Blanket 20mph limit across Wales from 2023
Discussion
oakdale said:
Smells like election prep to me. You can make vague noises about something and drop it like a hot potato after polling day. I've been watching these stories coming out over the last few months and so far I've seen no actual commitment to fixing this problem so they're taking people for fools - again... and they'll probably get away with it. oakdale said:
Itchy won't be happy 
ingenieur said:
Smells like election prep to me. You can make vague noises about something and drop it like a hot potato after polling day. I've been watching these stories coming out over the last few months and so far I've seen no actual commitment to fixing this problem so they're taking people for fools - again... and they'll probably get away with it.
Then bang the drum and make an issue of it. Just like Nigel Farage does so effectively. We don't live in a dictatorship yet.oakdale said:
It’s not a policy shift, it’s an application/guidance shift (some councils have used the guidance sensibly from the off).Pica-Pica said:
oakdale said:
It’s not a policy shift, it’s an application/guidance shift (some councils have used the guidance sensibly from the off).Well if you say so
BBC News said:
Wales' 20mph zones should be targeted at schools, hospitals and nurseries, the new transport secretary has said.
The 20mph default speed limit applies to 37% of the road network in Wales - although councils can apply for exemptions on stretches.
The 20mph default speed limit applies to 37% of the road network in Wales - although councils can apply for exemptions on stretches.
bigothunter said:
Pica-Pica said:
oakdale said:
It’s not a policy shift, it’s an application/guidance shift (some councils have used the guidance sensibly from the off).Well if you say so
BBC News said:
Wales' 20mph zones should be targeted at schools, hospitals and nurseries, the new transport secretary has said.
The 20mph default speed limit applies to 37% of the road network in Wales - although councils can apply for exemptions on stretches.
The 20mph default speed limit applies to 37% of the road network in Wales - although councils can apply for exemptions on stretches.
As I have said, some councils have applied it sensibly.
Evanivitch said:
Really, their words?
Because the national law is that restricted roads are 20 mph. That's the default regardless of signage. So the placing of new 20 mph signs isn't necessary. Now, if the old 30 mph signs are still in place they would be a reasonable excuse for that stretch of road, but not side streets.
So you now agree it was a blanket change?Because the national law is that restricted roads are 20 mph. That's the default regardless of signage. So the placing of new 20 mph signs isn't necessary. Now, if the old 30 mph signs are still in place they would be a reasonable excuse for that stretch of road, but not side streets.
bennno said:
Evanivitch said:
Really, their words?
Because the national law is that restricted roads are 20 mph. That's the default regardless of signage. So the placing of new 20 mph signs isn't necessary. Now, if the old 30 mph signs are still in place they would be a reasonable excuse for that stretch of road, but not side streets.
So you now agree it was a blanket change?Because the national law is that restricted roads are 20 mph. That's the default regardless of signage. So the placing of new 20 mph signs isn't necessary. Now, if the old 30 mph signs are still in place they would be a reasonable excuse for that stretch of road, but not side streets.
Pica-Pica said:
It is a default. The road shown below is a fast road, but has street lights. So the default would be 20mph without signage. It has signage, namely, the NSL sign. Nothing changed, before the default would have been 30mph, but as then, and as now, the speed limit is 60mph for cars (the NSL).
Thats a weak argument, splitting hairs, effectively it was a blanket change of anything that was 30 was supposed to become 20.Unless where they forgot / run out of money for signs / are now waiting for a review / applied to reverse the change prior to it being implemented etc.
bennno said:
Pica-Pica said:
It is a default. The road shown below is a fast road, but has street lights. So the default would be 20mph without signage. It has signage, namely, the NSL sign. Nothing changed, before the default would have been 30mph, but as then, and as now, the speed limit is 60mph for cars (the NSL).
Thats a weak argument, splitting hairs, effectively it was a blanket change of anything that was 30 was supposed to become 20.Unless where they forgot / run out of money for signs / are now waiting for a review / applied to reverse the change prior to it being implemented etc.
Pica-Pica said:
bennno said:
Pica-Pica said:
It is a default. The road shown below is a fast road, but has street lights. So the default would be 20mph without signage. It has signage, namely, the NSL sign. Nothing changed, before the default would have been 30mph, but as then, and as now, the speed limit is 60mph for cars (the NSL).
Thats a weak argument, splitting hairs, effectively it was a blanket change of anything that was 30 was supposed to become 20.Unless where they forgot / run out of money for signs / are now waiting for a review / applied to reverse the change prior to it being implemented etc.
Substantially limits went from 30mph to 20mph overnight across vast swathes of the road network and pretending like that can all be undone with a couple of retro-fit 30mph signs is a nonsense. The only way to really undo it is to reverse the change itself.
Personally, being against the idea at the beginning and not seeing any good reason to change my mind in the meantime I would be okay with them simply changing it back and can patiently wait while it is undone... if they made a mistake then forgive and move on. Over time various signs and road markings can be phased out / updated...
bennno said:
Evanivitch said:
Really, their words?
Because the national law is that restricted roads are 20 mph. That's the default regardless of signage. So the placing of new 20 mph signs isn't necessary. Now, if the old 30 mph signs are still in place they would be a reasonable excuse for that stretch of road, but not side streets.
So you now agree it was a blanket change?Because the national law is that restricted roads are 20 mph. That's the default regardless of signage. So the placing of new 20 mph signs isn't necessary. Now, if the old 30 mph signs are still in place they would be a reasonable excuse for that stretch of road, but not side streets.
bennno said:
Thats a weak argument, splitting hairs, effectively it was a blanket change of anything that was 30 was supposed to become 20.
Unless where they forgot / run out of money for signs / are now waiting for a review / applied to reverse the change prior to it being implemented etc.
Unless where they forgot / run out of money for signs / are now waiting for a review / applied to reverse the change prior to it being implemented etc.
A blanket with holes? Like a poncho? Or a t shirt? Maybe a mesh vest?
bennno said:
Evanivitch said:
In Wales? The roll out has already happened...
Nope, in Pembs they've said the blanket roll out (words used safety officer in charge of roll out for county) has been stopped pending further central policy review. So its just on many of the main trunk roads, whilst lots of villages such as ours with no footpaths are still at 30mph."The amalgamation order was sealed prior to the 17th September 2023 and signage has since been erected to reflect the new default position of 20mph on restricted streets. The majority of existing 30mph limits have defaulted however a number of locations were proposed exceptions to the order and which were included in the consultation process that took place."
bigothunter said:
Evanivitch said:
Because the national law is that restricted roads are 20 mph. That's the default regardless of signage. So the placing of new 20 mph signs isn't necessary.
Wales - the land where 30 limit signs actually mean 20 
Evanivitch said:
bennno said:
Thats a weak argument, splitting hairs, effectively it was a blanket change of anything that was 30 was supposed to become 20.
Unless where they forgot / run out of money for signs / are now waiting for a review / applied to reverse the change prior to it being implemented etc.
Unless where they forgot / run out of money for signs / are now waiting for a review / applied to reverse the change prior to it being implemented etc.
A blanket with holes? Like a poncho? Or a t shirt? Maybe a mesh vest?
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