. I’m not touching it for a couple of weeks now but I’ll report back my findings.
This cars faults have taken a sort of funny turn. The abs traction heavy steering fault comes and goes. But I had a new and exciting fault yesterday. Waiting in traffic individual suspension struts started raising on their own in the most aggressive style. Sort of like one of those LA lowriders. Accompanied by an ABC fault message on the screen. Did it for maybe 30 seconds and then stopped again.
So many weird problems with this car, anyone got any ideas? Some kind of earth fault? Dodgy alternator? Sam unit? At times it drives completely perfectly with no errors and everything working.
So many weird problems with this car, anyone got any ideas? Some kind of earth fault? Dodgy alternator? Sam unit? At times it drives completely perfectly with no errors and everything working.
Good idea re the dehumidifier. I’ve pulled the carpet and it’s bone dry underneath. I cleared all the codes on the car and took it out for a drive. I drove very sedately for about an hour and a half. No warning lights or any other electrical issues.
I wonder if the electrical issues only occur when the car uses the second bank of cylinders/coil pack?
Would it be possible that the voltage transformer is sending out spikes of electricity and messing with various systems? The faults are so random.
I wonder if the electrical issues only occur when the car uses the second bank of cylinders/coil pack?
Would it be possible that the voltage transformer is sending out spikes of electricity and messing with various systems? The faults are so random.
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