Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)

Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)

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Gecko1978

9,728 posts

158 months

Saturday 20th April
quotequote all
bhstewie said:
chrispmartha said:
As opposed to the current tory government who just like to ounch down and demonise those less fortunate.
It's an odd one isn't it?

Part of me does think it's just a bit of "red meat" to appeal to more traditional Labour voters.

But if you asked me to make a list of all the groups in society that I'm going to feel sorry for I'm afraid people sending their kids to private school who are now going to have to pay a little more to do so are some way down that list.

I wouldn't mind if half the people making a fuss about this seemed so bothered when Rashford was trying to make sure kids got fed during a pandemic.

Priorities eh.
Well for me 20% is 8k which means earning another 16k sucks but is what is is. What it won't do is improve outcomes for kids in underperforming schools. Parents should be angry they pay tax (as does every working person) and standards are poor. Example wait to see education psychologists state sector 4 years. Independent schools 1 week. Those kids who never get help still won't but now they will have to share the fewer school places with more kids.

768

13,705 posts

97 months

Saturday 20th April
quotequote all
redrabbit said:
As someone with two kids in private education, I can offer no defence as to why the fees should be VAT exempt.
Because there's no downside to the state for kids educated in the private sector, it's all wins - they remove a burden on the state, pay the same amount of income tax and generate more jobs. All while raising standards and benefiting the kids rather than the parents. It's better justified than not having VAT on kids clothing.

Gecko1978

9,728 posts

158 months

Saturday 20th April
quotequote all
768 said:
redrabbit said:
As someone with two kids in private education, I can offer no defence as to why the fees should be VAT exempt.
Because there's no downside to the state for kids educated in the private sector, it's all wins - they remove a burden on the state, pay the same amount of income tax and generate more jobs. All while raising standards and benefiting the kids rather than the parents. It's better justified than not having VAT on kids clothing.
This in essence the state and parents with kids in state school win as less a burden and everyone still pays tax. Course you could argue we could just have less kids then even lower burden etc. Truth is its an Envy tax but so be it if people vote for it.

98elise

26,644 posts

162 months

Saturday 20th April
quotequote all
redrabbit said:
bhstewie said:
chrispmartha said:
As opposed to the current tory government who just like to ounch down and demonise those less fortunate.
It's an odd one isn't it?

Part of me does think it's just a bit of "red meat" to appeal to more traditional Labour voters.

But if you asked me to make a list of all the groups in society that I'm going to feel sorry for I'm afraid people sending their kids to private school who are now going to have to pay a little more to do so are some way down that list.

I wouldn't mind if half the people making a fuss about this seemed so bothered when Rashford was trying to make sure kids got fed during a pandemic.

Priorities eh.
As someone with two kids in private education, I can offer no defence as to why the fees should be VAT exempt. Like many (most?) others, it's obvious that the school does nothing meaningful / the bare minimum to justify charitable status, so by any objective measure there is no logical reason that VAT isn't applicable. I may not like it, and if it happens I'll have difficult decisions to make, but I'm not obtuse enough to think that introducing VAT would be the 'politics of envy'. I'm quite clear that I'm buying my kids an advantage, and equally clear I'm not doing anyone a favour by having my kids outside the state sector. If push comes to shove I'll just have to decide if that advantage is sufficient to justify the increased expense. End of.
VAT isn't charged on education and training, and services related to education.

Universities don't charge VAT for example.

Edited by 98elise on Saturday 20th April 19:09

Vanden Saab

14,127 posts

75 months

Saturday 20th April
quotequote all
Was waiting for BS to highlight this but he must have missed it.

https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/politics/cal...

link said:
Labour pulls support from Calderdale Council election candidate Khuram Majid over retweets
Outed by hope not hate apparently.












Only joking.

andy43

9,730 posts

255 months

Saturday 20th April
quotequote all
98elise said:
VAT isn't charged on education and training, and services related to education.

Universities don't charge VAT for example.

Edited by 98elise on Saturday 20th April 19:09
Yet.

S600BSB

4,667 posts

107 months

Saturday 20th April
quotequote all
redrabbit said:
As someone with two kids in private education, I can offer no defence as to why the fees should be VAT exempt. Like many (most?) others, it's obvious that the school does nothing meaningful / the bare minimum to justify charitable status, so by any objective measure there is no logical reason that VAT isn't applicable. I may not like it, and if it happens I'll have difficult decisions to make, but I'm not obtuse enough to think that introducing VAT would be the 'politics of envy'. I'm quite clear that I'm buying my kids an advantage, and equally clear I'm not doing anyone a favour by having my kids outside the state sector. If push comes to shove I'll just have to decide if that advantage is sufficient to justify the increased expense. End of.
Agree.

bitchstewie

51,379 posts

211 months

Sunday 21st April
quotequote all
Vanden Saab said:
Was waiting for BS to highlight this but he must have missed it.

https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/politics/cal...

link said:
Labour pulls support from Calderdale Council election candidate Khuram Majid over retweets
Don't be daft I haven't "missed" anything nobody is covering this at all so there's nothing to miss.

Google barely thinks he exists and there's an article on Guido and the one you posted and that looks to be it.

biggbn

23,433 posts

221 months

Sunday 21st April
quotequote all
Vanden Saab said:
Was waiting for BS to highlight this but he must have missed it.

https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/politics/cal...

link said:
Labour pulls support from Calderdale Council election candidate Khuram Majid over retweets
Outed by hope not hate apparently.












Only joking.
I'm not sure what point you are making here? Labour have pulled suport from a candidate they believe may be unsuitable? Surely that's a good thing, isn't it?

Speed 3

4,591 posts

120 months

Sunday 21st April
quotequote all
biggbn said:
I'm not sure what point you are making here? Labour have pulled support from a candidate they believe may be unsuitable? Surely that's a good thing, isn't it?
Makes a refreshing change from the doubling down we've had from those in power for the last decade.

Wombat3

12,195 posts

207 months

Sunday 21st April
quotequote all
Speed 3 said:
biggbn said:
I'm not sure what point you are making here? Labour have pulled support from a candidate they believe may be unsuitable? Surely that's a good thing, isn't it?
Makes a refreshing change from the doubling down we've had from those in power for the last decade.
See also Angela Rayner

(they're all as bad as one another)

Mr Penguin

1,239 posts

40 months

Sunday 21st April
quotequote all
It's worrying that they have so little interest in vetting who they elect that they don't even read six months of tweets or that nobody in the local Labour Party who might have seen it at the time thought to tell him that it wasn't on.

MaxFromage

1,891 posts

132 months

Sunday 21st April
quotequote all
redrabbit said:
As someone with two kids in private education, I can offer no defence as to why the fees should be VAT exempt. Like many (most?) others, it's obvious that the school does nothing meaningful / the bare minimum to justify charitable status, so by any objective measure there is no logical reason that VAT isn't applicable. I may not like it, and if it happens I'll have difficult decisions to make, but I'm not obtuse enough to think that introducing VAT would be the 'politics of envy'. I'm quite clear that I'm buying my kids an advantage, and equally clear I'm not doing anyone a favour by having my kids outside the state sector. If push comes to shove I'll just have to decide if that advantage is sufficient to justify the increased expense. End of.
FWIW, my wife is left of centre politics wise and also an education consultant. She doesn't believe there's any upside to this policy and that when you look at the data, you are doing others a favour.

Vanden Saab

14,127 posts

75 months

Sunday 21st April
quotequote all
biggbn said:
Vanden Saab said:
Was waiting for BS to highlight this but he must have missed it.

https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/politics/cal...

link said:
Labour pulls support from Calderdale Council election candidate Khuram Majid over retweets
Outed by hope not hate apparently.












Only joking.
I'm not sure what point you are making here? Labour have pulled suport from a candidate they believe may be unsuitable? Surely that's a good thing, isn't it?
It was a reference to hope not hates outing of reform candidates while ignoring Labour candidates with similar dodgy social media posts., along with a little dig at bh for once again missing a dodgy Labour candidate. Nice to have you back by the way I always enjoy your posts even if I often disagree with them. beer

DeejRC

5,811 posts

83 months

Monday 22nd April
quotequote all
The VAT on Indie schools thing is either a bit of a strange play by SKS or it’s a bit of hardball professional politics.
It’s a crap policy in economic, social or long term electoral reality, but it’s a great red meat policy. It’s a hammer the middle classes policy, it’s simply yet another one to extract £000s from them. Middle to longer term it alienates the mob who put you in power.
But, I wonder if frankly he has no intention of doing this. It’s red meat he can offer up to all the left wing ppl and they all cheer. It’s a nice bit of making his ppl feel good, united, happy and smiling together as they go into the GE. This is good party management, it’s good in house politics. I wonder if, once in power, it doesn’t happen. Or it gets “trialled”, or put out for consultation, or something to fudge it. Because why ps off all those middle class voters when you don’t have to? Yes, it pisses off all your ppl in your tent, but frankly they are irrelevant for the next 4yrs and you just kicked the Tories out, so you can afford to irritate them.
I wonder sometimes if we do SKS a disservice and he is a bit more than he gets credit for.

Mr Penguin

1,239 posts

40 months

Monday 22nd April
quotequote all
Except he needs those votes to get in and this single policy will scare many of the people he wants to vote Labour or at least not vote Conservative. He could also be looking ahead at a coalition talk where he has something to give away.

biggbn

23,433 posts

221 months

Monday 22nd April
quotequote all
Vanden Saab said:
biggbn said:
Vanden Saab said:
Was waiting for BS to highlight this but he must have missed it.

https://www.halifaxcourier.co.uk/news/politics/cal...

link said:
Labour pulls support from Calderdale Council election candidate Khuram Majid over retweets
Outed by hope not hate apparently.












Only joking.
I'm not sure what point you are making here? Labour have pulled suport from a candidate they believe may be unsuitable? Surely that's a good thing, isn't it?
It was a reference to hope not hates outing of reform candidates while ignoring Labour candidates with similar dodgy social media posts., along with a little dig at bh for once again missing a dodgy Labour candidate. Nice to have you back by the way I always enjoy your posts even if I often disagree with them. beer
That is very kind of you to say. I'm not on as much these days, but had a lazy Sunday yesterday, killing time! Take care and have a wonderful week, peace and love, gbn x beer

Edited by biggbn on Monday 22 April 06:31

S600BSB

4,667 posts

107 months

Monday 22nd April
quotequote all
Mr Penguin said:
Except he needs those votes to get in and this single policy will scare many of the people he wants to vote Labour or at least not vote Conservative. He could also be looking ahead at a coalition talk where he has something to give away.
Of course it won’t - we will just pay a bit more. Voting Conservative is simply not an option for many people after the last 5 years.

DeejRC

5,811 posts

83 months

Monday 22nd April
quotequote all
S600BSB said:
Mr Penguin said:
Except he needs those votes to get in and this single policy will scare many of the people he wants to vote Labour or at least not vote Conservative. He could also be looking ahead at a coalition talk where he has something to give away.
Of course it won’t - we will just pay a bit more. Voting Conservative is simply not an option for many people after the last 5 years.
I don’t normally agree with this muppet, but he is correct here. SKS has those votes locked in for this GE, England’s middle classes are not voting Tory this time around. It would appear that Scotlands middle classes are also moving away from the SNP which means Labour will pick up those votes. (That’s a very generic position I know, I try and stay away from the rabid cesspit Scottish politics)
The middle classes have had some serious tax rises heaped on them over the last decade, squeezing them more will do no govt much good in the foreseeable future.

anonymoususer

5,846 posts

49 months

Monday 22nd April
quotequote all
Under Labour governments some of the very best TV programmes have been made or have returned I give as evidence:

Doctor Who's return in 2005 - Labour
The Avengers: The Emma Peel years - Labour
Space 1999 - Labour
Thunderbirds -Labour
Spooks - Labour
Life on Mars/ Ashes to Ashes - Labour

This isn't just coincidence and may just be the thing that swings it to voters who like good telly