Train coaches overcrowded
Discussion
New one on me..
There used to be a train that would leave Doncaster at 7:20 ish to arrive in Newcastle at a useful 8:45. This has now left the time table so I can either leave at 6:10 to arrive very early, or leave at 8:12 and arrive at an unuseful 9:40.
Why on earth scrap the service arriving in the city at peak hours?
There used to be a train that would leave Doncaster at 7:20 ish to arrive in Newcastle at a useful 8:45. This has now left the time table so I can either leave at 6:10 to arrive very early, or leave at 8:12 and arrive at an unuseful 9:40.
Why on earth scrap the service arriving in the city at peak hours?
Jordie Barretts sock said:
I had the 'joy' of travelling 45 minutes and two stops at 1030 this morning on Cross Country. I had reserved seats, just as well because the four coach trainer n had people stood all the way down the train in the vestibules and aisles. So why didn't CC run a train with more carriages?
When you reserve a seat (I've never done it) do you only discover where your seat is upon boarding? Also, do you often find someone already sat in it? When 'Reserved' cards used to get placed on the backs of seats it was easy to see which seats were reserved, but this seems to have been replaced by a tiny digital screen above each seat informing if it is available or not. To be honest I never think to look and have sometimes been asked to vacate my seat by a frustrated passenger who has reserved it. I also see other people doing the same. Seems, like me, nobody bothers to look?
The Gauge said:
Jordie Barretts sock said:
I had the 'joy' of travelling 45 minutes and two stops at 1030 this morning on Cross Country. I had reserved seats, just as well because the four coach trainer n had people stood all the way down the train in the vestibules and aisles. So why didn't CC run a train with more carriages?
When you reserve a seat (I've never done it) do you only discover where your seat is upon boarding? Also, do you often find someone already sat in it? When 'Reserved' cards used to get placed on the backs of seats it was easy to see which seats were reserved, but this seems to have been replaced by a tiny digital screen above each seat informing if it is available or not. To be honest I never think to look and have sometimes been asked to vacate my seat by a frustrated passenger who has reserved it. I also see other people doing the same. Seems, like me, nobody bothers to look?
2xChevrons said:
We can all recall or find tales of woeful customer service under BR, and can variously proscribe that to anything from bolshy unionised bloody-mindedness to widespread tanking of morale during the era of 'managed decline'.......
A fascinating post, and answers my question of why some trains are over crowded, thank youbigpriest said:
With TransPennine Express, you select your service times (outward and return) and then have a choice to reserve a seat. You can select Window / Aisle and Table / Airline Seat. Your Coach ID and Seat Number is listed before you pay on the website....
Thanks. So is there a way of knowing where in the carriage the reserved seat will be, are their seating plans etc to view? For your example would I just have to Google search 'TransPennine Express coach E seat 21' for example?The Gauge said:
Thanks. So is there a way of knowing where in the carriage the reserved seat will be, are their seating plans etc to view? For your example would I just have to Google search 'TransPennine Express coach E seat 21' for example?
There are often seating plans online but they often dont help as they dont show the seat really is compared to the window.Also the reservation system seems to fill up each carriage in turn, so I often have a reservation but sit in the unreserved carriage as more space
The Gauge said:
bigpriest said:
With TransPennine Express, you select your service times (outward and return) and then have a choice to reserve a seat. You can select Window / Aisle and Table / Airline Seat. Your Coach ID and Seat Number is listed before you pay on the website....
Thanks. So is there a way of knowing where in the carriage the reserved seat will be, are their seating plans etc to view? For your example would I just have to Google search 'TransPennine Express coach E seat 21' for example?I regularly do Scotland - London with LNER and I've not a bad word to say about them.
Even more I use ScotRail around the central belt and further afield. I would also say that while not perfect, ScotRail also do a reasonable job these days. The biggest issue they face, now they have one shareholder in the shape of the Scottish Government, is the separation of tracks and infrastructure...
Even more I use ScotRail around the central belt and further afield. I would also say that while not perfect, ScotRail also do a reasonable job these days. The biggest issue they face, now they have one shareholder in the shape of the Scottish Government, is the separation of tracks and infrastructure...
2xChevrons said:
So in this sense (and this sense alone), the monolithic, bureaucratic, inefficient BR was actually a much more agile and resilient service provider than the fragmented, straightjacketed, every-cost-accounted 2020s privatised system.
Thank you very much for this post really interesting. My only memories of BR are only holiday trips so was excited when a 125 was replaced by a 47 as I could watch it swap ends at Reading 
I don't know if there are anymore books but reading the Train Doctor it seems that the 125's ended up pretty reliable in the end. A train I certainly miss seeing. Over the last couple of days I’ve been catching the Leighton Buzzard to Euston train, and back again which is the Birmingham train run by London Northwest, and is a 30 min journey.
Yesterday (Friday) the early afternoon train to Euston was an enjoyable journey, the eight coaches were half empty and had the most leg room I’ve ever experienced. The 7:23pm return journey was awful, standing room only.
This morning (Saturday) I caught the train around 9:45sm back into Euston and it was horrendous, standing again with hardly any room to breathe, plus the train came to a stop between stations and sat stationary for 20 mins which is no fun when your stood and crammed in. The 7:16pm back out of London was almost as busy, but I did at least get a seat, though not with the same leg room I had yesterday.
Yesterday (Friday) the early afternoon train to Euston was an enjoyable journey, the eight coaches were half empty and had the most leg room I’ve ever experienced. The 7:23pm return journey was awful, standing room only.
This morning (Saturday) I caught the train around 9:45sm back into Euston and it was horrendous, standing again with hardly any room to breathe, plus the train came to a stop between stations and sat stationary for 20 mins which is no fun when your stood and crammed in. The 7:16pm back out of London was almost as busy, but I did at least get a seat, though not with the same leg room I had yesterday.
The Gauge said:
Anyone here work on the trains and can explain why coaches always seem to be overcrowded pease?
The last few train journeys I've made have been a nightmare with overcrowded coaches, standing room only and arguments over reserved seats. ;ve experienced this on routes from Sheffield to York & Leeds (which I think is the Bristol to Edinburgh line?) etc.
When the train pulls into the station all the seats are full, a few passengers get off but even more get on. Standing room only with passengers stood down the main aisles of the coaches. When the train makes a stop, a few get off, those standing rush for the few seats that have become vacant, more passengers get on etc. It all makes for a tense and uncomfortable passenger experience.
I realise the train companies don't know when open day tickets holders will choose to ride, but this seems common place with recent train journeys I've made.
Is all this because it's impossible for the train companies to predict how many passengers they are going to have on any given day, or are they purposely not putting enough coaches on the trains, or purposely over selling tickets to maximise sales income?
It's deliberate govt policy to sardine train travellers, especially those in the north. Get used to it, as even if Labour get in there's not much to be done in the short term to fix it.The last few train journeys I've made have been a nightmare with overcrowded coaches, standing room only and arguments over reserved seats. ;ve experienced this on routes from Sheffield to York & Leeds (which I think is the Bristol to Edinburgh line?) etc.
When the train pulls into the station all the seats are full, a few passengers get off but even more get on. Standing room only with passengers stood down the main aisles of the coaches. When the train makes a stop, a few get off, those standing rush for the few seats that have become vacant, more passengers get on etc. It all makes for a tense and uncomfortable passenger experience.
I realise the train companies don't know when open day tickets holders will choose to ride, but this seems common place with recent train journeys I've made.
Is all this because it's impossible for the train companies to predict how many passengers they are going to have on any given day, or are they purposely not putting enough coaches on the trains, or purposely over selling tickets to maximise sales income?
The Gauge said:
This morning (Saturday) I caught the train around 9:45sm back into Euston and it was horrendous, standing again with hardly any room to breathe, plus the train came to a stop between stations and sat stationary for 20 mins which is no fun when your stood and crammed in. The 7:16pm back out of London was almost as busy, but I did at least get a seat, though not with the same leg room I had yesterday.
Half term so lots of little darlings being taken to London to see the sights and there was also a major demo in London (something like 100k attending) plus the usual football and the like meaning very busy trains.It’s no surprise to those that use trains regularly or work on them that discretionary leisure travel has returned with aplomb with ridership above pre-pandemic levels and yet we’re still to see the government via the DfT and the RDG take advantage of it. In fact it was just announced that Avanti will be reducing services further until Christmas. (Haven’t said which Christmas though…)
It’s almost as if they are deliberately trying to run the network into the ground…
valiant said:
It’s no surprise to those that use trains regularly or work on them that discretionary leisure travel has returned with aplomb with ridership above pre-pandemic levels and yet we’re still to see the government via the DfT and the RDG take advantage of it. In fact it was just announced that Avanti will be reducing services further until Christmas. (Haven’t said which Christmas though…)
It’s almost as if they are deliberately trying to run the network into the ground…
The problem of course is that leisure travel isn’t as profitable as the pre-Covid traditional staple of season ticket holders on their commutes. Not to mention a very big downturn in folk travelling First Class. Whilst the numbers travelling are very clear, government will rightly or wrongly cling to falling revenues as justification for the lack of investment. The recent intentions to take the axe to ticket offices seems to have suffered some short terms setbacks, so doutbless that’s even less money to spend on the actual provision of services for the time being.It’s almost as if they are deliberately trying to run the network into the ground…
The best fun is when you get on with a reserved seat for a long journey and the electronic indicator is down which is not uncommon
There is usually a tannoy announcement apologising then saying its a free for all and play nice
Which is great until you get half way through a 3h trip and it miraculously comes to life just as you pull into a busy station and double the number of people get on than the number of seats available leading to a mishmash of Squid and Hunger Games
Its just so much different and cheaper on mainland Europe, we have a joke rail network
I frequently travel the World's oldest coast to coast line (Newcastle to Carlisle) and often have to stand the entire journey.
Whilst they steadfastly refuse to put more than 2 carriages on, even on a match day, they have at least got shot of the pacers and put on some slightly better refurbished units
The staff and general civility has improved greatly since it went to Northern but the 2 carriages thing is a real bug bear. I often ponder what they could do to this line with just a drop of the white elephant, sorry HS2, money.
Whilst they steadfastly refuse to put more than 2 carriages on, even on a match day, they have at least got shot of the pacers and put on some slightly better refurbished units
The staff and general civility has improved greatly since it went to Northern but the 2 carriages thing is a real bug bear. I often ponder what they could do to this line with just a drop of the white elephant, sorry HS2, money.
Lotobear said:
I frequently travel the World's oldest coast to coast line (Newcastle to Carlisle) and often have to stand the entire journey.
Whilst they steadfastly refuse to put more than 2 carriages on, even on a match day, they have at least got shot of the pacers and put on some slightly better refurbished units
The staff and general civility has improved greatly since it went to Northern but the 2 carriages thing is a real bug bear. I often ponder what they could do to this line with just a drop of the white elephant, sorry HS2, money.
Of course, if they’d kept the Pacers you might now have four coaches! Whilst they steadfastly refuse to put more than 2 carriages on, even on a match day, they have at least got shot of the pacers and put on some slightly better refurbished units
The staff and general civility has improved greatly since it went to Northern but the 2 carriages thing is a real bug bear. I often ponder what they could do to this line with just a drop of the white elephant, sorry HS2, money.
The same thing happened in Wales, off to the scrapper they all went while people were crammed into inadequate length trains. Political point scoring at its finest!
Lotobear said:
I frequently travel the World's oldest coast to coast line (Newcastle to Carlisle) and often have to stand the entire journey.
Whilst they steadfastly refuse to put more than 2 carriages on, even on a match day, they have at least got shot of the pacers and put on some slightly better refurbished units
The staff and general civility has improved greatly since it went to Northern but the 2 carriages thing is a real bug bear. I often ponder what they could do to this line with just a drop of the white elephant, sorry HS2, money.
HS2 would help with service frequency, the sWhilst they steadfastly refuse to put more than 2 carriages on, even on a match day, they have at least got shot of the pacers and put on some slightly better refurbished units
The staff and general civility has improved greatly since it went to Northern but the 2 carriages thing is a real bug bear. I often ponder what they could do to this line with just a drop of the white elephant, sorry HS2, money.
tty rolling stock decisions are down to the fkwitted way rail works in the UK with train operating cos and rolling stock cos (plus fkwitted govt decisions) rather than integrated operation.ChocolateFrog said:
demic said:
darkyoung1000 said:
LesXRN said:
The best way to guarantee yourself a seat with nobody sat next to you is to become a train driver.
I have a cab pass to change that 
k off face to ensure my solitude 
The Gauge said:
Anyone here work on the trains and can explain why coaches always seem to be overcrowded pease?
The last few train journeys I've made have been a nightmare with overcrowded coaches, standing room only and arguments over reserved seats. ;ve experienced this on routes from Sheffield to York & Leeds (which I think is the Bristol to Edinburgh line?) etc.
When the train pulls into the station all the seats are full, a few passengers get off but even more get on. Standing room only with passengers stood down the main aisles of the coaches. When the train makes a stop, a few get off, those standing rush for the few seats that have become vacant, more passengers get on etc. It all makes for a tense and uncomfortable passenger experience.
I realise the train companies don't know when open day tickets holders will choose to ride, but this seems common place with recent train journeys I've made.
Is all this because it's impossible for the train companies to predict how many passengers they are going to have on any given day, or are they purposely not putting enough coaches on the trains, or purposely over selling tickets to maximise sales income?
A couple of thoughts:The last few train journeys I've made have been a nightmare with overcrowded coaches, standing room only and arguments over reserved seats. ;ve experienced this on routes from Sheffield to York & Leeds (which I think is the Bristol to Edinburgh line?) etc.
When the train pulls into the station all the seats are full, a few passengers get off but even more get on. Standing room only with passengers stood down the main aisles of the coaches. When the train makes a stop, a few get off, those standing rush for the few seats that have become vacant, more passengers get on etc. It all makes for a tense and uncomfortable passenger experience.
I realise the train companies don't know when open day tickets holders will choose to ride, but this seems common place with recent train journeys I've made.
Is all this because it's impossible for the train companies to predict how many passengers they are going to have on any given day, or are they purposely not putting enough coaches on the trains, or purposely over selling tickets to maximise sales income?
1. While I agree that overcrowding is an issue, I also observe that it's sometimes down to the way people use the available space. Finding an unoccupied pair of seats and sitting on the aisle side effectively means the window seat is taken too, because many people won't ask to sit there. See also bags on seats.
2. I view overcrowding in the same way as sitting in a traffic jam. You've bought a ticket, possibly even reserved a seat - therefore you should have the right to sit down and be carried on your journey in a timely and comfortable manner. On the road, you pay road tax and tax on your fuel, so you have bought the right to travel anywhere you want to, at a time that suits you. The reality of both is not like that, so you build in a degree of tolerance.
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