These fifty grand loans

These fifty grand loans

Author
Discussion

Rufus Stone

6,426 posts

57 months

Thursday 16th February 2023
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
Exactly that. The administrator took over the company and brought it to an end. They deemed it was indeed insolvent and that we weren't pulling a fast one.

Our only creditor at the time was the bank for the remainder of the BBL. They didn't dispute anything and that was the end of that. The only outcome is that an otherwise solid company that I spent 20 odd years building folded as a result of the very institution that lent us the money asking for other money they gave us two years earlier, back, and abandoning projects that we had secured that would have enabled us to repay the loan in full.
Sounds very much like typical government thinking. biggrin

Deesee

8,490 posts

84 months

Thursday 16th February 2023
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
skwdenyer said:
JiggyJaggy said:
And what was the outcome in terms of you paying or not paying that?
Why would he pay? The ltd company was the borrower.
Exactly that. The administrator took over the company and brought it to an end. They deemed it was indeed insolvent and that we weren't pulling a fast one.

Our only creditor at the time was the bank for the remainder of the BBL. They didn't dispute anything and that was the end of that. The only outcome is that an otherwise solid company that I spent 20 odd years building folded as a result of the very institution that lent us the money asking for other money they gave us two years earlier, back, and abandoning projects that we had secured that would have enabled us to repay the loan in full.
Steviebee (OT) why did HMRC not present themselves as a creditor? Following the REDC clawback?

REDC (R&D tax credit)..

Or did HMRC effectively fold you without recourse./hindsight/foresight?

F****ing wrong on all accounts from them BTW.

Not good for HMG/bank/taxpayers eh!

Keep well thumbup

X

Deesee

8,490 posts

84 months

Thursday 16th February 2023
quotequote all
Inbetween the day job and half term for the kids..

I’ve had a quick look at the insolvency services latest personal banning’s today..

Very little vat/carousel type fraud.. all bounce back loans buying gold etc.. no Rolexes but plenty of gambling debts repaid..

Here’s the list with the additional restrictions..

https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/IESdatabas...

Gold purchase = settling drug debts

Gambling debts = settling drug debts

Enjoy!

akirk

5,407 posts

115 months

Thursday 16th February 2023
quotequote all
Deesee said:
Inbetween the day job and half term for the kids..

I’ve had a quick look at the insolvency services latest personal banning’s today..

Very little vat/carousel type fraud.. all bounce back loans buying gold etc.. no Rolexes but plenty of gambling debts repaid..

Here’s the list with the additional restrictions..

https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/IESdatabas...

Gold purchase = settling drug debts

Gambling debts = settling drug debts

Enjoy!
First one I looked at was 1/2 a mile away from me and had a bounce back loan which bought nearly £50k of gold... didn't realise that neighbourhood was quite so exciting...

my favourite is: "disposed of £561,310 to the detriment of HMRC and other creditors by gambling causing his insolvency," quite incredible what some people do... though also a tinge of sadness that anyone is so caught by gambling...

Deesee

8,490 posts

84 months

Thursday 16th February 2023
quotequote all
akirk said:
Deesee said:
Inbetween the day job and half term for the kids..

I’ve had a quick look at the insolvency services latest personal banning’s today..

Very little vat/carousel type fraud.. all bounce back loans buying gold etc.. no Rolexes but plenty of gambling debts repaid..

Here’s the list with the additional restrictions..

https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/IESdatabas...

Gold purchase = settling drug debts

Gambling debts = settling drug debts

Enjoy!
First one I looked at was 1/2 a mile away from me and had a bounce back loan which bought nearly £50k of gold... didn't realise that neighbourhood was quite so exciting...

my favourite is: "disposed of £561,310 to the detriment of HMRC and other creditors by gambling causing his insolvency," quite incredible what some people do... though also a tinge of sadness that anyone is so caught by gambling...
1st one


Brinks Matt!! Seriously where in your neighbourhood could you turn up and buy 50k of gold (I’ll assume your not in central london).

2nd one


No that’s owe the drug dealers money, here’s a ltd company, & yes you spent it all on gambling, “yeh I know u owe me 10 grand, but I really need 500k washing’ ,thanks.. lol…

akirk

5,407 posts

115 months

Thursday 16th February 2023
quotequote all
Deesee said:
akirk said:
Deesee said:
Inbetween the day job and half term for the kids..

I’ve had a quick look at the insolvency services latest personal banning’s today..

Very little vat/carousel type fraud.. all bounce back loans buying gold etc.. no Rolexes but plenty of gambling debts repaid..

Here’s the list with the additional restrictions..

https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/IESdatabas...

Gold purchase = settling drug debts

Gambling debts = settling drug debts

Enjoy!
First one I looked at was 1/2 a mile away from me and had a bounce back loan which bought nearly £50k of gold... didn't realise that neighbourhood was quite so exciting...

my favourite is: "disposed of £561,310 to the detriment of HMRC and other creditors by gambling causing his insolvency," quite incredible what some people do... though also a tinge of sadness that anyone is so caught by gambling...
1st one


Brinks Matt!! Seriously where in your neighbourhood could you turn up and buy 50k of gold (I’ll assume your not in central london).

2nd one


No that’s owe the drug dealers money, here’s a ltd company, & yes you spent it all on gambling, “yeh I know u owe me 10 grand, but I really need 500k washing’ ,thanks.. lol…
A respectable part of Bristol!

Deesee

8,490 posts

84 months

Thursday 16th February 2023
quotequote all
akirk said:
A respectable part of Bristol!
biglaugh

Money laundering centre of the West Country.

biglaugh

A. There’s a really reputable bullion dealer in Bristol, that deals with the population of Bristol.

B. Took the cash.. & deal with scrag ends with 50k cash in there pocket.. gave them a 20% discount and made a 40% margin..

Better than Brinks Matt. Totally legal..


akirk

5,407 posts

115 months

Thursday 16th February 2023
quotequote all
Deesee said:
biglaugh

Money laundering centre of the West Country.

biglaugh

A. There’s a really reputable bullion dealer in Bristol, that deals with the population of Bristol.

B. Took the cash.. & deal with scrag ends with 50k cash in there pocket.. gave them a 20% discount and made a 40% margin..

Better than Brinks Matt. Totally legal..
I must be doing something wrong then biggrin

Deesee

8,490 posts

84 months

Thursday 16th February 2023
quotequote all
akirk said:
I must be doing something wrong then biggrin
Next pandemic I’ll dm you (& myself) lol

StevieBee

12,967 posts

256 months

Thursday 16th February 2023
quotequote all
Deesee said:
StevieBee said:
skwdenyer said:
JiggyJaggy said:
And what was the outcome in terms of you paying or not paying that?
Why would he pay? The ltd company was the borrower.
Exactly that. The administrator took over the company and brought it to an end. They deemed it was indeed insolvent and that we weren't pulling a fast one.

Our only creditor at the time was the bank for the remainder of the BBL. They didn't dispute anything and that was the end of that. The only outcome is that an otherwise solid company that I spent 20 odd years building folded as a result of the very institution that lent us the money asking for other money they gave us two years earlier, back, and abandoning projects that we had secured that would have enabled us to repay the loan in full.
Steviebee (OT) why did HMRC not present themselves as a creditor? Following the REDC clawback?

REDC (R&D tax credit)..

Or did HMRC effectively fold you without recourse./hindsight/foresight?

F****ing wrong on all accounts from them BTW.

Not good for HMG/bank/taxpayers eh!

Keep well thumbup

X
Who knows?

They were made aware.








Deesee

8,490 posts

84 months

Thursday 16th February 2023
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
Who knows?

They were made aware.
.. deleted..

Edited by Deesee on Thursday 16th February 21:50

Louis Balfour

26,455 posts

223 months

Friday 17th February 2023
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
Around a week after the administrator had been appointed, we received a letter from the bank that beggared belief. It was one rung away from saying "pay up toe-rag or we'll do your knee caps". It was by far, the most unprofessional correspondence I think I've ever seen and smacked of panic on behalf of the bank. I've got a copy somewhere and will scan and share if I can find it.
Post up the letter (redacted obvs).

I can well believe that the bank wasn't looking forward to reclaiming the money from the government.

2 GKC

1,915 posts

106 months

Friday 17th February 2023
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
The company of which I was a Director succumbed to Covid with £30k of the £50k outstanding (ironically, what did for the company was the abandoning of two public sector projects that had previously been put on hold and HMRC clawing back a sizeable R&D tax credit that they erroneously awarded us two year priors all of which was not known to us at the point of application.... so a case of the government shooting themselves in the foot. Either way its demise was entirely genuine and unwelcome).

Around a week after the administrator had been appointed, we received a letter from the bank that beggared belief. It was one rung away from saying "pay up toe-rag or we'll do your knee caps". It was by far, the most unprofessional correspondence I think I've ever seen and smacked of panic on behalf of the bank. I've got a copy somewhere and will scan and share if I can find it.
How did HMRC erroneously award you an R&D credit? Do you mean you erroneously claimed it?

jammy-git

29,778 posts

213 months

Friday 17th February 2023
quotequote all
2 GKC said:
StevieBee said:
The company of which I was a Director succumbed to Covid with £30k of the £50k outstanding (ironically, what did for the company was the abandoning of two public sector projects that had previously been put on hold and HMRC clawing back a sizeable R&D tax credit that they erroneously awarded us two year priors all of which was not known to us at the point of application.... so a case of the government shooting themselves in the foot. Either way its demise was entirely genuine and unwelcome).

Around a week after the administrator had been appointed, we received a letter from the bank that beggared belief. It was one rung away from saying "pay up toe-rag or we'll do your knee caps". It was by far, the most unprofessional correspondence I think I've ever seen and smacked of panic on behalf of the bank. I've got a copy somewhere and will scan and share if I can find it.
How did HMRC erroneously award you an R&D credit? Do you mean you erroneously claimed it?
It's not uncommon for businesses to apply for R&D tax credits, for HMRC to accept the claim and pay out, only to then reject the claim further down the line and request the money back.

2 GKC

1,915 posts

106 months

Friday 17th February 2023
quotequote all
jammy-git said:
It's not uncommon for businesses to apply for R&D tax credits, for HMRC to accept the claim and pay out, only to then reject the claim further down the line and request the money back.
It would only be rejected if erroneously claimed. It seems a bit naive for a Director of a “sound” business to suggest it was erroneously awarded and its repayment was a major factor in bringing a business down.

Chrisgr31

13,505 posts

256 months

Friday 17th February 2023
quotequote all
Deesee said:
akirk said:
Deesee said:
Inbetween the day job and half term for the kids..

I’ve had a quick look at the insolvency services latest personal banning’s today..

Very little vat/carousel type fraud.. all bounce back loans buying gold etc.. no Rolexes but plenty of gambling debts repaid..

Here’s the list with the additional restrictions..

https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/IESdatabas...

Gold purchase = settling drug debts

Gambling debts = settling drug debts

Enjoy!
First one I looked at was 1/2 a mile away from me and had a bounce back loan which bought nearly £50k of gold... didn't realise that neighbourhood was quite so exciting...

my favourite is: "disposed of £561,310 to the detriment of HMRC and other creditors by gambling causing his insolvency," quite incredible what some people do... though also a tinge of sadness that anyone is so caught by gambling...
1st one


Brinks Matt!! Seriously where in your neighbourhood could you turn up and buy 50k of gold (I’ll assume your not in central london).

2nd one


No that’s owe the drug dealers money, here’s a ltd company, & yes you spent it all on gambling, “yeh I know u owe me 10 grand, but I really need 500k washing’ ,thanks.. lol…
Aaron Best bought £50k of gold which was then stolen!

StevieBee

12,967 posts

256 months

Friday 17th February 2023
quotequote all
jammy-git said:
2 GKC said:
StevieBee said:
The company of which I was a Director succumbed to Covid with £30k of the £50k outstanding (ironically, what did for the company was the abandoning of two public sector projects that had previously been put on hold and HMRC clawing back a sizeable R&D tax credit that they erroneously awarded us two year priors all of which was not known to us at the point of application.... so a case of the government shooting themselves in the foot. Either way its demise was entirely genuine and unwelcome).

Around a week after the administrator had been appointed, we received a letter from the bank that beggared belief. It was one rung away from saying "pay up toe-rag or we'll do your knee caps". It was by far, the most unprofessional correspondence I think I've ever seen and smacked of panic on behalf of the bank. I've got a copy somewhere and will scan and share if I can find it.
How did HMRC erroneously award you an R&D credit? Do you mean you erroneously claimed it?
It's not uncommon for businesses to apply for R&D tax credits, for HMRC to accept the claim and pay out, only to then reject the claim further down the line and request the money back.
I've documented my story on the R&D thread but this is exactly what happened. Approached by a reputable R&D rebate claim company - made an initial assessment and concluded that we qualified. They helped with the application which was successful. Unbeknown to us HMRC run a 'pay now - check later' policy and when they checked later, they found our claim was not valid. At no point verbally or anywhere written was there any mention of this being a possibility and we did potentially have a legal claim against the R&D rebate claim company but they went bust shortly before us.

I find it beyond incredible that HMRC adopt such a policy but they do.

Deesee

8,490 posts

84 months

Friday 17th February 2023
quotequote all
Chrisgr31 said:
Deesee said:
akirk said:
Deesee said:
Inbetween the day job and half term for the kids..

I’ve had a quick look at the insolvency services latest personal banning’s today..

Very little vat/carousel type fraud.. all bounce back loans buying gold etc.. no Rolexes but plenty of gambling debts repaid..

Here’s the list with the additional restrictions..

https://www.insolvencydirect.bis.gov.uk/IESdatabas...

Gold purchase = settling drug debts

Gambling debts = settling drug debts

Enjoy!
First one I looked at was 1/2 a mile away from me and had a bounce back loan which bought nearly £50k of gold... didn't realise that neighbourhood was quite so exciting...

my favourite is: "disposed of £561,310 to the detriment of HMRC and other creditors by gambling causing his insolvency," quite incredible what some people do... though also a tinge of sadness that anyone is so caught by gambling...
1st one


Brinks Matt!! Seriously where in your neighbourhood could you turn up and buy 50k of gold (I’ll assume your not in central london).

2nd one


No that’s owe the drug dealers money, here’s a ltd company, & yes you spent it all on gambling, “yeh I know u owe me 10 grand, but I really need 500k washing’ ,thanks.. lol…
Aaron Best bought £50k of gold which was then stolen!
His address is on there… might be worth sweeping the garden with a metal detector.. hehe

classicaholic

1,750 posts

71 months

Friday 17th February 2023
quotequote all
Chrisgr31 said:
Aaron Best bought £50k of gold which was then stolen!
So unlucky!

M1AGM

2,381 posts

33 months

Friday 17th February 2023
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
I've documented my story on the R&D thread but this is exactly what happened. Approached by a reputable R&D rebate claim company - made an initial assessment and concluded that we qualified. They helped with the application which was successful. Unbeknown to us HMRC run a 'pay now - check later' policy and when they checked later, they found our claim was not valid. At no point verbally or anywhere written was there any mention of this being a possibility and we did potentially have a legal claim against the R&D rebate claim company but they went bust shortly before us.

I find it beyond incredible that HMRC adopt such a policy but they do.
Agreed. One business owner I know makes significant claims each year because his view is why not, if they have to repay any, so be it. It’s a free spin of the wheel. Bizarre.