Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
bhstewie said:
chrispmartha said:
As opposed to the current tory government who just like to ounch down and demonise those less fortunate.
It's an odd one isn't it?Part of me does think it's just a bit of "red meat" to appeal to more traditional Labour voters.
But if you asked me to make a list of all the groups in society that I'm going to feel sorry for I'm afraid people sending their kids to private school who are now going to have to pay a little more to do so are some way down that list.
I wouldn't mind if half the people making a fuss about this seemed so bothered when Rashford was trying to make sure kids got fed during a pandemic.
Priorities eh.
redrabbit said:
As someone with two kids in private education, I can offer no defence as to why the fees should be VAT exempt.
Because there's no downside to the state for kids educated in the private sector, it's all wins - they remove a burden on the state, pay the same amount of income tax and generate more jobs. All while raising standards and benefiting the kids rather than the parents. It's better justified than not having VAT on kids clothing.768 said:
redrabbit said:
As someone with two kids in private education, I can offer no defence as to why the fees should be VAT exempt.
Because there's no downside to the state for kids educated in the private sector, it's all wins - they remove a burden on the state, pay the same amount of income tax and generate more jobs. All while raising standards and benefiting the kids rather than the parents. It's better justified than not having VAT on kids clothing.redrabbit said:
bhstewie said:
chrispmartha said:
As opposed to the current tory government who just like to ounch down and demonise those less fortunate.
It's an odd one isn't it?Part of me does think it's just a bit of "red meat" to appeal to more traditional Labour voters.
But if you asked me to make a list of all the groups in society that I'm going to feel sorry for I'm afraid people sending their kids to private school who are now going to have to pay a little more to do so are some way down that list.
I wouldn't mind if half the people making a fuss about this seemed so bothered when Rashford was trying to make sure kids got fed during a pandemic.
Priorities eh.
Universities don't charge VAT for example.
Edited by 98elise on Saturday 20th April 19:09
Was waiting for BS to highlight this but he must have missed it.
https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/politics/cal...
Only joking.
https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/politics/cal...
link said:
Labour pulls support from Calderdale Council election candidate Khuram Majid over retweets
Outed by hope not hate apparently. Only joking.
redrabbit said:
As someone with two kids in private education, I can offer no defence as to why the fees should be VAT exempt. Like many (most?) others, it's obvious that the school does nothing meaningful / the bare minimum to justify charitable status, so by any objective measure there is no logical reason that VAT isn't applicable. I may not like it, and if it happens I'll have difficult decisions to make, but I'm not obtuse enough to think that introducing VAT would be the 'politics of envy'. I'm quite clear that I'm buying my kids an advantage, and equally clear I'm not doing anyone a favour by having my kids outside the state sector. If push comes to shove I'll just have to decide if that advantage is sufficient to justify the increased expense. End of.
Agree. Vanden Saab said:
Was waiting for BS to highlight this but he must have missed it.
https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/politics/cal...
Don't be daft I haven't "missed" anything nobody is covering this at all so there's nothing to miss.https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/politics/cal...
link said:
Labour pulls support from Calderdale Council election candidate Khuram Majid over retweets
Google barely thinks he exists and there's an article on Guido and the one you posted and that looks to be it.
Vanden Saab said:
Was waiting for BS to highlight this but he must have missed it.
https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/politics/cal...
Only joking.
I'm not sure what point you are making here? Labour have pulled suport from a candidate they believe may be unsuitable? Surely that's a good thing, isn't it? https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/politics/cal...
link said:
Labour pulls support from Calderdale Council election candidate Khuram Majid over retweets
Outed by hope not hate apparently. Only joking.
Speed 3 said:
biggbn said:
I'm not sure what point you are making here? Labour have pulled support from a candidate they believe may be unsuitable? Surely that's a good thing, isn't it?
Makes a refreshing change from the doubling down we've had from those in power for the last decade.(they're all as bad as one another)
redrabbit said:
As someone with two kids in private education, I can offer no defence as to why the fees should be VAT exempt. Like many (most?) others, it's obvious that the school does nothing meaningful / the bare minimum to justify charitable status, so by any objective measure there is no logical reason that VAT isn't applicable. I may not like it, and if it happens I'll have difficult decisions to make, but I'm not obtuse enough to think that introducing VAT would be the 'politics of envy'. I'm quite clear that I'm buying my kids an advantage, and equally clear I'm not doing anyone a favour by having my kids outside the state sector. If push comes to shove I'll just have to decide if that advantage is sufficient to justify the increased expense. End of.
FWIW, my wife is left of centre politics wise and also an education consultant. She doesn't believe there's any upside to this policy and that when you look at the data, you are doing others a favour.biggbn said:
Vanden Saab said:
Was waiting for BS to highlight this but he must have missed it.
https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/politics/cal...
Only joking.
I'm not sure what point you are making here? Labour have pulled suport from a candidate they believe may be unsuitable? Surely that's a good thing, isn't it? https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/politics/cal...
link said:
Labour pulls support from Calderdale Council election candidate Khuram Majid over retweets
Outed by hope not hate apparently. Only joking.
The VAT on Indie schools thing is either a bit of a strange play by SKS or it’s a bit of hardball professional politics.
It’s a crap policy in economic, social or long term electoral reality, but it’s a great red meat policy. It’s a hammer the middle classes policy, it’s simply yet another one to extract £000s from them. Middle to longer term it alienates the mob who put you in power.
But, I wonder if frankly he has no intention of doing this. It’s red meat he can offer up to all the left wing ppl and they all cheer. It’s a nice bit of making his ppl feel good, united, happy and smiling together as they go into the GE. This is good party management, it’s good in house politics. I wonder if, once in power, it doesn’t happen. Or it gets “trialled”, or put out for consultation, or something to fudge it. Because why ps off all those middle class voters when you don’t have to? Yes, it pisses off all your ppl in your tent, but frankly they are irrelevant for the next 4yrs and you just kicked the Tories out, so you can afford to irritate them.
I wonder sometimes if we do SKS a disservice and he is a bit more than he gets credit for.
It’s a crap policy in economic, social or long term electoral reality, but it’s a great red meat policy. It’s a hammer the middle classes policy, it’s simply yet another one to extract £000s from them. Middle to longer term it alienates the mob who put you in power.
But, I wonder if frankly he has no intention of doing this. It’s red meat he can offer up to all the left wing ppl and they all cheer. It’s a nice bit of making his ppl feel good, united, happy and smiling together as they go into the GE. This is good party management, it’s good in house politics. I wonder if, once in power, it doesn’t happen. Or it gets “trialled”, or put out for consultation, or something to fudge it. Because why ps off all those middle class voters when you don’t have to? Yes, it pisses off all your ppl in your tent, but frankly they are irrelevant for the next 4yrs and you just kicked the Tories out, so you can afford to irritate them.
I wonder sometimes if we do SKS a disservice and he is a bit more than he gets credit for.
Vanden Saab said:
biggbn said:
Vanden Saab said:
Was waiting for BS to highlight this but he must have missed it.
https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/politics/cal...
Only joking.
I'm not sure what point you are making here? Labour have pulled suport from a candidate they believe may be unsuitable? Surely that's a good thing, isn't it? https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/politics/cal...
link said:
Labour pulls support from Calderdale Council election candidate Khuram Majid over retweets
Outed by hope not hate apparently. Only joking.
Edited by biggbn on Monday 22 April 06:31
Mr Penguin said:
Except he needs those votes to get in and this single policy will scare many of the people he wants to vote Labour or at least not vote Conservative. He could also be looking ahead at a coalition talk where he has something to give away.
Of course it won’t - we will just pay a bit more. Voting Conservative is simply not an option for many people after the last 5 years. S600BSB said:
Mr Penguin said:
Except he needs those votes to get in and this single policy will scare many of the people he wants to vote Labour or at least not vote Conservative. He could also be looking ahead at a coalition talk where he has something to give away.
Of course it won’t - we will just pay a bit more. Voting Conservative is simply not an option for many people after the last 5 years. The middle classes have had some serious tax rises heaped on them over the last decade, squeezing them more will do no govt much good in the foreseeable future.
Under Labour governments some of the very best TV programmes have been made or have returned I give as evidence:
Doctor Who's return in 2005 - Labour
The Avengers: The Emma Peel years - Labour
Space 1999 - Labour
Thunderbirds -Labour
Spooks - Labour
Life on Mars/ Ashes to Ashes - Labour
This isn't just coincidence and may just be the thing that swings it to voters who like good telly
Doctor Who's return in 2005 - Labour
The Avengers: The Emma Peel years - Labour
Space 1999 - Labour
Thunderbirds -Labour
Spooks - Labour
Life on Mars/ Ashes to Ashes - Labour
This isn't just coincidence and may just be the thing that swings it to voters who like good telly
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