Discussion
Hello all,
I’ve been a long time lurker on this forum and thought I’d finally register
I’m a big fan of the E39 M5 and _really_ want one. But it won’t be until I save up some more funds and complete further research. I have a few questions which I was hoping you guys could help me with. I've read up on different articles, forums, etc online but opinions are varied. Here goes:
Facelift or pre-facelift - I hear the pre-facelift versions had Vanos issues but this can be resolved. How much would it cost? Any other pros and cons between the two?
Reliability – Any common problems/issues to look out for? Tell-tale signs of problems to keep an eye out for?
Mileage – Should I try to source one with sub 100k on the clock? Would examples with over 100k still be sought after?
Running costs – If driven economically (which I’m guessing isn’t easy at first), what kind of mpg can I expect on local journeys? And how about motorway driving at around cough*80mph*cough?
Servicing/Maintenance – I believe when the cars first purchased, an initial check/inspection is carried out after a few thousand miles. Is this normally documented and what does it consist of? Also, what are likely costs for insp 1 or 2 if I were to find a specialist/indie? (I’m based in Coventry)
That’s about it for now. Apologies for all the questions. Would really appreciate any help!
Thanks!
I’ve been a long time lurker on this forum and thought I’d finally register
I’m a big fan of the E39 M5 and _really_ want one. But it won’t be until I save up some more funds and complete further research. I have a few questions which I was hoping you guys could help me with. I've read up on different articles, forums, etc online but opinions are varied. Here goes:
Facelift or pre-facelift - I hear the pre-facelift versions had Vanos issues but this can be resolved. How much would it cost? Any other pros and cons between the two?
Reliability – Any common problems/issues to look out for? Tell-tale signs of problems to keep an eye out for?
Mileage – Should I try to source one with sub 100k on the clock? Would examples with over 100k still be sought after?
Running costs – If driven economically (which I’m guessing isn’t easy at first), what kind of mpg can I expect on local journeys? And how about motorway driving at around cough*80mph*cough?
Servicing/Maintenance – I believe when the cars first purchased, an initial check/inspection is carried out after a few thousand miles. Is this normally documented and what does it consist of? Also, what are likely costs for insp 1 or 2 if I were to find a specialist/indie? (I’m based in Coventry)
That’s about it for now. Apologies for all the questions. Would really appreciate any help!
Thanks!
Sufyaan said:
Running costs – If driven economically (which I’m guessing isn’t easy at first), what kind of mpg can I expect on local journeys? And how about motorway driving at around cough*80mph*cough?
Welcome. I did a 'local' trip last weekend home from my parents house. I reset the mpg computer as I was unusually going to take it sedately as everyone was panicking at the petrol stations and I wanted to eke out what I had left in the tank until all the fuss had died down! Probably 15 miles along country roads and the odd bumble through 30 mph limits in towns and villages but no extended stops at traffic lights, etc. and the trip computer read 28.5 mpg when I got home. If you are just cruising along the motorway you should see 25+ mpg, and I once got just over 30 mpg on a long motorway only trip (including towing a trailer, but that is what helped avoid any spirited bursts of speed!) I rarely venture into towns in it but I would think you might get only 15-20 mpg there.Sufyaan said:
Servicing/Maintenance – I believe when the cars first purchased, an initial check/inspection is carried out after a few thousand miles. Is this normally documented and what does it consist of? Also, what are likely costs for insp 1 or 2 if I were to find a specialist/indie? (I’m based in Coventry)
There should be an initial running in inspection and oil change at 1200 miles. This should be recorded in the service history book.Thanks for the prompt reply! I guess that isnt too bad considering the type of car it is. As my place of work is only a 20min walk, most of my miles will be covered by the weekly supermarket run, local errands/'taxi' service and the occasional trip on the motorway.
So tempted to jump in and make a purchase soon but need to save up lol. Just hope I can find a good, well maintained example when the time comes.
Any UK based M Power or M5 forums I can register too?
So tempted to jump in and make a purchase soon but need to save up lol. Just hope I can find a good, well maintained example when the time comes.
Any UK based M Power or M5 forums I can register too?
Firstly, welcome aboard - you clearly have excellent taste in cars 
Have had a crack at your answers just off the top of my head (in italics below) but a bit more research is required I think - get on over to M5board.com - LOTS on there about every E39 M5 issue under the sun, and do some searching on here.
Have had a crack at your answers just off the top of my head (in italics below) but a bit more research is required I think
- get on over to M5board.com - LOTS on there about every E39 M5 issue under the sun, and do some searching on here.Sufyaan said:
Hello all,
I’ve been a long time lurker on this forum and thought I’d finally register
I’m a big fan of the E39 M5 and _really_ want one. But it won’t be until I save up some more funds and complete further research. I have a few questions which I was hoping you guys could help me with. I've read up on different articles, forums, etc online but opinions are varied. Here goes:
Facelift or pre-facelift - I hear the pre-facelift versions had Vanos issues but this can be resolved. How much would it cost? Any other pros and cons between the two?
No huge differences, couple of engine tweaks, but it's not the case (as far as I can tell) that pre-facelift cars have Vanos issues. They have more Vanos noise due to a pump system that was introduced to retain the high-pressure oil, but that's not linked with running problems IIRC. Also, I believe there was a re-design of the Piston rings around 2000, which had the effect of reducing oil consumption, but again, it's not an "issue" as such - pre- and post- facelift cars use oil.
I went for a facelift car because they look better - rear lights, xenons, wide-screen nav, front parking sensors, and I thought it'd hold its value a bit better. I test drove pre- and post- facelift cars, and they drive identically. You won't be disappointed in a pre-facelift in terms of the driving experience though, and they're pretty fully-loaded as standard.
Reliability – Any common problems/issues to look out for? Tell-tale signs of problems to keep an eye out for?
Rust - commonly on and below the bootlid but check everywhere. Excessive Vanos noise. Tyres and brakes are expensive, so make sure they're in good nick. Check the MAFs as they can cause running issues - use the OBD (see M5board for full MAF checking advice) and make sure the sport button works. It's worth getting an indy to check over the car before purchase, and plug in a diagnostic machine and check for error codes.
Mileage – Should I try to source one with sub 100k on the clock? Would examples with over 100k still be sought after?
Don't discount 100k+ miles cars - there's a lot doing very strongly indeed. Mileage isn't an issue, buy on condition and maintenance, but mileage will of course affect the price.
Running costs – If driven economically (which I’m guessing isn’t easy at first), what kind of mpg can I expect on local journeys? And how about motorway driving at around cough*80mph*cough?
Neal - I'm not sure driving economically is even possible! I get c.18mpg on local journeys, 24-25 mpg on a motorway run, combined low-20s is the norm. Just accept it
Servicing/Maintenance – I believe when the cars first purchased, an initial check/inspection is carried out after a few thousand miles. Is this normally documented and what does it consist of? Also, what are likely costs for insp 1 or 2 if I were to find a specialist/indie? (I’m based in Coventry)
No idea what the running in check comprises, but if done it'll be stamped in the book (mine was) from a main dealer. Best to contact your local indy on prices, but I'm thinking c.£400 for an Ins 1 and c.£600 for Ins 2
That’s about it for now. Apologies for all the questions. Would really appreciate any help!
Thanks!
I’ve been a long time lurker on this forum and thought I’d finally register
I’m a big fan of the E39 M5 and _really_ want one. But it won’t be until I save up some more funds and complete further research. I have a few questions which I was hoping you guys could help me with. I've read up on different articles, forums, etc online but opinions are varied. Here goes:
Facelift or pre-facelift - I hear the pre-facelift versions had Vanos issues but this can be resolved. How much would it cost? Any other pros and cons between the two?
No huge differences, couple of engine tweaks, but it's not the case (as far as I can tell) that pre-facelift cars have Vanos issues. They have more Vanos noise due to a pump system that was introduced to retain the high-pressure oil, but that's not linked with running problems IIRC. Also, I believe there was a re-design of the Piston rings around 2000, which had the effect of reducing oil consumption, but again, it's not an "issue" as such - pre- and post- facelift cars use oil.
I went for a facelift car because they look better - rear lights, xenons, wide-screen nav, front parking sensors, and I thought it'd hold its value a bit better. I test drove pre- and post- facelift cars, and they drive identically. You won't be disappointed in a pre-facelift in terms of the driving experience though, and they're pretty fully-loaded as standard.
Reliability – Any common problems/issues to look out for? Tell-tale signs of problems to keep an eye out for?
Rust - commonly on and below the bootlid but check everywhere. Excessive Vanos noise. Tyres and brakes are expensive, so make sure they're in good nick. Check the MAFs as they can cause running issues - use the OBD (see M5board for full MAF checking advice) and make sure the sport button works. It's worth getting an indy to check over the car before purchase, and plug in a diagnostic machine and check for error codes.
Mileage – Should I try to source one with sub 100k on the clock? Would examples with over 100k still be sought after?
Don't discount 100k+ miles cars - there's a lot doing very strongly indeed. Mileage isn't an issue, buy on condition and maintenance, but mileage will of course affect the price.
Running costs – If driven economically (which I’m guessing isn’t easy at first), what kind of mpg can I expect on local journeys? And how about motorway driving at around cough*80mph*cough?
Neal - I'm not sure driving economically is even possible! I get c.18mpg on local journeys, 24-25 mpg on a motorway run, combined low-20s is the norm. Just accept it
Servicing/Maintenance – I believe when the cars first purchased, an initial check/inspection is carried out after a few thousand miles. Is this normally documented and what does it consist of? Also, what are likely costs for insp 1 or 2 if I were to find a specialist/indie? (I’m based in Coventry)
No idea what the running in check comprises, but if done it'll be stamped in the book (mine was) from a main dealer. Best to contact your local indy on prices, but I'm thinking c.£400 for an Ins 1 and c.£600 for Ins 2
That’s about it for now. Apologies for all the questions. Would really appreciate any help!
Thanks!
Sufyaan said:
Hello all,
I’ve been a long time lurker on this forum and thought I’d finally register
I’m a big fan of the E39 M5 and _really_ want one. But it won’t be until I save up some more funds and complete further research. I have a few questions which I was hoping you guys could help me with. I've read up on different articles, forums, etc online but opinions are varied. Here goes:
Facelift or pre-facelift - I hear the pre-facelift versions had Vanos issues but this can be resolved. How much would it cost? Any other pros and cons between the two?
Facelift: generally use less oil (expensive), and little cosmetic changes make them look/feel more modern.
Reliability – Any common problems/issues to look out for? Tell-tale signs of problems to keep an eye out for?
Check the bushes all round. The car needs to feel tight, rattle free and responsive to steering. Wheel judder under breaking can mean bushes and or discs - both arent cheap. Check the history in detail. You want to see proper evidence of maintenance, not the past 5 years in the hands of owners who couldnt afford to run it. It will never be the car its intended to be unless its been properly maintainted.
Mileage – Should I try to source one with sub 100k on the clock? Would examples with over 100k still be sought after?
History is more important than mileage. Check when brake discs, clutch were last replaced. Major services carried out on time (not oil service after oil service) should see post 100k miles good for plenty of life yet!
Running costs – If driven economically (which I’m guessing isn’t easy at first), what kind of mpg can I expect on local journeys? And how about motorway driving at around cough*80mph*cough?
c.18-20 round town. c.22-24 on a run.
Servicing/Maintenance – I believe when the cars first purchased, an initial check/inspection is carried out after a few thousand miles. Is this normally documented and what does it consist of? Also, what are likely costs for insp 1 or 2 if I were to find a specialist/indie? (I’m based in Coventry)
'Running In Service' - having owned 5 'M' Cars, over hyped in my opinion. I had a perfect car for years without a single problem that didnt have a running in service - mileage went over 100k - it made 400+ bhp and was perfect.
That’s about it for now. Apologies for all the questions. Would really appreciate any help!
Thanks!
I’ve been a long time lurker on this forum and thought I’d finally register
I’m a big fan of the E39 M5 and _really_ want one. But it won’t be until I save up some more funds and complete further research. I have a few questions which I was hoping you guys could help me with. I've read up on different articles, forums, etc online but opinions are varied. Here goes:
Facelift or pre-facelift - I hear the pre-facelift versions had Vanos issues but this can be resolved. How much would it cost? Any other pros and cons between the two?
Facelift: generally use less oil (expensive), and little cosmetic changes make them look/feel more modern.
Reliability – Any common problems/issues to look out for? Tell-tale signs of problems to keep an eye out for?
Check the bushes all round. The car needs to feel tight, rattle free and responsive to steering. Wheel judder under breaking can mean bushes and or discs - both arent cheap. Check the history in detail. You want to see proper evidence of maintenance, not the past 5 years in the hands of owners who couldnt afford to run it. It will never be the car its intended to be unless its been properly maintainted.
Mileage – Should I try to source one with sub 100k on the clock? Would examples with over 100k still be sought after?
History is more important than mileage. Check when brake discs, clutch were last replaced. Major services carried out on time (not oil service after oil service) should see post 100k miles good for plenty of life yet!
Running costs – If driven economically (which I’m guessing isn’t easy at first), what kind of mpg can I expect on local journeys? And how about motorway driving at around cough*80mph*cough?
c.18-20 round town. c.22-24 on a run.
Servicing/Maintenance – I believe when the cars first purchased, an initial check/inspection is carried out after a few thousand miles. Is this normally documented and what does it consist of? Also, what are likely costs for insp 1 or 2 if I were to find a specialist/indie? (I’m based in Coventry)
'Running In Service' - having owned 5 'M' Cars, over hyped in my opinion. I had a perfect car for years without a single problem that didnt have a running in service - mileage went over 100k - it made 400+ bhp and was perfect.
That’s about it for now. Apologies for all the questions. Would really appreciate any help!
Thanks!
Thanks very much to both Neal and Trellis! Very helpful advice indeed, especially on the reliability/things to check and the difference between facelift and pre-facelift. Quite like the sound of the extras on the facelift.
Thinking about the colour options now. Quite like the look of the dark blue (Silverstone Blue) and the Moonstone Blue. Black and silver would come next. Not too keen on the red though, would have to see one in the flesh.
I've only seen 2 in Coventry over the last year or so. A black one with a private plate ending JVL and one in silver. The black one seems to have an upgraded exhaust, yet to hear him giving it the beans though!
Thinking about the colour options now. Quite like the look of the dark blue (Silverstone Blue) and the Moonstone Blue. Black and silver would come next. Not too keen on the red though, would have to see one in the flesh.
I've only seen 2 in Coventry over the last year or so. A black one with a private plate ending JVL and one in silver. The black one seems to have an upgraded exhaust, yet to hear him giving it the beans though!
Hi
This forum is pretty good for UK based E39 M5 owners with quite a few owners registered. Else, everything you can possibly imagine for the car is discussed on the M5board.com, including what to look for when buying and ongoing running costs and of course modifications.
Asking prices and actual selling prices are all over the place at the moment. Seems the lower mile examples ask relatively high prices. What's the budget you are thinking of or have?
The 'darker' blue is the Le Mans blue and is by far the most common colour for UK M5's. The 'lighter' blue is the Silverstone colour. Carbon Black is a great colour as well when it flips to have the blue in it. Silver's are rarer, and then the rest of the colour palette has much less examples.
Cheers, Dennis!
This forum is pretty good for UK based E39 M5 owners with quite a few owners registered. Else, everything you can possibly imagine for the car is discussed on the M5board.com, including what to look for when buying and ongoing running costs and of course modifications.
Asking prices and actual selling prices are all over the place at the moment. Seems the lower mile examples ask relatively high prices. What's the budget you are thinking of or have?
The 'darker' blue is the Le Mans blue and is by far the most common colour for UK M5's. The 'lighter' blue is the Silverstone colour. Carbon Black is a great colour as well when it flips to have the blue in it. Silver's are rarer, and then the rest of the colour palette has much less examples.
Cheers, Dennis!
Edited by DennisCooper on Wednesday 4th April 14:34
Sufyaan said:
Quite like the look of the dark blue (Silverstone Blue) and the Moonstone Blue.
[geek voice on] The dark blue is probably Le Mans Blue, and I don't think the M5 was available in Moonstone. The two light blues are Silverstone and Bluewater [geek voice off] I reckon you can get a very decent car for less than £8k (unfortunately for us owners) and prices are only going one way at the moment. Actually had mine up for sale but have now decided to keep it for another year or so.
This Le-Mans Blue post-facelift look tidy (identical colour/interior spec to mine, actually) for example:
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3685182.htm
DennisCooper said:
The 'darker' blue is the Le Mans blue and is by far the most common colour for UK M5's. The 'lighter' blue is the Silverstone colour. Carbon Black is a great colour as well when it flips to have the blue in it. Silver's are rarer, and then the rest of the colour palette has much less examples.
Cheers, Dennis!
From M5 board, and illustrative of the level of (nerdy) knowledge on there:Cheers, Dennis!
"We have a list of the most common colours on the RHD E39 M5 (see below). 2595 were built, and this includes the South African and Australian versions as well, so not just GB cars only here. About 1950 were sold in the England version. You have lost a few over the years I think. There are only about 1500 in that list from the DVLA.
Anyway, out of the 2595 cars, these were the most common exterior colours:
Carbonschwarz metallic = 710 made
Le-Mansblau metallic = 554
Silverstone metallic = 389
Avusblau metallic = 254
Titansilber metallic = 223"
I think all the answers have been given but reference face lift, I bought a 1999 Model made in November of that year, full main dealer service history, had 54k on the clock.
Paid £11,000 absolutely immaculate no dings, marks etc.
Kept it for 18 months never used any oil, no vanos noise, reliable. Never really did notice the differences between pre or post facelift to look at just wanted a mint one.
As for ownership wasn't that impressed, brakes were shocking, replaced discs and pads still s
te, performance was okay but nothing what amazed me.
Sold it for 9k last summer with 66k on the clock. Wouldn't have one again.
Paid £11,000 absolutely immaculate no dings, marks etc.
Kept it for 18 months never used any oil, no vanos noise, reliable. Never really did notice the differences between pre or post facelift to look at just wanted a mint one.
As for ownership wasn't that impressed, brakes were shocking, replaced discs and pads still s
te, performance was okay but nothing what amazed me.Sold it for 9k last summer with 66k on the clock. Wouldn't have one again.
Dennis – I’ll be registering to the m5board soon and you’re right, there does seem to be quite a following on here for the E39 M5. Ran a couple of searches and brought up some interesting results. Oh and the budget I have at the moment is around £2k short on what I need. So a bit more saving to do. If my ‘quick-money’ ideas work out, I can get one sooner.
Neal – Thanks again. I knew I had made a mistake with the colours. Moonstone Blue is a Peugeot colour! Hah. Yep, £8k seems to be a reasonable price for a good example. I want to make sure I save some extra dosh to cover insurance, maintenance, etc. Well, if I get one that has been well maintained, I may not have to spend so much on it initially. So tempted to jump straight in but I’m going to wait. I’m sure it’ll be worth it!
996 – That hasn’t put me off From what I’ve seen, read and heard, the car is very capable and still is. The brake issue I have read about, not sure which option you went for but owners have got around that issue with upgraded brake kits.
Neal – Thanks again. I knew I had made a mistake with the colours. Moonstone Blue is a Peugeot colour! Hah. Yep, £8k seems to be a reasonable price for a good example. I want to make sure I save some extra dosh to cover insurance, maintenance, etc. Well, if I get one that has been well maintained, I may not have to spend so much on it initially. So tempted to jump straight in but I’m going to wait. I’m sure it’ll be worth it!
996 – That hasn’t put me off
From what I’ve seen, read and heard, the car is very capable and still is. The brake issue I have read about, not sure which option you went for but owners have got around that issue with upgraded brake kits.On the brakes, you don't need to uprate - they are big, heavy cars, so hardly stop on a dime, but the brakes are fine for road use. Big brake kits are silly money, and in my view pointless unless you're tracking the car, and even then, as far as I know, BMW didn't uprate calipers when it used the E39 M5 as its 'Ring Taxi.
Best bet is to get one, drive it with good condition discs, pads and fluid, then upgrade if you think you need to.
Best bet is to get one, drive it with good condition discs, pads and fluid, then upgrade if you think you need to.
Can't add much more to the good advice above, other than buy the best you can as you'll get your money's worth in the long run. It's not enough to have fsh, you need receipts to show what has been done. Otherwise, have your credit card ready!
Also, you can get better mpg than suggested, I got 28-29 at a 75-80mph cruise.
Also, you can get better mpg than suggested, I got 28-29 at a 75-80mph cruise.
surely every car can get better than round town and mixed driving, on a 70mph cruise.......
If you're encouraging a prospective first time owner to think he can get 28mpg out of a E39 M5, I'd say you're setting him up for a fall - who wants to drive an M5 feathering the loud pedal????
Realistically. These cars give sub 20 in town driving and early 20s on mixed mileage. If you're prepared for that, you'll be fine......
If you're encouraging a prospective first time owner to think he can get 28mpg out of a E39 M5, I'd say you're setting him up for a fall - who wants to drive an M5 feathering the loud pedal????
Realistically. These cars give sub 20 in town driving and early 20s on mixed mileage. If you're prepared for that, you'll be fine......
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