Another Porsche Boxster engine failure..
Discussion
I know everyone knows this, but I think the point is worth making anyway.
Generally it is (or should be) expected that if you buy an older car then substantuially higher maintenance costs could be a reality. I have owned a 964 for almost 8 years, and if it had been standard still, I am guessing I would have lost around £2K in depreciation in that time. In maintenance though, I may well have spent in excess of £10K - it is hard to tell exactly as I have also modified the car substantially. If I had purchased a new 996 with warranty 8 years ago, I am guessing that I would have paid around £65K, plus 6 years of warranty potentially - and I would now be selling it for £20K for example......so a net loss of approx £45K to £12K or so for the 964.
This is obviously an extreme example, you can buy a used car and pay for warranty with some of the depreciation taken out - but total cost of ownership is what needs to be looked at.
How will I fare with the Mk1 GT3? Who knows - I suspect it will be better than most but then I had to part with more money in the first place than the OP did on his Boxster.....and the cost of repairing maintaining a GT3 is potentially far higher....
I guess the point I am trying to make is that the way we view cars and associated costs and so on has changed a lot even in the last 10 years - easy come, easy go (credit easy to come by, property invincible, depreciation...whats is that?).
I have always laughed at people who buy brand new cars and change every 3 years - their losses are indescribably high in real terms but the losses are more manageable because the costs are (to a large degree) fixed. As Boxsters reach low teens (and warranties are no longer available), I would recommend that anyone buying one puts away at least £250 per month to cover just maintenance. Any part of that that does not get used gets put aside. This is a minimum and if you can't afford it then you are at risk of some financial pain if something happens. I know this is obvious, but I was reminded of this when I consider my own vehicles. I also purchased a 10 year old BMW 540 with 40K miles 18 months ago. Would I expect zero maintenance going forward....????? I paid £4500 for the car - and paid £325 or so for a full Inspection II with some additional bits, and had to fork out around £300 to recondition the propshaft and refit but this is the least I would expect to pay (and all I have paid to date)....but if the engine blows up I would have to buy another car. This is reality (and the risk) - but the other option is to buy a new 540 (or today's equivalent) or new enough to apply a warranty for £1800 a year or whatever - and the costs of that would be far, far higher......
In between all the intellectual posturing in the thread - common sense should always be applied. In my view, the OP has the right approach by buying a cheap used vehicle (in relation to original purchase price)- he has just been very unlucky after potentially putting himself in a situation (i.e. owning a car) he cannot in reality afford. I have been there myself many years ago, and it is not a pleasant experience - but to the OP: please please do not make the mistake though after this situation of just buying new cars and changing every 3 years....that really would be a waste of money (unless you made a lot of money shorting the FTSE and taking long positions in oil - when it doesn't really matter of course
)
Thanks for reading if you made it this far....
Generally it is (or should be) expected that if you buy an older car then substantuially higher maintenance costs could be a reality. I have owned a 964 for almost 8 years, and if it had been standard still, I am guessing I would have lost around £2K in depreciation in that time. In maintenance though, I may well have spent in excess of £10K - it is hard to tell exactly as I have also modified the car substantially. If I had purchased a new 996 with warranty 8 years ago, I am guessing that I would have paid around £65K, plus 6 years of warranty potentially - and I would now be selling it for £20K for example......so a net loss of approx £45K to £12K or so for the 964.
This is obviously an extreme example, you can buy a used car and pay for warranty with some of the depreciation taken out - but total cost of ownership is what needs to be looked at.
How will I fare with the Mk1 GT3? Who knows - I suspect it will be better than most but then I had to part with more money in the first place than the OP did on his Boxster.....and the cost of repairing maintaining a GT3 is potentially far higher....
I guess the point I am trying to make is that the way we view cars and associated costs and so on has changed a lot even in the last 10 years - easy come, easy go (credit easy to come by, property invincible, depreciation...whats is that?).
I have always laughed at people who buy brand new cars and change every 3 years - their losses are indescribably high in real terms but the losses are more manageable because the costs are (to a large degree) fixed. As Boxsters reach low teens (and warranties are no longer available), I would recommend that anyone buying one puts away at least £250 per month to cover just maintenance. Any part of that that does not get used gets put aside. This is a minimum and if you can't afford it then you are at risk of some financial pain if something happens. I know this is obvious, but I was reminded of this when I consider my own vehicles. I also purchased a 10 year old BMW 540 with 40K miles 18 months ago. Would I expect zero maintenance going forward....????? I paid £4500 for the car - and paid £325 or so for a full Inspection II with some additional bits, and had to fork out around £300 to recondition the propshaft and refit but this is the least I would expect to pay (and all I have paid to date)....but if the engine blows up I would have to buy another car. This is reality (and the risk) - but the other option is to buy a new 540 (or today's equivalent) or new enough to apply a warranty for £1800 a year or whatever - and the costs of that would be far, far higher......
In between all the intellectual posturing in the thread - common sense should always be applied. In my view, the OP has the right approach by buying a cheap used vehicle (in relation to original purchase price)- he has just been very unlucky after potentially putting himself in a situation (i.e. owning a car) he cannot in reality afford. I have been there myself many years ago, and it is not a pleasant experience - but to the OP: please please do not make the mistake though after this situation of just buying new cars and changing every 3 years....that really would be a waste of money (unless you made a lot of money shorting the FTSE and taking long positions in oil - when it doesn't really matter of course
)Thanks for reading if you made it this far....
Back in April 2007...
Sorry to hear about your misfortune, OP, but Don did warn you..
Don said:
newboxsterS said:
What is the average cost for running a Boxster S for a year?
I reckon £1500. Some years it will be £200 for the service and £900 for the warranty. Some years you will add £1K for dics/pads. Discs and pads on mine lasted three years (and a LOT of track days!). If you said with the warranty the car would cost you £2K a year to run you would be absolutely safe. That's not cheap but there you go. If you service with a good independent and take a punt on the warranty you could run one a LOT cheaper - but if something big goes pop you'll take the hit to get it fixed.monthefish said:
Back in April 2007...
Sorry to hear about your misfortune, OP, but Don did warn you..
Case closed.Don said:
newboxsterS said:
What is the average cost for running a Boxster S for a year?
I reckon £1500. Some years it will be £200 for the service and £900 for the warranty. Some years you will add £1K for dics/pads. Discs and pads on mine lasted three years (and a LOT of track days!). If you said with the warranty the car would cost you £2K a year to run you would be absolutely safe. That's not cheap but there you go. If you service with a good independent and take a punt on the warranty you could run one a LOT cheaper - but if something big goes pop you'll take the hit to get it fixed.Very good point Christer, which is why - despite all the problems mentioned - on average an older Boxster or 996 could be a good buy right now if you intend to keep it for a few years - because the depreciation must be minimal, the chances of failure are small and the cost of fixing big problems is still much less than the alternative depreciation anyway (and even less with some form of maintenance/repair cover0.
Baz.
Baz.
hartech said:
Very good point Christer, which is why - despite all the problems mentioned - on average an older Boxster or 996 could be a good buy right now if you intend to keep it for a few years - because the depreciation must be minimal, the chances of failure are small and the cost of fixing big problems is still much less than the alternative depreciation anyway (and even less with some form of maintenance/repair cover0.
Baz.
So my 996 is not worthless after all.Baz.
Phew man.
monthefish said:
Back in April 2007...
Sorry to hear about your misfortune, OP, but Don did warn you..
Ha ha, busted! Don said:
newboxsterS said:
What is the average cost for running a Boxster S for a year?
I reckon £1500. Some years it will be £200 for the service and £900 for the warranty. Some years you will add £1K for dics/pads. Discs and pads on mine lasted three years (and a LOT of track days!). If you said with the warranty the car would cost you £2K a year to run you would be absolutely safe. That's not cheap but there you go. If you service with a good independent and take a punt on the warranty you could run one a LOT cheaper - but if something big goes pop you'll take the hit to get it fixed.
but let's keep the thread going because I'm sure our PH-er in Spain won't be able to stay away...I'll never understand this method of buying cars, bearing in mind I restore cars for a living, I go out and buy a car I really want, 9 times out of 10 it's quite old, personally 993 was my last favourite 911 (except gt3), and they fit quite well in to my budget, they certainly don't stretch me to the point of breaking, if I were to suffer a moment of madness though and buy a wet 911, say a very sexy 997 c2 cab, then I would be tempted to buy a warranty, why? Because quite simply the 30k or more the car would cost me would skint me, if the engine went big style I couldn't afford to go out and buy a new one, and bearing in mind I am in one hell of a better position than most because I have multiple cars and lots of storage space, if an engine does let go I can push the car to the back of the workshop till I find an engine.
The moral of this story is strangely the same sales technique used to sell warranties in the first place.......Can't afford the warranty? Then how are you going to afford the engine?
Now if you choose to take a gamble as do I with the older stuff I buy and drive, then you are doing just that, I look at the amount of money I save on a warranty and work on the theory if I can get 3-4 years use without a big bill I have at least broken even, but if I couldn't do the work myself through lack of facilities or knowledge there isn't a hope in hell I would do without a warranty, especially if the car in question has a bit of a reputation.
The moral of this story is strangely the same sales technique used to sell warranties in the first place.......Can't afford the warranty? Then how are you going to afford the engine?
Now if you choose to take a gamble as do I with the older stuff I buy and drive, then you are doing just that, I look at the amount of money I save on a warranty and work on the theory if I can get 3-4 years use without a big bill I have at least broken even, but if I couldn't do the work myself through lack of facilities or knowledge there isn't a hope in hell I would do without a warranty, especially if the car in question has a bit of a reputation.
Vesuvius 996 said:
hartech said:
Very good point Christer, which is why - despite all the problems mentioned - on average an older Boxster or 996 could be a good buy right now if you intend to keep it for a few years - because the depreciation must be minimal, the chances of failure are small and the cost of fixing big problems is still much less than the alternative depreciation anyway (and even less with some form of maintenance/repair cover0.
Baz.
So my 996 is not worthless after all.Baz.
Phew man.
wildoliver said:
The moral of this story is strangely the same sales technique used to sell warranties in the first place.......Can't afford the warranty? Then how are you going to afford the engine?
I know the open-deck head and dodgy intermediate shaft are well known 'sudden lunch danger points' on the M96 and M97 engines but TBH there is always a danger of a cambelt letting go before it's time etc. on any make. A friend of mine has his steering pump explode in a VW, and I've also read of the disintegrating gearboxes, propshafts etc of other cars. I've even had issues with Hondas. Type into Google; "<arbitrary make> problems" and you will see the true horror of modern car ownership
It is a gamble - as Soovy has pointed out you played it and lost.
Now you need to contact Hartech for the best way to fit it all back together, you will then have a strong new engine in your car for far less than buying another regular engine. Move forward and you will not be affected by this much, you will not scare Porsche: Plus the new 2008 (911) engine design does appear to be quite different so they may have designed out the problem for future cars - so they cannot do much more now...
fbrs said:
wildoliver said:
I restore cars for a living
cool. what kind of stuff?monthefish said:
Back in April 2007...
Sorry to hear about your misfortune, OP, but Don did warn you..
Yes, I had seen that (you may wish to note that I earlier referred to his posting history and provided dates). I'd also seen some of his earlier posts thereafter. And yes, he still had time to get a warranty. And yes I had specifically said he took a bet on the warranty and fell on the wrong side. I've also told others asking on here to take the warranty. So anyone suggesting I'm defending the OP's choice is, quite frankly missing the point. Yet again.Don said:
newboxsterS said:
What is the average cost for running a Boxster S for a year?
I reckon £1500. Some years it will be £200 for the service and £900 for the warranty. Some years you will add £1K for dics/pads. Discs and pads on mine lasted three years (and a LOT of track days!). If you said with the warranty the car would cost you £2K a year to run you would be absolutely safe. That's not cheap but there you go. If you service with a good independent and take a punt on the warranty you could run one a LOT cheaper - but if something big goes pop you'll take the hit to get it fixed.To the rest of you, indulge me: There was a time when engineering excellence was about longevity and reliability. This thread's contents - and others before it - suggest that Porsche may not be synonymous with such a view. At least, not for some of its products.
If you all accept that (and its financial implications), then there's no debate.
What I used to find odd (but now amusing) is that so many on here will complain bitterly at the lack of discretion/goodwill applied to, for instance, experience of a FPN or scamera, but will accept with little complaint a similarly inflexible attitude that means they're paying more in warranties for years 3-4 of ownership on a new Porsche, said costs likely exceeding their FPN and scamera cash penalties in those years. And that extended warranty (years 3-4) doesn't cover everything either. Why not add the cost of another two years of warranty to the overall cost of a new Porsche?
I'm no engineer of Hartech's qualifications, but his contributions to this issue have been repeatedly applauded by me - and others - whilst the original manufacturer told us of numerous design changes that meant the RMS problem was solved. Solved indeed.
If the RMS matter took so long to be "solved", how do we know that the newly designed engines do not have some new inherent issue that will be exposed eventually?
As I've written on another thread (Henry's doom and gloom part 1 or part 2), sometimes the people who spot something awry are not welcome to make such statements. Innovest were disparaged and ignored, when they made some unwelcome (but entirely correct) discoveries about sub-prime.
I have no issue with that on here with respect to the M96 engine and any of your views on my different position - what I do find amusing are the conceptual inconsistencies in some statements/arguments here.
As for whether I return to the thread or not, those who are complaining could always ignore my posts, couldn't they? In Vesuvius' and Deva Link's cases, I specifically stated that I would not respond to them any longer because they had begun to become abusive. That's grown up stuff, isn't it? My response was consistent in that I ignore anyone who becomes childish and won't (maybe cannot) stick to the facts, debating with the benefit of reason and evidence.
Without wishing to drag him into this, Baz's contributions are full of high quality intellectual analysis. That is very welcome. So are Henry's and RSJ's. Henry's recent posts on the economy are actually entirely conceptually consistent with well researched data published in the Telegraph, Times, Independent and Guardian - and indeed by the International Monetary Fund. He used different examples, and other contributors in the main supported, with evidence, his points. Anyone suggesting, as one of you disparagingly did, that Henry's views on that score, and his experience of Porker sales, are worth less because he's an Indie merely invites my contempt. I'm not sticking up for him - he can do it himself. But it is unhelpful to make such comments when you produce nothing of substance yourself. And if I am guilty of intellectual posturing, I refer you to my oft-repeated point which is that you can - nay, should - ignore my posts. No-one forced you to read them!
VR6time said:
As for threatening them with poor press, if Porsche are prepared to take on the likes of Red Ken then im sure that a 2nd hand Boxster owner who chose not to purchase any form of protection on his car will have them quaking in their boots.
Best of luck.
I'm only browsing this forum as I've been thinking of buying a 2nd hand Boxster to strip out and run as a trackday car. I've just abandoned the idea reading this. If people get scared of buying 2nd hand out of warantee cars then the price plummets. I'm sure Porsche really don't want to start to be seen as manufacture who's cars depreciate like bricks. That would harm sales.Best of luck.
Edited by Herman Toothrot on Tuesday 29th July 18:50
Herman,
If you use that theory, you wont have many cars to choose from.
By nature, people go onto the internet to vent, and to find solutions to problems.
Visit any forum, google any make - they will all have their issues. Modern cars are complex beasts, with more computing power than the rocket that took us to the moon in the 70's.
The OP of this thread bought an 8 year old car (after people on here suggested a warranty was a good way of limiting your risk). To date we dont even know the mileage on the car, but I am sure this will be listed on his "dontbuyaporsche.com" site. There are similar sites for BMW, mercedes, Ford, etc etc.
As above - if you cant afford the warranty, or the worst case failure, you shouldnt buy the car. Major failures can happen at 1 mile old, or 200,000 miles. The OP got unlucky. Dont let that put you off a Porsche.
Now lets let this thread do what the OP's engine did.
If you use that theory, you wont have many cars to choose from.
By nature, people go onto the internet to vent, and to find solutions to problems.
Visit any forum, google any make - they will all have their issues. Modern cars are complex beasts, with more computing power than the rocket that took us to the moon in the 70's.
The OP of this thread bought an 8 year old car (after people on here suggested a warranty was a good way of limiting your risk). To date we dont even know the mileage on the car, but I am sure this will be listed on his "dontbuyaporsche.com" site. There are similar sites for BMW, mercedes, Ford, etc etc.
As above - if you cant afford the warranty, or the worst case failure, you shouldnt buy the car. Major failures can happen at 1 mile old, or 200,000 miles. The OP got unlucky. Dont let that put you off a Porsche.
Now lets let this thread do what the OP's engine did.
Edited by eowen on Tuesday 29th July 19:12
bcnrml said:
Henry's recent posts on the economy are actually entirely conceptually consistent with well researched data published in the Telegraph, Times, Independent and Guardian - and indeed by the International Monetary Fund. He used different examples, and other contributors in the main supported, with evidence, his points. Anyone suggesting, as one of you disparagingly did, that Henry's views on that score, and his experience of Porker sales, are worth less because he's an Indie merely invites my contempt. I'm not sticking up for him - he can do it himself. But it is unhelpful to make such comments when you produce nothing of substance yourself. And if I am guilty of intellectual posturing, I refer you to my oft-repeated point which is that you can - nay, should - ignore my posts. No-one forced you to read them!
I must take issue with you that I disparaged Henry. If it came across like that then I apologise, that was not my intention.However Henry's views on the economy are personal views based on his own experience of how well his business is doing (well, apparently) and how busy the local shops are etc..
I presented the wider evidence that you so crave by pointing out that while Henry might be doing well, Porsche new car sales were down in excess of 50% last month. More widely, while Bicester Village might be busy, it's just been reported that the retail sales index has dropped to its lowest for 25years and mortgage approvals are the lowest since records began.
Perhaps you're in the wrong place - these are public forums and are places for chat, rather than deep intellectual discussion. Indeed, it doesn't pay to show off - not everyone knows what you're on about:
Henry-F said:
I gave up after the first couple of pages in the other thread because people were tossing around numbers and statistics that I could neither understand nor see how they had any possible relevance to today`s economic climate.
bcnrml said:
if I am guilty of intellectual posturing, I refer you to my oft-repeated point which is that you can - nay, should - ignore my posts. No-one forced you to read them!
There's no if about it, as for ignoring it, no way. Its great seeing how far up your own arse you are.Deva Link said:
Perhaps you're in the wrong place - these are public forums and are places for chat, rather than deep intellectual discussion. Indeed, it doesn't pay to show off - not everyone knows what you're on about
Neither does he..... But every board needs a weirdo wacko... Its what makes forums fun and makes you realise that you are a relatively well adjusted human being (no I am not well adjusted). He'll be an even bigger bore when he finally buys a car.Gunny Sergeant D said:
bcnrml said:
if I am guilty of intellectual posturing, I refer you to my oft-repeated point which is that you can - nay, should - ignore my posts. No-one forced you to read them!
There's no if about it, as for ignoring it, no way. Its great seeing how far up your own arse you are.Deva Link said:
Perhaps you're in the wrong place - these are public forums and are places for chat, rather than deep intellectual discussion. Indeed, it doesn't pay to show off - not everyone knows what you're on about
Neither does he..... But every board needs a weirdo wacko... Its what makes forums fun and makes you realise that you are a relatively well adjusted human being (no I am not well adjusted). He'll be an even bigger bore when he finally buys a car.
Deva Link, since you've reverted to some civility, I shall respond.
I presented the wider evidence that you so crave by pointing out that while Henry might be doing well, Porsche new car sales were down in excess of 50% last month. More widely, while Bicester Village might be busy, it's just been reported that the retail sales index has dropped to its lowest for 25years and mortgage approvals are the lowest since records began.Crave? I ask for it for sensible debate. Crave is your choice of words, not mine. Too many people on here post wild (often bigoted) opinion as "fact", devaluing the exchange of knowledge that comes from a chat (or discussion).
Your point about retail sales data (add Bicester) is no big deal: Retail sales are coming down from a state of excess, something that is long overdue, some of said excess fuelled by easy credit. The same is true for cars that rely to a great extent on easy credit. That's life. But we're not doomed.
Only last week I was in two different building societies in the City. In each case, the staff pushed to sell me a mortgage. I don't want their offers, thanks. But mortgages are being offered, and IIRC Halifax (and others) have started cutting rates. So doom and gloom is here, huh?
When you quote Porsche's new car sales data, you make one of my points yet again. In the context of a car market that is suffering, some will suffer more. Porsche, by your own posted evidence, is suffering more than other premium car marques (and I posted evidence as early as December 2007 to demonstrate this fact).
Do you think they are suffering more because of the credit crunch alone, or does the M96 issue and the Porsche ownership experience have anything to do with it? Y'see, Mercedes and BMW and Ferrari seemed to be doing better (check the data). Aston Martin? More or less the same (but marginally better the last time I looked).
None of the above can be good for Porker residuals. And still we are in denial, are we? Very good. A useful coping mechanism.....
Some retailers have indeed gone to the wall. Just as some hedge funds (very suddenly). Mortgage approvals were inflated by a bunch of speculators, easy credit, and a rapidly expanding market for BTL. Take those off and what we have is more likely to be sensible, rather than doom and gloom. I don't think Porsche will go to the wall, but we will all suffer if the new cars are plagued by any M96 type issues.
And then what are we all left with?
Perhaps you're in the wrong place - these are public forums and are places for chat, rather than deep intellectual discussion.Ah, so since I operate in a different way to you, I'm in the wrong place, am I? Let's all think alike shall we? Do you understand every technical post that is made on here? Or anywhere else on Pistonheads? Nice reasoning.
Indeed, it doesn't pay to show off - not everyone knows what you're on about:Just because you might not know what I'm on about doesn't mean others don't. Nor does it mean I am showing off. Only the other day, Pikey was in a petrol station and someone took umbrage at his beautiful shiny 997, likely thinking he was showing off. Are you such a person, except what and how I write are to you what a shiny 997 is to that man?
I remind you: You do not have to read my posts. You really don't. Just as that person offended by Pikey's ownership of a nice 997 didn't need to look in that direction (or listen to his sports exhaust!).
You might like to try some of my humility (yes, it does exist!). Y'see, I stay out of discussions I do not understand. I mostly post when I can contribute positively. If my method of posting offends you, don't read my posts. Are you getting the message?
To quote Henry as you did is interestingly selective (as usual). You conveniently forgot that he also went on to point out that others posting in that thread seemed to know what was going on. How many of us in that thread provided evidence that the world was not comng to an end as some would have us think? Have you answered my questions posed earlier to you? No (look for my response to your chips.....).
And what bunch of stats did I post, exactly? Have you accused me of something I am not guilty of?
If your thoughts are anything like the man in the Pikey-at-Petrol-Station scenario, it seems it is you, not I, who has one or more chips to think about!
Of course I could just be winding you (and others) up! But then, some of you seem to love it, even as you protest that you don't care for it much!
A cordial saludo and another of these to you
---
That's all from me on this thread! Even if there is further provocation......I've left the room.... and my silence is not evidence of my being impolite....
Deva Link said:
I presented the wider evidence that you so crave by pointing out that while Henry might be doing well, Porsche new car sales were down in excess of 50% last month. More widely, while Bicester Village might be busy, it's just been reported that the retail sales index has dropped to its lowest for 25years and mortgage approvals are the lowest since records began.
Your point about retail sales data (add Bicester) is no big deal: Retail sales are coming down from a state of excess, something that is long overdue, some of said excess fuelled by easy credit. The same is true for cars that rely to a great extent on easy credit. That's life. But we're not doomed.
Only last week I was in two different building societies in the City. In each case, the staff pushed to sell me a mortgage. I don't want their offers, thanks. But mortgages are being offered, and IIRC Halifax (and others) have started cutting rates. So doom and gloom is here, huh?
When you quote Porsche's new car sales data, you make one of my points yet again. In the context of a car market that is suffering, some will suffer more. Porsche, by your own posted evidence, is suffering more than other premium car marques (and I posted evidence as early as December 2007 to demonstrate this fact).
Do you think they are suffering more because of the credit crunch alone, or does the M96 issue and the Porsche ownership experience have anything to do with it? Y'see, Mercedes and BMW and Ferrari seemed to be doing better (check the data). Aston Martin? More or less the same (but marginally better the last time I looked).
None of the above can be good for Porker residuals. And still we are in denial, are we? Very good. A useful coping mechanism.....
Some retailers have indeed gone to the wall. Just as some hedge funds (very suddenly). Mortgage approvals were inflated by a bunch of speculators, easy credit, and a rapidly expanding market for BTL. Take those off and what we have is more likely to be sensible, rather than doom and gloom. I don't think Porsche will go to the wall, but we will all suffer if the new cars are plagued by any M96 type issues.
And then what are we all left with?
Deva Link said:
Perhaps you're in the wrong place - these are public forums and are places for chat, rather than deep intellectual discussion.
Deva Link said:
Indeed, it doesn't pay to show off - not everyone knows what you're on about:
I remind you: You do not have to read my posts. You really don't. Just as that person offended by Pikey's ownership of a nice 997 didn't need to look in that direction (or listen to his sports exhaust!).
You might like to try some of my humility (yes, it does exist!). Y'see, I stay out of discussions I do not understand. I mostly post when I can contribute positively. If my method of posting offends you, don't read my posts. Are you getting the message?
To quote Henry as you did is interestingly selective (as usual). You conveniently forgot that he also went on to point out that others posting in that thread seemed to know what was going on. How many of us in that thread provided evidence that the world was not comng to an end as some would have us think? Have you answered my questions posed earlier to you? No (look for my response to your chips.....).
And what bunch of stats did I post, exactly? Have you accused me of something I am not guilty of?
If your thoughts are anything like the man in the Pikey-at-Petrol-Station scenario, it seems it is you, not I, who has one or more chips to think about!
Of course I could just be winding you (and others) up! But then, some of you seem to love it, even as you protest that you don't care for it much!
A cordial saludo and another of these to you
---
That's all from me on this thread! Even if there is further provocation......I've left the room.... and my silence is not evidence of my being impolite....
Edited by bcnrml on Tuesday 29th July 20:31
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff