A320 down in Pakistan

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Discussion

Venisonpie

3,311 posts

83 months

Friday 29th May 2020
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Starfighter said:
A short lecture on landing the shuttle with some data and in-flight footage.
https://youtu.be/Jb4prVsXkZU
Superb. The last 100knts shaved in such a short time as you head towards the ground are impressive. And no go around available.

Eric Mc

122,140 posts

266 months

Friday 29th May 2020
quotequote all
ash73 said:
It had a problem with pilot induced oscillation, iirc. I remember TV footage of Prince Charles watching an early landing and looking a bit nervous.
That was on one of the early glide flights with Enterprise. Most of the time the Shuttle behaved well on approach and landing. There was a bit of an "Oops" moment when Columbia landed back at the White Sands landing site at the end of the 3rd Shuttle mission in 1982 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sww7wF7bdA4

It was the only time White Sands was ever used.

Eric Mc

122,140 posts

266 months

Friday 29th May 2020
quotequote all
He was slightly late with the gear but the undercarriage was altar lowered quite late in proceedings anyway.

Starfighter

4,938 posts

179 months

Friday 29th May 2020
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Around 300 feet.

Chuck328

1,581 posts

168 months

Saturday 30th May 2020
quotequote all
Venisonpie said:
Starfighter said:
A short lecture on landing the shuttle with some data and in-flight footage.
https://youtu.be/Jb4prVsXkZU
Superb. The last 100knts shaved in such a short time as you head towards the ground are impressive. And no go around available.
We take 30 minutes + to get from 30k + to landing (airliner).

3 1/2 minutes, wow.

What really impresses, the first ever landing like that. Zero experience despite all the simulations.

Flooble

5,565 posts

101 months

Saturday 30th May 2020
quotequote all
Chuck328 said:
We take 30 minutes + to get from 30k + to landing (airliner).

3 1/2 minutes, wow.

What really impresses, the first ever landing like that. Zero experience despite all the simulations.
They had an aircraft which was modified to fly (well, fall) like the shuttle - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttle_Training_Air...

Mortgage_tom

1,307 posts

227 months

Monday 1st June 2020
quotequote all
Starfighter said:
A short lecture on landing the shuttle with some data and in-flight footage.
https://youtu.be/Jb4prVsXkZU
Thanks for that.

focusxr5

328 posts

117 months

Monday 1st June 2020
quotequote all
Starfighter said:
A short lecture on landing the shuttle with some data and in-flight footage.
https://youtu.be/Jb4prVsXkZU
Genuinely enjoyed watching that

essayer

9,102 posts

195 months

Monday 1st June 2020
quotequote all
If you like that you'll like this vid from STS-98

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W4cfIyNvts

HUD view of Atlantis landing at Edwards in 2001 (with audio)

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

262 months

Monday 1st June 2020
quotequote all
I hope the HUD is easier to read in real life.

Eric Mc

122,140 posts

266 months

Monday 1st June 2020
quotequote all
Dr Jekyll said:
I hope the HUD is easier to read in real life.
Since the Shuttle is retired 9 years, it's an academic point now.

Krikkit

26,581 posts

182 months

Monday 1st June 2020
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Flooble said:
They had an aircraft which was modified to fly (well, fall) like the shuttle - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttle_Training_Air...
That's really cool, doing over 1000 practice landings before they let you up in the real thing, practice indeed.

Eric Mc

122,140 posts

266 months

Monday 1st June 2020
quotequote all
They had two of them. They were converted Gulfstream II aircraft. Both are now retired and in museums.

djc206

12,403 posts

126 months

Monday 1st June 2020
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Eric Mc said:
They had two of them. They were converted Gulfstream II aircraft. Both are now retired and in museums.
Wikipedia says 4? 3 of which are in museums.

Either way pretty brilliant aircraft and idea!

aeropilot

34,778 posts

228 months

Saturday 6th June 2020
quotequote all
As expected, it appears there was indeed no technical issue/fault with the aircraft, following the Airbus communication to all operators yesterday:

”Based on the preliminary analysis of the available data (accident site information, ATC records, FDR and CVR data), Airbus has no specific safety recommendations to raise at this stage of the investigation.“

Eric Mc

122,140 posts

266 months

Saturday 6th June 2020
quotequote all
djc206 said:
Wikipedia says 4? 3 of which are in museums.

Either way pretty brilliant aircraft and idea!
Is that 4 Gulfstreams or 4 Shuttle Training Aircraft?

Countdown

40,049 posts

197 months

Saturday 6th June 2020
quotequote all
aeropilot said:
As expected, it appears there was indeed no technical issue/fault with the aircraft, following the Airbus communication to all operators yesterday:

”Based on the preliminary analysis of the available data (accident site information, ATC records, FDR and CVR data), Airbus has no specific safety recommendations to raise at this stage of the investigation.“
So that suggest 100% pilot error?

Other than in the simulator do pilots as a general rule have their takeoffs/landings reviewed or sample checked to see how far they deviate from the prescribed approach/landing profile?

I was just thinking that this might not necessarily be the only incident where the Pilots have been sloppy (the only difference being they didnt get away with it).

aeropilot

34,778 posts

228 months

Saturday 6th June 2020
quotequote all
Countdown said:
aeropilot said:
As expected, it appears there was indeed no technical issue/fault with the aircraft, following the Airbus communication to all operators yesterday:

”Based on the preliminary analysis of the available data (accident site information, ATC records, FDR and CVR data), Airbus has no specific safety recommendations to raise at this stage of the investigation.“
So that suggest 100% pilot error?
Almost certainly.
Clearly Airbus have seen no technical problems recorded on the systems, so it's clearly a crew induced crash as expected from what was already known.

Shy Torque

490 posts

188 months

Saturday 6th June 2020
quotequote all
Countdown said:
So that suggest 100% pilot error?

Other than in the simulator do pilots as a general rule have their takeoffs/landings reviewed or sample checked to see how far they deviate from the prescribed approach/landing profile?

I was just thinking that this might not necessarily be the only incident where the Pilots have been sloppy (the only difference being they didnt get away with it).
Airlines have an FDM (Flight Data Monitoring) programme, where records of all flights are regularly downloaded from aircraft and any preset parameters that are exceeded flagged up. Excessive speed during taxi is my favourite.

Edited by Shy Torque on Saturday 6th June 18:20

Countdown

40,049 posts

197 months

Saturday 6th June 2020
quotequote all
Shy Torque said:
Airlines have an FDM (Flight Data Monitoring) programme, where records of all flights are regularly downloaded from aircraft and any preset parameters that are exceeded flagged up. Excessive speed during taxi is my favourite.

I am unsure if FDM is mandatory in Pakistan
yes, that's the type of thing I was wondering about.

I don't know if anybody remembers Krypton Factor? My favourite part was when they were tasked with landing an airliner, helicopter (or, on one occasion a Sea Harrier or a Space Shuttle). After they'd landed somebody would show an outline of their flightpath compared to the correct flightpath .

I thought if it was available it would be a good/quick/easy way of ensuring pilot proficiency.