Met Police Jaguar S Types
Discussion
Well, you are almost right, but not quite!
The very first Met Police S-types were registered DYY343-354C in 1965. These twelve cars were all allocated to the Hendon Driving School for evaluation purposes. As far as I can ascertain, these were standard production cars, and would have had normal trim, tachometer, bonnet mascots etc. On the basis of what Hendon thought of them, (must have been favourable), the first order for S-Types was then placed, (KYU360-420D). Some of these cars were, of course, allocated for driver training at Hendon, while most were fitted out to be Area Cars.
As far as I can see, none of this first operational order were used by Traffic Patrol. I have found no records of white cars in this range, but it must be kept in mind that Traffic cars were also black up until about this time, so this might not be correct.
The next order (NVB250-350E) were fairly evenly either black for Area Cars or white for Traffic Patrol. Another thing to bear in mind is that when relying on black and white photographs, what appears black may be any dark colour. Driving School cars were, in my service at least, often different colours from operational vehicles.
Nearly all the rest were SUU390-499F, WGK430-500G and some others which did not seem to have been part of large orders, for example SYO834F was a black Driving School car (Fleet number 634), NYL574E was a Traffic Car (Fleet number 608) as was NYL569E, NUW988E was another Traffic Car (Fleet number 619) which enjoyed a brief film career following its retirement. Google "Angels of Terror" a ghastly low budget horror, the high point for me being the Jaguar!
Of those first dozen cars, DVLA only has any record of DYY353C. It is shown as red with a 5735cc engine! As it has had no registration or licencing activity since late 1992, then it seems unlikely still to be extant. Unless one of you knows otherwise!
The very first Met Police S-types were registered DYY343-354C in 1965. These twelve cars were all allocated to the Hendon Driving School for evaluation purposes. As far as I can ascertain, these were standard production cars, and would have had normal trim, tachometer, bonnet mascots etc. On the basis of what Hendon thought of them, (must have been favourable), the first order for S-Types was then placed, (KYU360-420D). Some of these cars were, of course, allocated for driver training at Hendon, while most were fitted out to be Area Cars.
As far as I can see, none of this first operational order were used by Traffic Patrol. I have found no records of white cars in this range, but it must be kept in mind that Traffic cars were also black up until about this time, so this might not be correct.
The next order (NVB250-350E) were fairly evenly either black for Area Cars or white for Traffic Patrol. Another thing to bear in mind is that when relying on black and white photographs, what appears black may be any dark colour. Driving School cars were, in my service at least, often different colours from operational vehicles.
Nearly all the rest were SUU390-499F, WGK430-500G and some others which did not seem to have been part of large orders, for example SYO834F was a black Driving School car (Fleet number 634), NYL574E was a Traffic Car (Fleet number 608) as was NYL569E, NUW988E was another Traffic Car (Fleet number 619) which enjoyed a brief film career following its retirement. Google "Angels of Terror" a ghastly low budget horror, the high point for me being the Jaguar!
Of those first dozen cars, DVLA only has any record of DYY353C. It is shown as red with a 5735cc engine! As it has had no registration or licencing activity since late 1992, then it seems unlikely still to be extant. Unless one of you knows otherwise!
Edited by Minsterjagman on Saturday 29th October 13:07
Minsterjagman said:
Well, you are almost right, but not quite!
The very first Met Police S-types were registered DYY343-354C in 1965. These twelve cars were all allocated to the Hendon Driving School for evaluation purposes. As far as I can ascertain, these were standard production cars, and would have had normal trim, tachometer, bonnet mascots etc. On the basis of what Hendon thought of them, (must have been favourable), the first order for S-Types was then placed, (KYU360-420D). Some of these cars were, of course, allocated for driver training at Hendon, while most were fitted out to be Area Cars.
As far as I can see, none of this first operational order were used by Traffic Patrol. I have found no records of white cars in this range, but it must be kept in mind that Traffic cars were also black up until about this time, so this might not be correct.
The next order (NVB250-350E) were fairly evenly either black for Area Cars and white for Traffic Patrol. Another thing to bear in mind is that when relying on black and white photographs, what appears black may be any dark colour. Driving School cars were, in my service at least, often different colours from operational vehicles.
I did mean from the first batch of Met spec cars, rather than the evaluation cars, which as you say were production cars.The very first Met Police S-types were registered DYY343-354C in 1965. These twelve cars were all allocated to the Hendon Driving School for evaluation purposes. As far as I can ascertain, these were standard production cars, and would have had normal trim, tachometer, bonnet mascots etc. On the basis of what Hendon thought of them, (must have been favourable), the first order for S-Types was then placed, (KYU360-420D). Some of these cars were, of course, allocated for driver training at Hendon, while most were fitted out to be Area Cars.
As far as I can see, none of this first operational order were used by Traffic Patrol. I have found no records of white cars in this range, but it must be kept in mind that Traffic cars were also black up until about this time, so this might not be correct.
The next order (NVB250-350E) were fairly evenly either black for Area Cars and white for Traffic Patrol. Another thing to bear in mind is that when relying on black and white photographs, what appears black may be any dark colour. Driving School cars were, in my service at least, often different colours from operational vehicles.
While indeed, as you say the Hendon Driving School cars in later years were not service colours, not sure that was the case with the Jag's which were likely all in Met spec, so probably all black, which given they were specially built at Browns Lane in batches (although black was a factory body colour in the first few years of S-Type production (white wasn't) when the Met first ordered them, black was no longer a factory colour IIRC) My very vague recollections of a couple of childhood visits to Hendon around 67/68 with my Dad was a garage full of black cars still, including the knackered old 'wrecks' of Wolesley 6/99's being used on the skid pan.
The two unmarked driving school cars in the photo taken on the old Hendon runway, clearly shows KYU 418D & HYU 419D to be in Met spec without bonnet mascots etc., although the rather odd L plates are obscuring the offside grille/lamp....
Very different to the various production colour shades on the 2500Pi's and P6 3500's used for the fleet of driving school cars in the 70's.
Well, on the subject of colours, there may be more diversity than you think.
I have gone through all the likely registration number combinations, and have found quite a few red, green and blue S-Types which were Met cars once upon a time. Now, it is true that most of these cars were bought at auction by dealers following their disposal, and the first thing those dealers were likely to do was to hide the car's past as much as possible. The market for a high-mileage, thrashed, low-spec Jaguar was far less buoyant than that for a civvy-spec version with all it's polished wood, leather seating, and full compliment of instruments, even if the car was less than three years old at the time.
The quickest way to achieve this was a puff-over in another colour. Later on, it became easier to obtain seats, wood and other parts from earlier cars. Apply for a duplicate logbook, and it is job done.
So, some of the cars remaining on the DVLA database have, certainly, had their bodywork colours changed, but not all.
On my very first day at Training School, my class were all taken to the cinema, within the Peel Centre, and shown a recruiting film imaginatively entitled "Policeman". It ran for about twenty-five minutes, and followed the earlier career of a young P.C. up to his posting to Kingston Police Station ("V.D". in those days!). In the latter part of the film, the P.C. is daft enough to approach a gang of armed villains who are just about to rob Barclays Bank in Ham, (actually on Richmond's ground). They make off, unsurprisingly, in their S-Type, KYU363D, a grey or green, (hard to tell as the film print is faded in every copy that I have seen) Driving School or Q-car. As far as I can tell this car had the fleet number 668.
Luckily, the crew of "Victor Two", Kingston's Area Car, another S-Type Jaguar, SUU412F, fleet number 1812, are soon hot on their heels, and the crims are all apprehended at Kingston Power Station, just next to the Thames.
So, we can deduce from this that some Met S-Types were colours other than black or white, unless KYU363D was the only exception, which I doubt very much.
After this unexpected cinematic interlude, we were all bombarded with questions about what we had just seen, no doubt to test our powers of observation. We all said how stupid it was to approach armed bank robbers, with only a stick of wood, and before backup arrived, but the P.C. was only following the script!
The P.C. in the film was a real relief officer, who was based at Kingston at the time. About a year after the film was made, he was stabbed to death while making an off-duty arrest on Wimbledon Common.
I have gone through all the likely registration number combinations, and have found quite a few red, green and blue S-Types which were Met cars once upon a time. Now, it is true that most of these cars were bought at auction by dealers following their disposal, and the first thing those dealers were likely to do was to hide the car's past as much as possible. The market for a high-mileage, thrashed, low-spec Jaguar was far less buoyant than that for a civvy-spec version with all it's polished wood, leather seating, and full compliment of instruments, even if the car was less than three years old at the time.
The quickest way to achieve this was a puff-over in another colour. Later on, it became easier to obtain seats, wood and other parts from earlier cars. Apply for a duplicate logbook, and it is job done.
So, some of the cars remaining on the DVLA database have, certainly, had their bodywork colours changed, but not all.
On my very first day at Training School, my class were all taken to the cinema, within the Peel Centre, and shown a recruiting film imaginatively entitled "Policeman". It ran for about twenty-five minutes, and followed the earlier career of a young P.C. up to his posting to Kingston Police Station ("V.D". in those days!). In the latter part of the film, the P.C. is daft enough to approach a gang of armed villains who are just about to rob Barclays Bank in Ham, (actually on Richmond's ground). They make off, unsurprisingly, in their S-Type, KYU363D, a grey or green, (hard to tell as the film print is faded in every copy that I have seen) Driving School or Q-car. As far as I can tell this car had the fleet number 668.
Luckily, the crew of "Victor Two", Kingston's Area Car, another S-Type Jaguar, SUU412F, fleet number 1812, are soon hot on their heels, and the crims are all apprehended at Kingston Power Station, just next to the Thames.
So, we can deduce from this that some Met S-Types were colours other than black or white, unless KYU363D was the only exception, which I doubt very much.
After this unexpected cinematic interlude, we were all bombarded with questions about what we had just seen, no doubt to test our powers of observation. We all said how stupid it was to approach armed bank robbers, with only a stick of wood, and before backup arrived, but the P.C. was only following the script!
The P.C. in the film was a real relief officer, who was based at Kingston at the time. About a year after the film was made, he was stabbed to death while making an off-duty arrest on Wimbledon Common.
Edited by Minsterjagman on Saturday 29th October 13:09
Minsterjagman said:
We all said how stupid it was to approach armed bank robbers, with only a stick of wood, and before backup arrived, but the P.C. was only following the script!
My late father and a fellow officer did just that in Oct 1973 in Hayes, West London and both won the Queens Commendation for Brave Conduct (as did a 3rd officer who was off-duty at the time)You must be very proud of your father, and he and his fellow officers certainly deserved their commendations.
I still remember the instructors, at the end of the film, telling us that that particular scene was a seriously flawed part of the production, and to wait for backup, should we ever find ourselves in such a situation. The P.C. in the film, (and we should remember it was only a recruiting film, not reality) was alone, and the Jag contained at least three tooled-up blaggers.
I still remember the instructors, at the end of the film, telling us that that particular scene was a seriously flawed part of the production, and to wait for backup, should we ever find ourselves in such a situation. The P.C. in the film, (and we should remember it was only a recruiting film, not reality) was alone, and the Jag contained at least three tooled-up blaggers.
Minsterjagman said:
You must be very proud of your father, and he and his fellow officers certainly deserved their commendations.
I still remember the instructors, at the end of the film, telling us that that particular scene was a seriously flawed part of the production, and to wait for backup, should we ever find ourselves in such a situation. The P.C. in the film, (and we should remember it was only a recruiting film, not reality) was alone, and the Jag contained at least three tooled-up blaggers.
The blagger was solo, and an Army deserter with a loaded, chambered and cocked SLR, but my Dad's oppo was horrified when Dad made his move on the guy to disarm him and thus had to assist (as he was expecting they would be following the guidelines as you described)I still remember the instructors, at the end of the film, telling us that that particular scene was a seriously flawed part of the production, and to wait for backup, should we ever find ourselves in such a situation. The P.C. in the film, (and we should remember it was only a recruiting film, not reality) was alone, and the Jag contained at least three tooled-up blaggers.
My Dad was ex-Army though and was still winding George up about that almost 30 years later when my old man was dying of cancer, and George used to visit my Dad. George insisted on being a pall bearer at Dad's funeral.
That is a heartwarming end to a sad story. When I went to Training School, I had just completed a five-month posting as a Cadet to Fulham ("F.F") on C-relief. Although it was many years since the "Foxtrot 1-1" incident in 1966, blokes still spoke about it often, and many remembered working with the officers shot that day. It made a big impression on me.
Minsterjagman said:
That is a heartwarming end to a sad story. When I went to Training School, I had just completed a five-month posting as a Cadet to Fulham ("F.F") on C-relief. Although it was many years since the "Foxtrot 1-1" incident in 1966, blokes still spoke about it often, and many remembered working with the officers shot that day. It made a big impression on me.
I was only 3 but vividly remember it & Dad coming home from duty that day. He knew one of them, IIRC he went through Peel House training with one of them 10 years before......I think it was the DS. I also vividly remember taking the dogs for a walk on the Scrubs in that hot summer of '76, parking in Braybrook St for a reason I didn't twig at the time, as it was far from the usual place and some distance from home, but Dad was very pensive, and it turned out it was the day of the 10th Anniversary in Aug '76, and I remember we walked up the road to the spot and stopped for a while before heading back to the car.I'm glad Dad never lived to see Roberts released, he had always said no HS would ever dare to release him and he would die in prison. He didn't factor in the UK's worst ever HS.
About 10 years ago, I became friends with a couple from Essex, and it turned out she had grown up in the next road to Braybrook St., and was hanging around with her friends in the road chatting just before heading to her aunt who lived at the other end of Braybrook St (she was about 13/14 at the time) and she heard the shots.
SUU 491F was a driving school car. This is the photo I found taken at Hendon with the the reg numbers of all four jags clearly visible. Uploading the picture onto here has lost some of the quality but the car on the end is SUU 491F, I’m happy to email the better quality version onto anyone who wants it.
Jim-mbo4v said:
SUU 491F was a driving school car. This is the photo I found taken at Hendon with the the reg numbers of all four jags clearly visible. Uploading the picture onto here has lost some of the quality but the car on the end is SUU 491F, I’m happy to email the better quality version onto anyone who wants it.
Conclusive proof finally 
Shame the US poster and current owner has gone AWOL.
Also, one of the original 12 x evaluation cars, 2nd one along, DYY 365C and clearly production spec, as indicated by Minsterjagman in a post above, with mascot and both driving lamps clearly visible. It must have been pretty knackered by then given the use (or should I say abuse
) they got.aeropilot said:
Jim-mbo4v said:
SUU 491F was a driving school car. This is the photo I found taken at Hendon with the the reg numbers of all four jags clearly visible. Uploading the picture onto here has lost some of the quality but the car on the end is SUU 491F, I’m happy to email the better quality version onto anyone who wants it.
Conclusive proof finally Shame the US poster and current owner has gone AWOL.
Also, one of the original 12 x evaluation cars, 2nd one along, DYY 365C and clearly production spec, as indicated by Minsterjagman in a post above, with mascot and both driving lamps clearly visible. It must have been pretty knackered by then given the use (or should I say abuse
) they got.Hopefully the US owner will see this
Very sorry to have to report that Clark Westneet, the owner of SUU491F, passed away some time ago. I had heard this from David Reilly, who runs the International S-Type Jaguar Register, in the U.S. but I thought that I had better confirm this with him, as the posts from Clark seemed to be more recent than I would have expected.
Who now owns his car, where it is, or what condition it is now in, I do not know.
If anybody out there does know, then please do share!
Who now owns his car, where it is, or what condition it is now in, I do not know.
If anybody out there does know, then please do share!
Minsterjagman said:
Very sorry to have to report that Clark Westneet, the owner of SUU491F, passed away some time ago. I had heard this from David Reilly, who runs the International S-Type Jaguar Register, in the U.S. but I thought that I had better confirm this with him, as the posts from Clark seemed to be more recent than I would have expected.
Who now owns his car, where it is, or what condition it is now in, I do not know.
If anybody out there does know, then please do share!
Yes, Clark's first post was in this thread was only on April 21st this year, with his last post on 1st May.....so not even 4 months ago...??Who now owns his car, where it is, or what condition it is now in, I do not know.
If anybody out there does know, then please do share!
Jim-mbo4v said:
SUU 491F was a driving school car. This is the photo I found taken at Hendon with the the reg numbers of all four jags clearly visible. Uploading the picture onto here has lost some of the quality but the car on the end is SUU 491F, I’m happy to email the better quality version onto anyone who wants it.
Good photo, which disproves my earlier pists (#13) on page 1, that the first police S-Types were D-regd East Sussex ones.Are those Vauxhall Viscounts next to the S-Types?
TarquinMX5 said:
Jim-mbo4v said:
SUU 491F was a driving school car. This is the photo I found taken at Hendon with the the reg numbers of all four jags clearly visible. Uploading the picture onto here has lost some of the quality but the car on the end is SUU 491F, I’m happy to email the better quality version onto anyone who wants it.
Good photo, which disproves my earlier pists (#13) on page 1, that the first police S-Types were D-regd East Sussex ones.Are those Vauxhall Viscounts next to the S-Types?
Edited by aeropilot on Friday 19th August 21:01
The car to the left of SUU491F (as you view it) is a Vauxhall Cresta PC. The Viscount had a black grille, was the top of the Vauxhall range, and was loaded with all sorts of luxurious extras that the Met would never dream of paying for, such as electric windows. Other than that, it was basically the same car. There were a few Crestas on the Driving School fleet at different times, but they were never used operationally, as far as I can ascertain.
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