A320 down in Pakistan
Discussion
focusxr5 said:
Looking at the ATC non compliance report, it states the aircraft was at 3500ft at 5nm, and 1300ft at 4nm and 250kts. Someone much cleverer than me will be able to do the maths but even with my GA knowledge, that's one hell of a rate of descent for a big aircraft. Would that rate of descent even be within AC airframe operating limits?
tan X = (altitude/1 mile) = 2200/5280 = 0.4166X = 22 degrees ?? That seems quite steep (IANAP)
focusxr5 said:
Looking at the ATC non compliance report, it states the aircraft was at 3500ft at 5nm, and 1300ft at 4nm and 250kts. Someone much cleverer than me will be able to do the maths but even with my GA knowledge, that's one hell of a rate of descent for a big aircraft. Would that rate of descent even be within AC airframe operating limits?
Thats a 22degree "glide" slope isnt it? 1degree is usually 100 foot decent.
Maybe they got the 3 to 1 rule round the other way?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Missing top of descent seems to be a focus of the investigation certainly: why that was, & why they ignored the offers to address it are also a key part of that discussion, no doubt.anonymous said:
[redacted]
If you mean when on approach, no: quite clear from recordings they were both engaged in flying the aircraft. If you mean in the cruise, that has happened before. It's not clear why they missed TOD; as mentioned above, that's part of the enquiry, but it's unlikely on a relatively short flight that they fell asleep as such. Distraction & fatigue based confusion will be something they'll also be looking into, though.The numbers are so far out I wonder if there was some kind of crazy brain fart mis-measurement or misunderstanding, for example they were used to an aircraft measuring feet and the Airbus has meters or something (regardless of whether this exact specific example is possible or likely)
https://aeronewsglobal.com/pk8303-crash-the-prelim...
Pilots distracted? f
k off.
Absolute cluster fk.
.
Pilots distracted? f
k off. Absolute cluster f
k. .
Chuck328 said:
https://aeronewsglobal.com/pk8303-crash-the-prelim...
Pilots distracted? fk off.
Absolute cluster fk.
.
Its worse than I was expecting........what a shower of sPilots distracted? f
k off. Absolute cluster f
k. .
t that flight crew were......!Astonishing.
I bet we won't ever see full a transcript of the CVR.
It shows the absolute level of cluster-**** that they were so "overtaken by events" that they'd forgot they'd already lowered the gear, so moved the gear to "lower" them at 1760ft but moved the lever UP and that neither pilot, despite numerous "gear not down" warnings (and hearing is the first to go in a stress situation I know), looked at the handle and realised their mistake.
They were so far behind the aircraft that the crash almost seemed inevitable no matter what. I would hope that PIA gets a thorough inspection too, because these were two very experienced captains who ended up in a situation so bad even a rookie pilot would have called the 1st attempt off.
They were so far behind the aircraft that the crash almost seemed inevitable no matter what. I would hope that PIA gets a thorough inspection too, because these were two very experienced captains who ended up in a situation so bad even a rookie pilot would have called the 1st attempt off.
Anyone any thoughts on 1 in 3 PIA pilots have fake licenses ?
Just saw one go over on Plane Finder, not sure I want 777's driven by chaps with a copy of MSFS 2004, Observers book of planes and lots of enthusiasm flying over.
Is that a PIA thing only, have heard of one US airline having a guy who got away with it for years but otherwise thought it would be very hard to secure a seat without actual verified qualifications and expereince ?
Just saw one go over on Plane Finder, not sure I want 777's driven by chaps with a copy of MSFS 2004, Observers book of planes and lots of enthusiasm flying over.
Is that a PIA thing only, have heard of one US airline having a guy who got away with it for years but otherwise thought it would be very hard to secure a seat without actual verified qualifications and expereince ?
J4CKO said:
Anyone any thoughts on 1 in 3 PIA pilots have fake licenses ?
Just saw one go over on Plane Finder, not sure I want 777's driven by chaps with a copy of MSFS 2004, Observers book of planes and lots of enthusiasm flying over.
Is that a PIA thing only, have heard of one US airline having a guy who got away with it for years but otherwise thought it would be very hard to secure a seat without actual verified qualifications and expereince ?
All down to the quality of employee vetting and the level of corruption in a given jurisdiction I guess.Just saw one go over on Plane Finder, not sure I want 777's driven by chaps with a copy of MSFS 2004, Observers book of planes and lots of enthusiasm flying over.
Is that a PIA thing only, have heard of one US airline having a guy who got away with it for years but otherwise thought it would be very hard to secure a seat without actual verified qualifications and expereince ?
You would hope that those who are woefully underqualified would be quickly discovered by their colleagues...
J4CKO said:
Anyone any thoughts on 1 in 3 PIA pilots have fake licenses ?
Just saw one go over on Plane Finder, not sure I want 777's driven by chaps with a copy of MSFS 2004, Observers book of planes and lots of enthusiasm flying over.
Is that a PIA thing only, have heard of one US airline having a guy who got away with it for years but otherwise thought it would be very hard to secure a seat without actual verified qualifications and expereince ?
How difficult can it be?Just saw one go over on Plane Finder, not sure I want 777's driven by chaps with a copy of MSFS 2004, Observers book of planes and lots of enthusiasm flying over.
Is that a PIA thing only, have heard of one US airline having a guy who got away with it for years but otherwise thought it would be very hard to secure a seat without actual verified qualifications and expereince ?
I saw someone land a plane in the airplane movies back in the 80's and we're much more advanced now!
There was a short news item in german radio, they said that 30% of PIAA pilots have been suspended,
because of a big discovery of exams fraud, they had "stand-in" persons ( other pilots ? civilians ? friends? ) for the flight exams.
Is this verified somewhere else in the aviation scene ?
because of a big discovery of exams fraud, they had "stand-in" persons ( other pilots ? civilians ? friends? ) for the flight exams.
Is this verified somewhere else in the aviation scene ?
Benni said:
There was a short news item in german radio, they said that 30% of PIAA pilots have been suspended,
because of a big discovery of exams fraud, they had "stand-in" persons ( other pilots ? civilians ? friends? ) for the flight exams.
Is this verified somewhere else in the aviation scene ?
I did see a tweet yesterday saying 40% of Pakistani pilot licences were fraudulent. But who knows how they decide that information.because of a big discovery of exams fraud, they had "stand-in" persons ( other pilots ? civilians ? friends? ) for the flight exams.
Is this verified somewhere else in the aviation scene ?
Benni said:
There was a short news item in german radio, they said that 30% of PIAA pilots have been suspended,
because of a big discovery of exams fraud, they had "stand-in" persons ( other pilots ? civilians ? friends? ) for the flight exams.
Is this verified somewhere else in the aviation scene ?
I'm aware that the stand-in process worked for driving licenses. Actually there's no stand in process, you literally give the Examiner X hundred rupees and he gives you a driving license. The ludicrous thing is that the Examiner charges less than the official license fee so only an idiot would pay MORE to sit a test (and risk failing) but anyway...... Unlike those psychopaths on the road i would have assumed that Pilots cared more about their own welfare rather than risk killling themselves? Plus surely you would expect to see more accidents if 30% were dodgy?because of a big discovery of exams fraud, they had "stand-in" persons ( other pilots ? civilians ? friends? ) for the flight exams.
Is this verified somewhere else in the aviation scene ?
Countdown said:
Benni said:
There was a short news item in german radio, they said that 30% of PIAA pilots have been suspended,
because of a big discovery of exams fraud, they had "stand-in" persons ( other pilots ? civilians ? friends? ) for the flight exams.
Is this verified somewhere else in the aviation scene ?
I'm aware that the stand-in process worked for driving licenses. Actually there's no stand in process, you literally give the Examiner X hundred rupees and he gives you a driving license. The ludicrous thing is that the Examiner charges less than the official license fee so only an idiot would pay MORE to sit a test (and risk failing) but anyway...... Unlike those psychopaths on the road i would have assumed that Pilots cared more about their own welfare rather than risk killling themselves? Plus surely you would expect to see more accidents if 30% were dodgy?because of a big discovery of exams fraud, they had "stand-in" persons ( other pilots ? civilians ? friends? ) for the flight exams.
Is this verified somewhere else in the aviation scene ?
High % doesn't shock me either given the what is by UK standards pretty endemic corruption.
Countdown said:
I'm aware that the stand-in process worked for driving licenses. Actually there's no stand in process, you literally give the Examiner X hundred rupees and he gives you a driving license. The ludicrous thing is that the Examiner charges less than the official license fee so only an idiot would pay MORE to sit a test (and risk failing) but anyway...... Unlike those psychopaths on the road i would have assumed that Pilots cared more about their own welfare rather than risk killling themselves? Plus surely you would expect to see more accidents if 30% were dodgy?
And how do you think the Examiner got into post?Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff