£100k budget trackday / weekend car
Discussion
Similar thread (£85k budget was mentioned) is on here but unlike that user, I care less/v little about “theatre” and more about track performance, handling, etc. Also, reliability.
So I’m in the lucky position of having this kind of budget for a second car, which will be a “fun” car i.e. used for trackdays, weekend getaways and generally I don’t need to worry about practical considerations much. I’d like to (occasionally) drive it to work in London, so for that reason wouldn’t want something with bucket seats, or a roll cage, or a Caterham etc, but other than that the brief is “fun”/toy car.
I have been told by people who know what they’re talking about that there’s no point in buying an outrageous supercar and I agree; they also suggested something much more moderate like MX-5 or GT86 or an old Cayman S, and while I agree these are probably fantastically handling cars, I think I’d like something more special as I’ve been saving for this purchase for a while.
My shortlist with pro’s and cons is as follows (in order of preference). For my budget, I’d be getting a brand new 718 and depending on the car, 2018/19 year in other models.
1. 718 4.0 GT4 (with PDK). Pros: raving reviews pretty much everywhere. I’d be getting a brand new car in my budget. Cons: impractical, low clearance (will scrape on speed bumps around London), rear spoiler looks a bit silly IMO. I hate the tape door pulls, which is obviously just a minor niggle.
2. 718 4.0 GTS. Pros: supposed to be like GT4 but with that extra bit of practicality – I could commute in it, for instance, and use my local NCP car park with no fear of scraping on the ramp. Cons: supposedly not as sharp handling as GT4.
3. 911 GTS (991.2). Pros: 4 seats, can’t go wrong with a Porsche, great interior. Cons: heavy, will probably handle less well than 718
4. 570S. Pros: superb handling (according to reviews, and the 1 day I spent in it). Cons: depreciation; interior quality – even in the car I drove, bits were falling off here and there. Reliability.
5. R8 V10 Plus / AMG GT (R or S). Same apply to both: Pros: interior quality, semblance of practicality, engine sound, performance. Cons: would be buying a ~2018 car. R8 may not feel “special”. R8 supposedly won’t oversteer/slide easily on track.
I’ve rented some sports cars in the past and the one I enjoyed driving most was Lotus Exige – but I know I’d hate owning it (due to poor interior quality, how difficult it was to get in and out, lack of infotainment / decent sound system / any other driver comforts, etc)… I want sharp handling, car that will oversteer/slide easily on track, but also some practicality / sound system / interior where bits won’t start falling off or look like they were taken from an entry level Japanese compact car.
Would love to hear everyone’s thoughts!
So I’m in the lucky position of having this kind of budget for a second car, which will be a “fun” car i.e. used for trackdays, weekend getaways and generally I don’t need to worry about practical considerations much. I’d like to (occasionally) drive it to work in London, so for that reason wouldn’t want something with bucket seats, or a roll cage, or a Caterham etc, but other than that the brief is “fun”/toy car.
I have been told by people who know what they’re talking about that there’s no point in buying an outrageous supercar and I agree; they also suggested something much more moderate like MX-5 or GT86 or an old Cayman S, and while I agree these are probably fantastically handling cars, I think I’d like something more special as I’ve been saving for this purchase for a while.
My shortlist with pro’s and cons is as follows (in order of preference). For my budget, I’d be getting a brand new 718 and depending on the car, 2018/19 year in other models.
1. 718 4.0 GT4 (with PDK). Pros: raving reviews pretty much everywhere. I’d be getting a brand new car in my budget. Cons: impractical, low clearance (will scrape on speed bumps around London), rear spoiler looks a bit silly IMO. I hate the tape door pulls, which is obviously just a minor niggle.
2. 718 4.0 GTS. Pros: supposed to be like GT4 but with that extra bit of practicality – I could commute in it, for instance, and use my local NCP car park with no fear of scraping on the ramp. Cons: supposedly not as sharp handling as GT4.
3. 911 GTS (991.2). Pros: 4 seats, can’t go wrong with a Porsche, great interior. Cons: heavy, will probably handle less well than 718
4. 570S. Pros: superb handling (according to reviews, and the 1 day I spent in it). Cons: depreciation; interior quality – even in the car I drove, bits were falling off here and there. Reliability.
5. R8 V10 Plus / AMG GT (R or S). Same apply to both: Pros: interior quality, semblance of practicality, engine sound, performance. Cons: would be buying a ~2018 car. R8 may not feel “special”. R8 supposedly won’t oversteer/slide easily on track.
I’ve rented some sports cars in the past and the one I enjoyed driving most was Lotus Exige – but I know I’d hate owning it (due to poor interior quality, how difficult it was to get in and out, lack of infotainment / decent sound system / any other driver comforts, etc)… I want sharp handling, car that will oversteer/slide easily on track, but also some practicality / sound system / interior where bits won’t start falling off or look like they were taken from an entry level Japanese compact car.
Would love to hear everyone’s thoughts!
bennno said:
Be mad to buy an exige.
Id suggest you drive a GTS, R8 V10 and a 911T
I’m surprised by the recommendation (but happy to stand corrected!)Id suggest you drive a GTS, R8 V10 and a 911T
If trackday fun and handling in general are my priorities, wouldn’t GT4 be a better choice than 718 GTS; 911 GTS better than 911 Turbo; etc?
Bispal said:
You are mad not to consider the Exige 430CUP
As I just pointed out in the other thread you refer to, the Exige is far more of a track experience than the GT4 / Spyder. The Porsches will go round track at the same lap time and with super consistency lap after lap, but that's no fun (not for me anyway! The Exige you have to learn and master, its much more engaging. IMHO of owning and tracking both.
Like I said, I drove an Exige for a day before, and while super-fun, this is where I draw the line in terms of how impractical/inconvenient my 2nd car can be. I want something spirited and with great handling, but with just that tiny bit more polish and interior quality than ExigeAs I just pointed out in the other thread you refer to, the Exige is far more of a track experience than the GT4 / Spyder. The Porsches will go round track at the same lap time and with super consistency lap after lap, but that's no fun (not for me anyway! The Exige you have to learn and master, its much more engaging. IMHO of owning and tracking both.
Bispal said:
I think you are sending mixed messages, I thought you wanted a track car? I think you are confusing basic with quality. Adding loads of tech does not make something high quality it just makes it heavier with more superfluous stuff.
ok fair point. And agreed on basic doesn't mean low quality. It's just in the Exige I was put off by the fact that all electronic displays seemed to have lower resolution than an accounting calculator 
and that I couldn't even play music from my iPhone. Also no air-conditioning from what I recall (could be wrong though, I drove it in the summer with windows down). I know hardcore track enthusiasts may say all this is irrelevant, but when I'm up at an ungodly hour, driving by myself in the dark for an 8am track session start somewhere 2hrs away, I at least want to be warm and listening to nice music. I don't require an all-singing, all-dancing infotainment system but some basic comforts would be nice. _Leg_ said:
There are no electronic displays in an Exige S3. It has an analogue dash with the usual lights for lights, traction, drivetrain mode etc and a head unit but there are no electronic displays (unless it's been fitted with an AiM2 digital dash like mine - stock pic below).
there was one for fuel from what I recall. Dash was analogue, agreed. _Leg_ said:
Hearing what you say though you should buy a GT4. Even a standard Exige 350 Sport will leave it for dead on track and an Exige modified as I describe above is in a different class on track altogether. However, there's no denying that driving on the road, driving to and from track, the GT4 is a comfier, more cultured and nicer place to be.
Otherwise agreed. Thanks for the detailed replies. I guess I'm still deciding, is the current thinking. Holiday abroad has been cancelled so I have good 2 weeks at home to read up and think about it before I confirm with the Porsche dealer in January whether I want to stay on the list, or want the £5k deposit I had paid for Gt4 back. Edited by px1980 on Wednesday 23 December 10:57
Bispal said:
OP. have you driven the 718 GT4?
No, I haven't. Not really sure how I could have? Porsche centers don't offer test drives as far as I know, it's not really something I could rent, and I don't have mates who own one, either. I'm taking the reviews at face value, 2019 Evo car of the year etc, and not a single review that I could find that would be less than 4.5 stars out of 5.Bispal said:
The other cars mentioned are too heavy for track.
agreed. I have seen people in 911s & AMG GTs on track, hence me including these cars on the list, but at the moment the choices are 3: (1) 718 GT4 (2) 718 GTS 4.0 (3) Exige (? maaaybe). As for the suggestions to buy 2 cars, or keep renting trackday cars. This will be my first sports car so it feels a bit silly to go straight into the option of buying 2, 1 for road and 1 for track; or to buy 1 for road, but then keep spending £ on trackday rentals. I'd rather have 1 car that I can explore extensively, develop as a driver and then sell on after 2 years or so - at which stage, I could think of upgrading to the 2-car supercar + trackday car combo. Also the daily is already a car that my gf doesn't quite approve of as I chose it on the basis of what I like, rather than what'd work for both of us;) (it's a Macan Turbo with Perf Pack, which she finds too wide / too fast / too everything, really. Her choice would have been a small Volvo or similar...). So not really an option for me to end up with 3 cars, none of which she likes!
Reliability is a big factor for me, too. To be able to afford a car like this I'm normally very busy with work. So I just want minimum hassle. Buy a car, track it once a fortnight, have someone fix things for me once a year or so. I'm not the kind of person who'd enjoy spending hours on weekends in the garage tinkering with stuff in the car - I neither enjoy it nor have the time for it. Not sure if this is relevant but I assumed GT4 or GTS would be relatively hassle-free, as I would be buying a brand new car.
Leaving aside the Exige vs 718 debate, the question I'd like to explore further is GT4 vs GTS 4.0, of which I've seen no direct comparisons so far on this forum - but I guess I'd have to post in Porsche forum now, not Supercars. GT4 is said to be a better trackday car, but then lots of reviews mention that GTS is indistinguishable from GT4 to an average driver (such as myself...I'm no ace TBH), so I'd like to understand that.
That said, Exige continues to be the car of all that I've driven in 20+ years that I remember best, so there you have it...;)
Edited by px1980 on Wednesday 23 December 12:32
Bispal said:
If I were you I would spend around £40k on a used Exige as you know you like it, and see how you get on, upgrading the suspension to Nitrons, which are better on road too. They keep their prices very well after a year you will only loose a few thousand pounds if you change your mind. I lost £12k in 18 months on my spyder. I lost £1k in 12 months on a 350 Exige! The 718 is not a car I would track as it would need to go to the main dealer whereas with Lotus there are lots of good specialists. I haven't driven a GTS but I would rather use something less precious and more focused on track. You may not even like track days or have the time. I end up cancelling 75% of the ones I sign up for due to work commitments!
Damn. I came in here decided on the shortlist in my original post, dead-set that I’m not getting an Exige. Now you people have planted the seed of doubt! I could, like you say, spend half the money I was planning to and have more fun on track. Or I could even buy an R8 V10 togo with the Exige for the savings!
Out of curiosity, how did you sell the Lotus for only a £1k loss - that couldn’t have been through a dealer, I assume, as their haircut is always like 5-10% (i.e. if I were to buy a car and then sell it back to them next day,
the loss would be 5-10%)?
200Plus Club said:
OP- it depends which trackdays you do etc but you won't get away with doing trackdays once a fortnight plus daily driving and only one or two visits a year to the garage.
and let me guess, brake changes on a 718 need to be done by an approved Porsche dealer in order to keep the warranty?;) Good point you're raising 200Plus Club said:
If you are doing regular trackdays
well I found I do quite enjoy those, so realistically we're talking once a month. 200Plus Club said:
Have a look on the lotus forums as those guys have it nailed with the elises and exiges as mentioned already, a good compromise car if you must do both in one vehicle.
will do. I did see tons of Exige's at trackdays I've been to, so that obviously speaks to the car's suitability for this sort of thingSinkygolf said:
This also caught my attention last week with some quite extensive mods which might be a half way point between fast road and track and you would save yourself 45k.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012167...
Yeah I did think about M2 Competition or CS briefly. Then I realised CS is ~£80k new, v close to GT4 and I’d rather have the porsche when choosing between these 2. I didn’t realise Competition was this much cheaper (or possibly depreciated quicker - in any case, there’s no way I could have either a GT4 or 718 GTS for anything close to £57k). So this could now be an interesting alternative.https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012167...
But with this car, the 2 main issues with GT4 in my scenario, i.e. (1) front splitter which will scrape on ramps/inclines (2) high weight which would mean on track, it’ll be expensive to run - those still apply, would you not agree?
bobbysmithy said:
All goes back to volume of use and trackdays - how many are you planning on doing PA? <5, <10, 15-20?
More than 5, less than 10. Say 8 annually (I’m guessing a bit here). How much should I expect to spend on tyres, brake pads, servicing of M2/ GT4/ Exige? With each option, the car would be used 50% time travk, 50% time road, but I think it’s safe to assume 95% of wear would be on track... Insurance is expensive but from the quotes I saw there’s v little difference in premiums for these 3 cars Edited by px1980 on Saturday 26th December 09:41
Shnozz said:
Another vote for an exige.
Although a lot of sense in the suggestion to rent a track car as and when needed and make it someone else’s problem. I switched to renting BatCats whenever I did a track day. Turn up in comfort, climb in the caterhal and let BaT take take of everything down to filling it with fuel.
Even taking into account the modest running costs of an exige, I still think it would be hard to financially beat renting a car as and when required.
I checked online, and these things cost £1000+vat for a day’s rental of a Caterham. They’re not cheap right?Although a lot of sense in the suggestion to rent a track car as and when needed and make it someone else’s problem. I switched to renting BatCats whenever I did a track day. Turn up in comfort, climb in the caterhal and let BaT take take of everything down to filling it with fuel.
Even taking into account the modest running costs of an exige, I still think it would be hard to financially beat renting a car as and when required.
Far Cough said:
Unless you factor in a 911 GT3
I too was surprised we got into 3 pages and no one mentioned a GT3. Probably because the OP was specific about the choice of an Exige or a GT4. If all bets are off now, then I`d be looking for a GT3.
I`ve just got out of a GTS with the 4 cylinder engine and I tracked it loads. Fantastic bit of kit. Had it 2 years and it cost me nothing to run in the grans scheme of things. I put 2 sets of tyres on it and had to replace the front brakes. Other than that it never missed a beat and embarrassed some pretty expensive machinery on track. When it was time to go home , I just put it in auto, set the cruise and wafted home ! I imagine the GT4 would be no different other than they have better and bigger brakes as standard so you would probably be OK and not have to replace. Even if you need to replace the pads on a GT4, its a very easy job and does not have to done by an OPC.
I chopped the GTS in for a 991.2 GT3 as my thoughts were that I was heading that way anyway so getting a GT4 would just be adding an extra car in between the other 2. You mention that you would do 1 trackday per month and I am assuming you mean in the summer months ? Even so , most insurance policies that cover trackdays give you about 6 per policy. A GT3 or GT4 would soak up that no problem at all. One trackday per month is not that much leaving the rest of the time running the car on the road. This percentage would not encourage me to get a Lotus unless that percentage changed quite a bit !!!
It`s a nice decision to have. You could do what a mate of mine has just done and get a couple of year old GT4, still in as new condition and arguably a more involving drive than a 718 ( if you believe the car journo`s ) and pocket £30k for tyres, petrol and possibly some brake pads.
It goes round and round and I have been there and got the T shirt. If you want a road car that soaks up trackdays then Porsche is the answer......
So you tracked the 718 GTS several (do you know how many) times over 2 years, and costs were 2 sets of tyres + pads? + insurance also I guess? Would you mind sharing the £ figure please? Because this sounds very close to how I’d be using the car.I too was surprised we got into 3 pages and no one mentioned a GT3. Probably because the OP was specific about the choice of an Exige or a GT4. If all bets are off now, then I`d be looking for a GT3.
I`ve just got out of a GTS with the 4 cylinder engine and I tracked it loads. Fantastic bit of kit. Had it 2 years and it cost me nothing to run in the grans scheme of things. I put 2 sets of tyres on it and had to replace the front brakes. Other than that it never missed a beat and embarrassed some pretty expensive machinery on track. When it was time to go home , I just put it in auto, set the cruise and wafted home ! I imagine the GT4 would be no different other than they have better and bigger brakes as standard so you would probably be OK and not have to replace. Even if you need to replace the pads on a GT4, its a very easy job and does not have to done by an OPC.
I chopped the GTS in for a 991.2 GT3 as my thoughts were that I was heading that way anyway so getting a GT4 would just be adding an extra car in between the other 2. You mention that you would do 1 trackday per month and I am assuming you mean in the summer months ? Even so , most insurance policies that cover trackdays give you about 6 per policy. A GT3 or GT4 would soak up that no problem at all. One trackday per month is not that much leaving the rest of the time running the car on the road. This percentage would not encourage me to get a Lotus unless that percentage changed quite a bit !!!
It`s a nice decision to have. You could do what a mate of mine has just done and get a couple of year old GT4, still in as new condition and arguably a more involving drive than a 718 ( if you believe the car journo`s ) and pocket £30k for tyres, petrol and possibly some brake pads.
It goes round and round and I have been there and got the T shirt. If you want a road car that soaks up trackdays then Porsche is the answer......
Far Cough said:
Probably 8 trackdays per year in my ownership.......... the std rotors on the front which are drilled are the weak point. Mine was normal steel brakes not the PCCB`s...... I plumped for the Big Brake Kit from Nine Excellence. Circa £1500 which was reasonable and the fit and quality was superb. Anybody with half a brain could fit it as it retains original calliper.
Michelin Pilot 4s tyres were about £800 all round. No service needed as the car came freshly serviced and the next one was due after I part ex`d it. I paid out to PPF the front of it due to the track use but not essential. Track insurance was part of my annual policy and I`d normally average 150-180 miles on track each time. During my ownership it also did a eurotrip each year which was 2500 miles of hooning round the Alps.
These costs look reasonable - if I understand correctly, £1500 for brakes + 2x£800 for tyres for 2 years of 8x / year track days. So that’s £200/event in consumables. Insurance seems awfully expensive, I haven’t yet done proper research but quotes I’ve seen were £670 per *event*. I do hope to find something cheaper though. Say I manage to find something (assuming some multi-event discount) for £300/event. That’d be £500/event total costs, plus track fee. Not great but still cheaper than renting a Caterham for each event. I’m not sure if I haven’t missed something though. It could be that my assumptions here are optimistic.Michelin Pilot 4s tyres were about £800 all round. No service needed as the car came freshly serviced and the next one was due after I part ex`d it. I paid out to PPF the front of it due to the track use but not essential. Track insurance was part of my annual policy and I`d normally average 150-180 miles on track each time. During my ownership it also did a eurotrip each year which was 2500 miles of hooning round the Alps.
Then there’s depreciation, too, obviously. On a GT4 it may be less than on other cars, but still.
Far Cough said:
Car did not miss a beat and having PDK was glorious as it allowed me the best of both worlds. Engaging when I want it to be and totally lazy when the roads were busy and slow. I can only imagine , a GT4 would be even better and more focused but you dont have the option of knocking it into auto for the boring stuff. Hence why I went GT3.
GTS was on standard suspension setup and it was a conscious decision to leave it that way and not pay for a slightly better setup. The downside was the tyres would wear the outside edge on track ,but the inside edge on the road. Something has to give when your flat out round a circuit !!!
That’s exactly my thinking. I’d be getting a GT4 with PDK as my heel and toe game is non existent. I was thinking that way I’d be getting great track experience, and easy cruising to/from it on the motorway, or - more importantly - I could still use it around London occassionally, not having to constantly switch between 1st and 2nd in the stop start traffic. GTS was on standard suspension setup and it was a conscious decision to leave it that way and not pay for a slightly better setup. The downside was the tyres would wear the outside edge on track ,but the inside edge on the road. Something has to give when your flat out round a circuit !!!
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