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WhereamI
6,169 posts
86 months
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Edinburger said: There are viable alternatives to socialism - including the SNP - perhaps they would attract more votes in an independent Scotland. Why do you think new parties, who could be more alternatives to socialism, won't appear soon or post-independence? The SNP are socialists. "a left leaning nationalist party" to use their own description of themselves
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Edinburger
2,327 posts
37 months
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WhereamI said: Edinburger said: There are viable alternatives to socialism - including the SNP - perhaps they would attract more votes in an independent Scotland. Why do you think new parties, who could be more alternatives to socialism, won't appear soon or post-independence? The SNP are socialists. "a left leaning nationalist party" to use their own description of themselves All this left wing / right wing talk which dominates many threads on pistonheads is antiquated jargon. They may be slightly left leaning but are more right than many of the alternatives, as shown previously.
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Wombat3
5,192 posts
75 months
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deadslow said: Wombat3 said: Direct connection suggested between places/type of education & ability indicates more chips than McDonalds. No, not at all. The current professional political class at Westminster are massively out of touch with real life. A lot of people do not see their relevance. Maybe you are not aware of this. I'd prefer my government in Embra. They people there might have the first clue what's going on in my reality. And you highlight just those educated at say Oxford - just by chance. Oh look that's the PM (1st class honours degree I think) and the Chancellor. OTOH we also have the one-eye'd son-of-the-Manse, the Beast of Bolsover & more recently the likes of Jim Devine, Alan "the Postie" Johnson & Margaret Moran, in there. So Westminster MP's come from all walks of life and represent all sorts of backgrounds. But of course you only mention (and hold accountable) just the one. No, no chips at all, no siree...! 
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s2art
13,191 posts
122 months
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WhereamI said: The SNP are socialists. "a left leaning nationalist party" to use their own description of themselves Hmmm, that reminds me of another party description, from the 1920's and 30's. Any signs of an authoritarian streak in the SNP yet?
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WhereamI
6,169 posts
86 months
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Edinburger said: WhereamI said: Edinburger said: There are viable alternatives to socialism - including the SNP - perhaps they would attract more votes in an independent Scotland. Why do you think new parties, who could be more alternatives to socialism, won't appear soon or post-independence? The SNP are socialists. "a left leaning nationalist party" to use their own description of themselves All this left wing / right wing talk which dominates many threads on pistonheads is antiquated jargon. They may be slightly left leaning but are more right than many of the alternatives, as shown previously. "Left leaning" are their words, just google SNP and see what it says. Those words are from their website so presumably depict how they see themselves. So not much of a viable alternative to socialism to many people.
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deadslow
3,183 posts
92 months
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Wombat3 said: deadslow said: Wombat3 said: Direct connection suggested between places/type of education & ability indicates more chips than McDonalds. No, not at all. The current professional political class at Westminster are massively out of touch with real life. A lot of people do not see their relevance. Maybe you are not aware of this. I'd prefer my government in Embra. They people there might have the first clue what's going on in my reality. And you highlight just those educated at say Oxford - just by chance. Oh look that's the PM (1st class honours degree I think) and the Chancellor. OTOH we also have the one-eye'd son-of-the-Manse, the Beast of Bolsover & more recently the likes of Jim Devine, Alan "the Postie" Johnson & Margaret Moran, in there. So Westminster MP's come from all walks of life and represent all sorts of backgrounds. But of course you only mention (and hold accountable) just the one. No, no chips at all, no siree...! Pal, you seem very angry. If you do not see or do not accept my point of view, that's fine, but you don't know me, so please don't make daft assumptions about me.
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AstonZagato
3,231 posts
79 months
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Edinburger said: WhereamI said: Edinburger said: There are viable alternatives to socialism - including the SNP - perhaps they would attract more votes in an independent Scotland. Why do you think new parties, who could be more alternatives to socialism, won't appear soon or post-independence? The SNP are socialists. "a left leaning nationalist party" to use their own description of themselves All this left wing / right wing talk which dominates many threads on pistonheads is antiquated jargon. They may be slightly left leaning but are more right than many of the alternatives, as shown previously.  SNP to the left of labour according to the Political Compass
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WhereamI
6,169 posts
86 months
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s2art said: WhereamI said: The SNP are socialists. "a left leaning nationalist party" to use their own description of themselves Hmmm, that reminds me of another party description, from the 1920's and 30's. Any signs of an authoritarian streak in the SNP yet? Well, since you ask, SNP: world beaters in authoritarianism
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Wombat3
5,192 posts
75 months
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deadslow said: Wombat3 said: deadslow said: Wombat3 said: Direct connection suggested between places/type of education & ability indicates more chips than McDonalds. No, not at all. The current professional political class at Westminster are massively out of touch with real life. A lot of people do not see their relevance. Maybe you are not aware of this. I'd prefer my government in Embra. They people there might have the first clue what's going on in my reality. And you highlight just those educated at say Oxford - just by chance. Oh look that's the PM (1st class honours degree I think) and the Chancellor. OTOH we also have the one-eye'd son-of-the-Manse, the Beast of Bolsover & more recently the likes of Jim Devine, Alan "the Postie" Johnson & Margaret Moran, in there. So Westminster MP's come from all walks of life and represent all sorts of backgrounds. But of course you only mention (and hold accountable) just the one. No, no chips at all, no siree...! Pal, you seem very angry. If you do not see or do not accept my point of view, that's fine, but you don't know me, so please don't make daft assumptions about me. Angry to an extent, but mostly bored of class prejudice and it reeks out of many Nationalist supporting types. We have some highly intelligent people now running the government trying to solve a quite possibly insoluble puzzle - but because its not all fixed in 5 minutes flat they get pillioried. They are not the ones who caused the current mess but increasingly they seem to be held accountable for it by those that simply seek political advantage - and not least of those doing that are the SNP/Nationalists. Its kindegarten politics that achieves little & frankly it pisses me off.
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Caulkhead
4,938 posts
26 months
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Edinburger said: Caulkhead said: deadslow said: Caulkhead said: deadslow said: Caulkhead said: The only laughable thing on here is that some people think Salmond is anything other than a self-serving politician just like all the others. It will be a harsh lesson in 2014. I'm sure none of us expect Salmond to be anything other than what he is. He is a known quantity, and the performance of his government is also a known quantity, in Scotland. The modern trend for Oxbridge/PPE grad/bufoon politicians at Westminster just looks generally irrelevant to a lot of people sitting in the rain up here in Scotland. Westminster to some Scots is probably become akin to Brussels to English UKIP/Tory supporters. We think we can do better job running our own affairs. No offence to anyone, and no hatred of any other national group. The problem with that is, there is a huge gulf between you thinking you can do better and the actuality. In theory, I agree you could do better. In reality you will elect labour socialists to bankrupt you. There is no credible alternative to socialism in Scottish politics. Sorry, I seem to be expressing myself in less than clear terms, or at least, we may be talking about different things. I am not saying we will do better than you, or anyone else. But we would prefer to be making our own decisions. Scottish politicians will be no more effective than politicians anywhere, save for the advantage of being a bit nearer to the people affected by their governance. The argument on here resembles a couple who are splitting up. Probably no-one's fault, both nice people, but one just wants to go their own way. Maybe it will only be a trial separation, who knows? But you can't keep them a prisoner, and slagging them off is daft, since deep down they are both great pals. When you say 'we', you mean people who agree with you, not Scots en masse. As I keep having to repeat, I'm for independence, but not until Scotland is capable of electing post-independence governments that won't bankrupt the fledgeling country. Until the average Scot can stop voting socialist this will not happen and independence will be a short lived failure, not the long-lived success I want. There should be no attempt at independence until Scotland has a viable alternative to socialism to vote for. There are viable alternatives to socialism - including the SNP - perhaps they would attract more votes in an independent Scotland. Why do you think new parties, who could be more alternatives to socialism, won't appear soon or post-independence? The fact that you don't think the SNP are socialists makes my point admirably.
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deadslow
3,183 posts
92 months
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Caulkhead said: deadslow said: Caulkhead said: deadslow said: Caulkhead said: The only laughable thing on here is that some people think Salmond is anything other than a self-serving politician just like all the others. It will be a harsh lesson in 2014. I'm sure none of us expect Salmond to be anything other than what he is. He is a known quantity, and the performance of his government is also a known quantity, in Scotland. The modern trend for Oxbridge/PPE grad/bufoon politicians at Westminster just looks generally irrelevant to a lot of people sitting in the rain up here in Scotland. Westminster to some Scots is probably become akin to Brussels to English UKIP/Tory supporters. We think we can do better job running our own affairs. No offence to anyone, and no hatred of any other national group. The problem with that is, there is a huge gulf between you thinking you can do better and the actuality. In theory, I agree you could do better. In reality you will elect labour socialists to bankrupt you. There is no credible alternative to socialism in Scottish politics. Sorry, I seem to be expressing myself in less than clear terms, or at least, we may be talking about different things. I am not saying we will do better than you, or anyone else. But we would prefer to be making our own decisions. Scottish politicians will be no more effective than politicians anywhere, save for the advantage of being a bit nearer to the people affected by their governance. The argument on here resembles a couple who are splitting up. Probably no-one's fault, both nice people, but one just wants to go their own way. Maybe it will only be a trial separation, who knows? But you can't keep them a prisoner, and slagging them off is daft, since deep down they are both great pals. When you say 'we', you mean people who agree with you, not Scots en masse. As I keep having to repeat, I'm for independence, but not until Scotland is capable of electing post-independence governments that won't bankrupt the fledgeling country. Until the average Scot can stop voting socialist this will not happen and independence will be a short lived failure, not the long-lived success I want. There should be no attempt at independence until Scotland has a viable alternative to socialism to vote for. Thanks, I do already know what I mean. If you wish to know exactly what I mean, please feel free to ask, don't assume you may know. So far as constantly having to repeat your pro-independence credentials, but only on your own personal terms, fine. No need to repeat it again. The government in Scotland is too big. I consider this to be a legacy of being 'looked after' for too long. However, we (that's all the Scots) are not living in a socialist state, not, I believe, would we wish to in the foreseeable future.
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WhereamI
6,169 posts
86 months
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deadslow said: However, we (that's all the Scots) are not living in a socialist state, not, I believe, would we wish to in the foreseeable future. You aren't? Really? Wow, that's delusional in the extreme.
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deadslow
3,183 posts
92 months
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WhereamI said: deadslow said: However, we (that's all the Scots) are not living in a socialist state, not, I believe, would we wish to in the foreseeable future. You aren't? Really? Wow, that's delusional in the extreme. No need for daft pretend sarcasm, but sorry, I don't understand.
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WhereamI
6,169 posts
86 months
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deadslow said: WhereamI said: deadslow said: However, we (that's all the Scots) are not living in a socialist state, not, I believe, would we wish to in the foreseeable future. You aren't? Really? Wow, that's delusional in the extreme. No need for daft pretend sarcasm, but sorry, I don't understand. Well let me spell it out for you. You are deluded if you think that Scotland is not currently a socialist state. Scotland needs to cut around 20% of its current public expenditure if it is to balance its budget, something that is going to be essential when it hasnt got its own currency. That means that the current SNP policies of free prescriptions, free higher education etc., which many would describe as socialist policies, are likely to have to go.
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deadslow
3,183 posts
92 months
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WhereamI said: Well let me spell it out for you. You are deluded Sorry, pal, no need to be that unpleasant - its Friday night - make your point, but be nice.
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WhereamI
6,169 posts
86 months
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deadslow said: Sorry, pal, no need to be that unpleasant - its Friday night - make your point, but be nice. Right, so that's the part of my post you pick, no attempt to tackle the substantive point just going to try and accuse me of not being nice!
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ViperPict
8,448 posts
106 months
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isoimp said: An article by Cochrane?! REALLY  indeed 
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deadslow
3,183 posts
92 months
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WhereamI said: deadslow said: Sorry, pal, no need to be that unpleasant - its Friday night - make your point, but be nice. Right, so that's the part of my post you pick, no attempt to tackle the substantive point just going to try and accuse me of not being nice! Friend, 'not being nice' is a euphemism for what you are on this thread. Calm down, take a break. Look up 'simple common courtesy'. State your points, forget the insults.
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Caulkhead
4,938 posts
26 months
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deadslow said: WhereamI said: deadslow said: Sorry, pal, no need to be that unpleasant - its Friday night - make your point, but be nice. Right, so that's the part of my post you pick, no attempt to tackle the substantive point just going to try and accuse me of not being nice! Friend, 'not being nice' is a euphemism for what you are on this thread. Calm down, take a break. Look up 'simple common courtesy'. State your points, forget the insults. Calling someone deluded is no more an insult than telling someone to 'Pull your neck in' because they disagree with you, as you did to me last week on this thread. If you're going to try the moral high ground, try to be consistent.
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TheHeretic
68,270 posts
124 months
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it is a tactic. Ignore it.
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king bunch of tossers
