Met Police Jaguar S Types
Discussion
XR said:
P5BNij said:
I was watching The Gold Robbers this week, another Police S Type KYU 388DPoor screen grabs
If the TV series was made in '69, it was likely that it had recently been 'de-mobbed' from service (the KYU cars were in the first batch bought by the Met) and would have gone to auction in around '68 or early '69, so was likely picked up by the TV company, and re-fitted with blue light etc. for the filming.
aeropilot said:
XR said:
P5BNij said:
I was watching The Gold Robbers this week, another Police S Type KYU 388DPoor screen grabs
If the TV series was made in '69, it was likely that it had recently been 'de-mobbed' from service (the KYU cars were in the first batch bought by the Met) and would have gone to auction in around '68 or early '69, so was likely picked up by the TV company, and re-fitted with blue light etc. for the filming.
KYU388D became quite the film and TV star following it's retirement as a police vehicle. It is a genuine Met car, but in service, would probably have been fitted with the central blue roof light only, not the Mickey Mouse floodlights, and certainly not the boot-mounted "Police" sign either, they were a feature of Traffic Cars only. It appeared in several TV shows and films made in the late 1960s, and even managed to star in one episode of Doctor Who!
Interesting to see the speedometer indicating the absolute maximum speed of these cars with the 4.09 differential. S-Types were always fitted with a 140 mph speedometer, not a 120mph one, so this is probably a mocked-up shot. My only surviving colleague who actually drove these S-Types operationally, tells me that there was a strip of red "Dymotape" stuck to the speedometer at 105mph. This speed was not to be reached or exceeded for more than five minutes, or the engine would suffer catastrophic damage, despite the BP Super Visco-Static oil that was exclusively reserved for use in the S-Type Jaguars, lesser cars deserving a lesser oil (MP Number One oil, still around in my service).
Interesting to see the speedometer indicating the absolute maximum speed of these cars with the 4.09 differential. S-Types were always fitted with a 140 mph speedometer, not a 120mph one, so this is probably a mocked-up shot. My only surviving colleague who actually drove these S-Types operationally, tells me that there was a strip of red "Dymotape" stuck to the speedometer at 105mph. This speed was not to be reached or exceeded for more than five minutes, or the engine would suffer catastrophic damage, despite the BP Super Visco-Static oil that was exclusively reserved for use in the S-Type Jaguars, lesser cars deserving a lesser oil (MP Number One oil, still around in my service).
Edited by Minsterjagman on Tuesday 2nd January 07:16
Edited by Minsterjagman on Tuesday 2nd January 07:24
Minsterjagman said:
Interesting to see the speedometer indicating the absolute maximum speed of these cars with the 4.09 differential. S-Types were always fitted with a 140 mph speedometer, not a 120mph one, so this is probably a mocked-up shot. My only surviving colleague who actually drove these S-Types operationally, tells me that there was a strip of red "Dymotape" stuck to the speedometer at 105mph. This speed was not to be reached or exceeded for more than five minutes, or the engine would suffer catastrophic damage, despite the BP Super Visco-Static oil that was exclusively reserved for use in the S-Type Jaguars, lesser cars deserving a lesser oil (MP Number One oil, still around in my service).
I can remember my Dad telling me a story from the S-Type era about the Ruislip area car (I think that was Xray 6, but I can't remember whether the Uxbridge area car was Xray 6 and Ruislip was Xray-5?) but anyway....lets go with my memory of being Xray 6, and Ruislip's patch included the USAF base at Ruislip, which was adjacent to West Ruislip tube station, and on night duty the area car used to stop of at the Guard Room there, as the very accommodating USAF guys would provide coffee and yank donuts etc 
. One night the USAF Mil Police were there with their yank patrol car (would guess either a Plymouth Satellite or Ford Galaxy at the time) and talk got around to whose car was best/fastest etc., and bragging and bench racing ended up in a challenge at 3am in the morning along the main road past the base........ 
It was 45 years ago now since Dad told me that story, but I think the yanks had the legs on the Jag off the line, even with that Jag diff ratio, and the Jag's top speed limit was reached (which I now know was not as high I thought at the time) and I do recall Dad saying superior driving skills from the Class one driver <cough> resulted in a draw being declared 
Oh how times have changed.
aeropilot said:
Minsterjagman said:
Interesting to see the speedometer indicating the absolute maximum speed of these cars with the 4.09 differential. S-Types were always fitted with a 140 mph speedometer, not a 120mph one, so this is probably a mocked-up shot. My only surviving colleague who actually drove these S-Types operationally, tells me that there was a strip of red "Dymotape" stuck to the speedometer at 105mph. This speed was not to be reached or exceeded for more than five minutes, or the engine would suffer catastrophic damage, despite the BP Super Visco-Static oil that was exclusively reserved for use in the S-Type Jaguars, lesser cars deserving a lesser oil (MP Number One oil, still around in my service).
I can remember my Dad telling me a story from the S-Type era about the Ruislip area car (I think that was Xray 6, but I can't remember whether the Uxbridge area car was Xray 6 and Ruislip was Xray-5?) but anyway....lets go with my memory of being Xray 6, and Ruislip's patch included the USAF base at Ruislip, which was adjacent to West Ruislip tube station, and on night duty the area car used to stop of at the Guard Room there, as the very accommodating USAF guys would provide coffee and yank donuts etc . One night the USAF Mil Police were there with their yank patrol car (would guess either a Plymouth Satellite or Ford Galaxy at the time) and talk got around to whose car was best/fastest etc., and bragging and bench racing ended up in a challenge at 3am in the morning along the main road past the base........ It was 45 years ago now since Dad told me that story, but I think the yanks had the legs on the Jag off the line, even with that Jag diff ratio, and the Jag's top speed limit was reached (which I now know was not as high I thought at the time) and I do recall Dad saying superior driving skills from the Class one driver <cough> resulted in a draw being declared Oh how times have changed.
Mind Blown 
LanceRS said:
aeropilot said:
Minsterjagman said:
Interesting to see the speedometer indicating the absolute maximum speed of these cars with the 4.09 differential. S-Types were always fitted with a 140 mph speedometer, not a 120mph one, so this is probably a mocked-up shot. My only surviving colleague who actually drove these S-Types operationally, tells me that there was a strip of red "Dymotape" stuck to the speedometer at 105mph. This speed was not to be reached or exceeded for more than five minutes, or the engine would suffer catastrophic damage, despite the BP Super Visco-Static oil that was exclusively reserved for use in the S-Type Jaguars, lesser cars deserving a lesser oil (MP Number One oil, still around in my service).
I can remember my Dad telling me a story from the S-Type era about the Ruislip area car (I think that was Xray 6, but I can't remember whether the Uxbridge area car was Xray 6 and Ruislip was Xray-5?) but anyway....lets go with my memory of being Xray 6, and Ruislip's patch included the USAF base at Ruislip, which was adjacent to West Ruislip tube station, and on night duty the area car used to stop of at the Guard Room there, as the very accommodating USAF guys would provide coffee and yank donuts etc . One night the USAF Mil Police were there with their yank patrol car (would guess either a Plymouth Satellite or Ford Galaxy at the time) and talk got around to whose car was best/fastest etc., and bragging and bench racing ended up in a challenge at 3am in the morning along the main road past the base........ It was 45 years ago now since Dad told me that story, but I think the yanks had the legs on the Jag off the line, even with that Jag diff ratio, and the Jag's top speed limit was reached (which I now know was not as high I thought at the time) and I do recall Dad saying superior driving skills from the Class one driver <cough> resulted in a draw being declared Oh how times have changed.
GoodOlBoy said:
Any idea how the S types were viewed against the Mk2 police cars at the time ?
I don't know if any other UK forces outside the Met and City Police used the S-Type? I don't know whether the Met ever trialled the Mk.2 when they were trialling the S-Type? Don't forget the Met didn't completely equip the force with the S-Type, as some of the inner London Divisions still continued to use the Wolesley 6/110's up to at least 1970, when the Rover P6's (and later the Triumph 2.5Pi as well) were first bought and started to replace both the 6/110 and S-Type fleets from 1970 onwards.The Met did use the Mk2 Jaguar, but only as unmarked cars used by squads, "Q"-cars, and at the Driving School. Quite why they favoured the S-Type over the Mk2 for marked operational use is a mystery to me. They are considerably heavier, slightly slower and more costly to buy and run. The only real advantage over the Mk2 is a bigger boot, and a small increase in back seat leg and headroom. The handling, when compared with the Mk2, appears to be a contentious issue, that I will not go into here! Most other forces which used Jaguars at that time, opted for the Mk2.
Sussex Police bought at least two S-Types, neither of which appear to have survived., I also have records of three more bought by the police in Edinburgh, all 3.4s with manual non-overdrive gearboxes. I have the chassis numbers of these known Scottish cars, but not the registration numbers, so they may, or may not, still be out there.
Interesting to note that all three Scottish S-Types were black, one had red "Ambla" (plastic) upholstery, and the other two had tan leather,.an indulgence that the Met would have never have tolerated. The precise specification of the Scottish cars is unknown, as compared to the Met cars, due to lack of known survivors, or even period photographs. Perhaps someone can enlighten me?
Sussex Police bought at least two S-Types, neither of which appear to have survived., I also have records of three more bought by the police in Edinburgh, all 3.4s with manual non-overdrive gearboxes. I have the chassis numbers of these known Scottish cars, but not the registration numbers, so they may, or may not, still be out there.
Interesting to note that all three Scottish S-Types were black, one had red "Ambla" (plastic) upholstery, and the other two had tan leather,.an indulgence that the Met would have never have tolerated. The precise specification of the Scottish cars is unknown, as compared to the Met cars, due to lack of known survivors, or even period photographs. Perhaps someone can enlighten me?
Edited by Minsterjagman on Wednesday 3rd January 10:14
Minsterjagman said:
The Met did use the Mk2 Jaguar, but only as unmarked cars used by squads, "Q"-cars, and at the Driving School. Quite why they favoured the S-Type over the Mk2 for marked operational use is a mystery to me. They are considerably heavier, slightly slower and more costly to buy and run. The only real advantage over the Mk2 is a bigger boot, and a small increase in back seat leg and headroom. The handling, when compared with the Mk2, appears to be a contentious issue, that I will not go into here!
I know my Dad said that, many of the drivers he WO'd for all preferred the 6/110 over the S-Type, but many had long association with the 6/110, the previous 6/99 and the 6/90 before that, so some sort of bias can be allowed for.I knew one (now no longer with us) who had driven 6/99, 6/110, S-Type, Rover P6 & Triumph 2.5Pi, in service before retiring in late 70's and for him, as an area car the Jag was the worst in that role, which at the time as a car mad yoof about to start driving, and who had fond childhood memories of the big black Jag's.....I hated him for saying it
He did say, that Traf Pol drivers of the day were not so critical of the S-Type, so It maybe that was a more suited role for it at the time.Years later of course and as much as I still have those fond childhood memories I can understand the reasons why he didn't like them....too tail happy was the main issue most had with them (my guess is Powerlok diffs with low ratio and auto trans was the issue)
Edited by aeropilot on Wednesday 3rd January 10:22
aeropilot said:
I can remember my Dad telling me a story from the S-Type era about the Ruislip area car (I think that was Xray 6, but I can't remember whether the Uxbridge area car was Xray 6 and Ruislip was Xray-5?) but anyway....lets go with my memory of being Xray 6, and Ruislip's patch included the USAF base at Ruislip, which was adjacent to West Ruislip tube station, and on night duty the area car used to stop of at the Guard Room there, as the very accommodating USAF guys would provide coffee and yank donuts etc . One night the USAF Mil Police were there with their yank patrol car (would guess either a Plymouth Satellite or Ford Galaxy at the time)
A basic 1966 Galaxie 500 could have a 390 and they were not shy. There was a 427 as well plus a similar-ish 428 in police interceptors with 300+ bhp. Ford's Canadian factory built Galaxies in RHD and a few ended up here, imported as new cars. I wonder if the USAF cars were RHD? . One night the USAF Mil Police were there with their yank patrol car (would guess either a Plymouth Satellite or Ford Galaxy at the time) I-am-the-reverend said:
aeropilot said:
I can remember my Dad telling me a story from the S-Type era about the Ruislip area car (I think that was Xray 6, but I can't remember whether the Uxbridge area car was Xray 6 and Ruislip was Xray-5?) but anyway....lets go with my memory of being Xray 6, and Ruislip's patch included the USAF base at Ruislip, which was adjacent to West Ruislip tube station, and on night duty the area car used to stop of at the Guard Room there, as the very accommodating USAF guys would provide coffee and yank donuts etc . One night the USAF Mil Police were there with their yank patrol car (would guess either a Plymouth Satellite or Ford Galaxy at the time)
A basic 1966 Galaxie 500 could have a 390 and they were not shy. There was a 427 as well plus a similar-ish 428 in police interceptors with 300+ bhp. Ford's Canadian factory built Galaxies in RHD and a few ended up here, imported as new cars. I wonder if the USAF cars were RHD? . One night the USAF Mil Police were there with their yank patrol car (would guess either a Plymouth Satellite or Ford Galaxy at the time) And no, all US armed services vehicles used in UK were and still are all LHD.
LanceRS said:
A quick question for anyone who knows.
I saw a clip of a programme this morning from about 1990, filmed in and around Southall. The officers had XS shoulder numbers but were using the call sign X-ray 8. My understanding was that the call signs only went up to X3.
XS was the code for Southall nick (XG was Greenford and XW was Norwood Green, can't remember the other X div station codes)I saw a clip of a programme this morning from about 1990, filmed in and around Southall. The officers had XS shoulder numbers but were using the call sign X-ray 8. My understanding was that the call signs only went up to X3.
They must have changed the shoulder numbers only a few years before, as my father retired in 1986, and his shoulder number was still just the X and 3 numbers when he retired, and his 'base' station was XS.
When he retired in '86, there was still just the 6 area cars with call signs Xray 1 to Xray 6, which had existed from the divisional boundary changes in 1965/66 up to mid 1980's.
Xray 1 was Acton
Xray 2 was Ealing
Xray 3 was Southall
Xray 4 was Hayes
Xray 5 was Uxbridge (I think)
Xray 6 was Rusilip (I think)
My memory isn't quite clear on the last two, it could be that Xray 5 was Ruislip and Xray 6 was Uxbridge. I'm sure the list above is the right way around though.
Xray 0 was the call sign of the Dog Van.
Sadly, I can't comment on what happened after 1986, although I do know there were lots of changes to numbers call signs, beat areas and such in the 5+ years after my Dad retired.
A (very!) brief glimpse of a black Police S-Type at 4m 30sec in this 1968 'Look At Life' film...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb6STA5eHI8&t=...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb6STA5eHI8&t=...
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