Discussion
nickfrog said:
Looks stunning to my eyes. The colour is even growing on me.
I agree,the colour, and wide arches look superb imo and will become a classic been the last proper ICE ///M car with 450+ BHP and available with a manual gearbox, the vast with criticism havn't even driven it. Wait a few years and this will become a iconic ///M car...
CRA1G said:
Wait a few years and this will become a iconic ///M car...
I can’t see any M car from this generation becoming ‘iconic’, but whatever helps you sleep at night. My daily drivers from the 80s (E12 M535i, E24 M635csi, E28 M5 etc.) are now considered iconic, but I can’t see how anything on sale from BMW now would be seen as such. People seem to wheel out the same hyperbole for anything they buy nowadays, from 911 GT3 to GR Yaris, from GR86 to apparently M2; enjoy your car by all means, but I don’t recall anything like the divisiveness for the aforementioned 80s M cars when they were launched, which could be why they are now considered ‘iconic’ all these years later. CKY said:
I can’t see any M car from this generation becoming ‘iconic’, but whatever helps you sleep at night. My daily drivers from the 80s (E12 M535i, E24 M635csi, E28 M5 etc.) are now considered iconic, but I can’t see how anything on sale from BMW now would be seen as such. People seem to wheel out the same hyperbole for anything they buy nowadays, from 911 GT3 to GR Yaris, from GR86 to apparently M2; enjoy your car by all means, but I don’t recall anything like the divisiveness for the aforementioned 80s M cars when they were launched, which could be why they are now considered ‘iconic’ all these years later.
Agreed. Look at the E36 M3, E46 M3, E92 M3, F80 M3, E34 M5, E39 M5, F10 & F90 M5, previous-gen M2 & M2 Comp – none of them required their designs to “grow on us”. And they all remain good-looking purposeful timeless designs to this day. It’s just people who have a vested interest in the new BMW M cars who are apologetic about their designs and making excuses on behalf of them.Granted, a standard un-molested E60 M5 looks superb in the right colour today, imo.
nickfrog said:
Vested interest 
.
It's more prosaic that that. Different people like different things. Popularity means nothing if you don't like it nor lack of popularity if you like it.
In other words, it's subjective. A bit like car design.
Yeah but when the vast majority tend to say something is unpleasant to look at it tends to stick .It's more prosaic that that. Different people like different things. Popularity means nothing if you don't like it nor lack of popularity if you like it.
In other words, it's subjective. A bit like car design.
A44RON said:
nickfrog said:
Vested interest .
It's more prosaic that that. Different people like different things. Popularity means nothing if you don't like it nor lack of popularity if you like it.
In other words, it's subjective. A bit like car design.
Yeah but when the vast majority tend to say something is unpleasant to look at it tends to stick .It's more prosaic that that. Different people like different things. Popularity means nothing if you don't like it nor lack of popularity if you like it.
In other words, it's subjective. A bit like car design.
And then again, while I appreciate that the way a car looks in the eyes of other people is important to you, there is still the way it drives, if that's of any importance of course.
It's conceivable that someone may just about be OK with the way it looks but absolutely love the way it drives and that wins them over. They don't even need to be in any majority either.
nickfrog said:
A44RON said:
nickfrog said:
Vested interest .
It's more prosaic that that. Different people like different things. Popularity means nothing if you don't like it nor lack of popularity if you like it.
In other words, it's subjective. A bit like car design.
Yeah but when the vast majority tend to say something is unpleasant to look at it tends to stick .It's more prosaic that that. Different people like different things. Popularity means nothing if you don't like it nor lack of popularity if you like it.
In other words, it's subjective. A bit like car design.
And then again, while I appreciate that the way a car looks in the eyes of other people is important to you, there is still the way it drives, if that's of any importance of course.
It's conceivable that someone may just about be OK with the way it looks but absolutely love the way it drives and that wins them over. They don't even need to be in any majority either.
also the car reviews all say the design is challenging, forums elsewhere, YouTubers. The fact the design is so controversial speaks for itself. This is no surprise. Ultimately it will come down to how many they sell compared to the previous generation M2. So the sales figures will be where to look also.
I personally buy cars that I like for myself (and how they look and drive), I'm not influenced by anyone else's opinion, so kudos to you too for that. But lets not shy away and make excuses for the fact that the majority of car enthusiasts don't like the look of the new M2 and that's fine
A44RON said:
You misunderstood my post. I'm saying the vast majority on the forum threads here (read them!) do echo that it's not a great looking car - this is clear if you do pay attention and read the posts. We can even do a poll also the car reviews all say the design is challenging, forums elsewhere, YouTubers. The fact the design is so controversial speaks for itself. This is no surprise.
Ultimately it will come down to how many they sell compared to the previous generation M2. So the sales figures will be where to look also.
I personally buy cars that I like for myself (and how they look and drive), I'm not influenced by anyone else's opinion, so kudos to you too for that. But lets not shy away and make excuses for the fact that the majority of car enthusiasts don't like the look of the new M2 and that's fine
That's not a demonstrable fact, is it? Just your opinion. No need for shyness or excuses or vested interest (what was that about btw?). also the car reviews all say the design is challenging, forums elsewhere, YouTubers. The fact the design is so controversial speaks for itself. This is no surprise. Ultimately it will come down to how many they sell compared to the previous generation M2. So the sales figures will be where to look also.
I personally buy cars that I like for myself (and how they look and drive), I'm not influenced by anyone else's opinion, so kudos to you too for that. But lets not shy away and make excuses for the fact that the majority of car enthusiasts don't like the look of the new M2 and that's fine
Again, looks are subjective. What you're saying is that you don't like the way it looks and that you think a vast majority of people don't. But on PH, people slag everything off anyway, particularly when they have an empty garage, they always need a good reason to hate, so very little statistical value anyway.
But beyond that, what have statistics (even if you had them) have to do with anything? If you're not influenced and like a car's looks it's utterly irrelevant if an alleged majority agree or not. And conversely, it would be odd to dislike a car because a majority do, particularly when they're not in the market in the first place.
I'll give you an easy example. I really like Velasquez as an artist. His work is however quite austere and somewhat depressing. I am pretty sure a huge majority of people into art wouldn't think his paintings are quite unappealing. That makes no difference to my appreciation of his work.
Again, looks are totally subjective, aren't they? Or do you also disagree with that?
Edited by nickfrog on Wednesday 6th March 21:27
nickfrog said:
It's conceivable that someone may just about be OK with the way it looks but absolutely love the way it drives and that wins them over.
This is how I feel on the M3 Touring, part of me wishes it looked like a mini M5 (outgoing gen) but the way it felt to drive vs the B3 made it an easy decision to go with the M car, despite the slightly more understated look of the Alpina.The Internet of opinion tends to skew negatively anyway, as the people who like something are out there enjoying it while those that dislike it are on Reddit complaining it doesn't look like an E46.
Personally I'm not a fan of the new M2 but I'm not buying or selling one, so does it really matter?
nickfrog said:
A44RON said:
You misunderstood my post. I'm saying the vast majority on the forum threads here (read them!) do echo that it's not a great looking car - this is clear if you do pay attention and read the posts. We can even do a poll also the car reviews all say the design is challenging, forums elsewhere, YouTubers. The fact the design is so controversial speaks for itself. This is no surprise.
Ultimately it will come down to how many they sell compared to the previous generation M2. So the sales figures will be where to look also.
I personally buy cars that I like for myself (and how they look and drive), I'm not influenced by anyone else's opinion, so kudos to you too for that. But lets not shy away and make excuses for the fact that the majority of car enthusiasts don't like the look of the new M2 and that's fine
That's not a demonstrable fact, is it? Just your opinion. No need for shyness or excuses or vested interest (what was that about btw?). also the car reviews all say the design is challenging, forums elsewhere, YouTubers. The fact the design is so controversial speaks for itself. This is no surprise. Ultimately it will come down to how many they sell compared to the previous generation M2. So the sales figures will be where to look also.
I personally buy cars that I like for myself (and how they look and drive), I'm not influenced by anyone else's opinion, so kudos to you too for that. But lets not shy away and make excuses for the fact that the majority of car enthusiasts don't like the look of the new M2 and that's fine
Again, looks are subjective. What you're saying is that you don't like the way it looks and that you think a vast majority of people don't. But on PH, people slag everything off anyway, particularly when they have an empty garage, they always need a good reason to hate, so very little statistical value anyway.
But beyond that, what have statistics (even if you had them) have to do with anything? If you're not influenced and like a car's looks it's utterly irrelevant if an alleged majority agree or not. And conversely, it would be odd to dislike a car because a majority do, particularly when they're not in the market in the first place.
I'll give you an easy example. I really like Velasquez as an artist. His work is however quite austere and somewhat depressing. I am pretty sure a huge majority of people into art wouldn't think his paintings are quite unappealing. That makes no difference to my appreciation of his work.
Again, looks are totally subjective, aren't they? Or do you also disagree with that?
Edited by nickfrog on Wednesday 6th March 21:27
You do seem very triggered and defensive about the new M2 and have been for quite some time going by how you always jump to its defense...
do you work for BMW?Fwiw, I'm a massive BMW M car fanboy and have been for many years. Still am to a degree. I'm a prime candidate for this car and still might/maybe consider a nearly-new M2 Competition when the slightly used examples appear on the market next year (Comp version supposedly launching Q3 2024), IF I can get past those Lego brick looks and something that looks strikingly similar to a late 1990s Honda Prelude from certain angles, and if they offer it in better colours... but I won't even consider this M2 because of (a) currently I still can't get past the design - it's not a car I can look back on and admire. and (b) the depreciation hit on these will be significant when the Competition version launches. As it stands a Cayman GTS 4.0 will get my money - a car that looks and drives fantastic - has anyone ever described that as fugly or challenging to look at... Nope, even though it's subjective. Get what I'm saying?
You like to say "you think the vast majority of people don't" - I'm reading the room - so what's the problem?. Maybe you should try it too. Better still, post a simple poll on here - "is the new M2 good looking or not?"
It's a bit bizarre how defensive you are of this car. I remember you getting your pants in a twist in the comments when the M2 review was published because potential buyers were (rightly so) flaming the sheer weight of the car and someone pointed out that an M6 5.0-litre V10 coupe weighed almost the same, despite 17-year-old technology and materials.
Edited by A44RON on Wednesday 6th March 23:38
I think the looks of the G87 M2 are somewhat challenging, however, I am about to put a deposit down on a new black G87 M2 to replace Mrs OH's 5 year old M240i.
When you are driving the car you don't see the challenging looks. It's the dynamics of the car that matter and it is one hell of a car and that's coming from someone who owns (and will probably never sell) a 981 Cayman GT4 which is an excellent car.
Having owned a few M3s and a F87 M2 the G87 M2 is a better car than most of those I've owned with the possible exception of the two E30 M3s I owned many years ago.
When you are driving the car you don't see the challenging looks. It's the dynamics of the car that matter and it is one hell of a car and that's coming from someone who owns (and will probably never sell) a 981 Cayman GT4 which is an excellent car.
Having owned a few M3s and a F87 M2 the G87 M2 is a better car than most of those I've owned with the possible exception of the two E30 M3s I owned many years ago.
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