So are Landlords finished?
Discussion
98elise said:
It's in part a government engineered storm. Landlords are exiting because you can get similar yields from a zero risk investment that comes with tax breaks rather than tax penalties.
That storm is now starting to self correct by rising rents due to a lack of supply. They have gone mental I'm my area going up about 30% in the space of a few years.
Yeah, probably well above the mortgages people have on them.That storm is now starting to self correct by rising rents due to a lack of supply. They have gone mental I'm my area going up about 30% in the space of a few years.
UK property market is such a house of cards.
98elise said:
ATG said:
andy43 said:
Biggy Stardust said:
Olivera said:
Biggy Stardust said:
3- how does a large number of LLs cause a problem? It's the opposite of an oligopoly and allows the market to function better. How many is excessive & what would be a better system? (One which works & is possible, just to narrow the range of answers you might produce.)
I see you've completely ignored reasons 1 and 2.But on 3 - an excess of BTL investors (typically with more capital than a FTB) stokes demand and squeezes out FTBers that could otherwise afford to buy, forcing them to now rent. This isn't an even remotely contentious point, it's established fact. Hence the government and treasury have pulled various levers to dampen BTL demand.
As for 3, thinking LLs wish to outbid FTBs is foolish; why spend more than necessary? I bought cheap places that needed work, doing the work that FTBs didn't seem to want to do. I suspect I'm not unique in this.
The problems are 1 and 2.
700,000 net immigration per annum and we don’t even build enough houses - 200,000 - to house newcomers, never mind fix the existing shortage.
I don't know any Landlord that would pay over the odds for a property. The last thing you want is to be buying a property with a lot of interest in iit. You want a simple offer > acceptance > exchange > complete. Mine were all bought on a single offer, and no way I over paid (they needed work).
When I bought my first one there were 3 identical properties for sale in the same street. If someone else was offering on the one I bought, I would have simply bought one of the others, or one of the 5 or 6 I was considering elsewhere.
What has happened in Ireland with rent controls and punitive taxation of BTL landlords is that single LL’s have been forced out the market or chosen to exit
Tenants have been evicted and the homes have either been sold, many to foreign investors or bought and put back on the rental market at often 50% rent increases
So who is buying property, well huge amounts are being bought by “cuckoo funds”
They are not just buying single units but also buying entire developments of new builds. Say a Builder has 200 units for sale on a development for sale/rent .. cuckoo fund comes in and buys the lot and outbids both domestic buyers and BTL landlords and also renters
They then control the market and rent prices.
It has reduced the number of houses to buy and also the the number of rental units
One of the biggest cuckoo funds buying up developments in Ireland is German and banned from buying property in Germany
As I said before you don’t have to look very far to see how well intentioned meddling has unintended consequences
Rivenink said:
Owner occupiers, if freehold, have the power, right, ownership and choice to fix their own problems. And usually they do, because they live there and like any normal person, they don't want to live in a cold, mould infested s
thole.
Leaseholders, including owners and tenents, do not have these rights. They are utterly reliant on the landlord choosing to do things. And unless they are forced, landlords will not willingly do it, if they can collect their profits regardless of how st their property is.
Well said.thole. Leaseholders, including owners and tenents, do not have these rights. They are utterly reliant on the landlord choosing to do things. And unless they are forced, landlords will not willingly do it, if they can collect their profits regardless of how s
t their property is. Turtle Shed said:
Rivenink said:
Owner occupiers, if freehold, have the power, right, ownership and choice to fix their own problems. And usually they do, because they live there and like any normal person, they don't want to live in a cold, mould infested sthole.
Leaseholders, including owners and tenents, do not have these rights. They are utterly reliant on the landlord choosing to do things. And unless they are forced, landlords will not willingly do it, if they can collect their profits regardless of how st their property is.
Well said.thole. Leaseholders, including owners and tenents, do not have these rights. They are utterly reliant on the landlord choosing to do things. And unless they are forced, landlords will not willingly do it, if they can collect their profits regardless of how s
t their property is. Furthermore, most landlords do willingly do repairs because a stitch in time saves nine. To say otherwise is just anti-landlord rhetoric.
Turtle Shed said:
Rivenink said:
Owner occupiers, if freehold, have the power, right, ownership and choice to fix their own problems. And usually they do, because they live there and like any normal person, they don't want to live in a cold, mould infested sthole.
Leaseholders, including owners and tenents, do not have these rights. They are utterly reliant on the landlord choosing to do things. And unless they are forced, landlords will not willingly do it, if they can collect their profits regardless of how st their property is.
Well said.thole. Leaseholders, including owners and tenents, do not have these rights. They are utterly reliant on the landlord choosing to do things. And unless they are forced, landlords will not willingly do it, if they can collect their profits regardless of how s
t their property is. I had one myself, no issues at all with doing work on the property or maintenance/upgrades
Leasehold mentioned .. no trucks/vans .. ignored and no building walls round the house .. def ignored by one neighbour who turned his house into a Taliban like compound !
Lease was £75 a year
There were a couple of rented houses down my road which were a nightmare with stty tenants causing a row and the houses looking scruffy. They've both been bought by owner occupiers and the houses and road have improved drastically.
Amazing how every landlord on here fixes up a house and jumps to do work out of the goodness of their heart whereas the houses on my road and probably three quarters of the rentals I lived in had landlords who did the bare minimum or less. I guess I was just unlucky.
tty tenants causing a row and the houses looking scruffy. They've both been bought by owner occupiers and the houses and road have improved drastically.Amazing how every landlord on here fixes up a house and jumps to do work out of the goodness of their heart whereas the houses on my road and probably three quarters of the rentals I lived in had landlords who did the bare minimum or less. I guess I was just unlucky.
Killboy said:
The price is reflected by that, they are cheap and become as affordable for people to buy and get on the ladder?
After they magically more attractive because landlords are such a positive thing for renters?
It’s just a mendacious argument isn’t it.After they magically more attractive because landlords are such a positive thing for renters?
First time buyers don’t buy property like this, they don’t buy studios, they don’t buy one beds, they don’t buy places need loads of work they etc. maybe in London but in general they don’t.
I just wish they would all stop pissing about and just ban BTL, people can live in their own owned property or they can rely on the council. Give every tenant the right to buy where they live at current market rates. If not the council should be forced to buy at current ,market rates. The clowns believed Corbyns lies about a rental crisis in 2017 and created a real one let them have a bit of socialist housing for real.
nikaiyo2 said:
It’s just a mendacious argument isn’t it.
First time buyers don’t buy property like this, they don’t buy studios, they don’t buy one beds, they don’t buy places need loads of work they etc. maybe in London but in general they don’t.
Lol wut? Why not? Please don't mention "insta"First time buyers don’t buy property like this, they don’t buy studios, they don’t buy one beds, they don’t buy places need loads of work they etc. maybe in London but in general they don’t.
Louis Balfour said:
Turtle Shed said:
Rivenink said:
Owner occupiers, if freehold, have the power, right, ownership and choice to fix their own problems. And usually they do, because they live there and like any normal person, they don't want to live in a cold, mould infested sthole.
Leaseholders, including owners and tenents, do not have these rights. They are utterly reliant on the landlord choosing to do things. And unless they are forced, landlords will not willingly do it, if they can collect their profits regardless of how st their property is.
Well said.thole. Leaseholders, including owners and tenents, do not have these rights. They are utterly reliant on the landlord choosing to do things. And unless they are forced, landlords will not willingly do it, if they can collect their profits regardless of how s
t their property is. Furthermore, most landlords do willingly do repairs because a stitch in time saves nine. To say otherwise is just anti-landlord rhetoric.
t. The original point I made, that Biggy conveniently cared not to comment on, was that it is the system that is screwed up; and it is benefiting the very wealthy, at the expense of renters. At the expense of young people. At the expense of small portfolio landlords.
It should be possible for small portfolio landlords to exist in a system where there is cheap housing for people to buy if they wish, and cheap but still profitable for those who wish to service those who prefer to rent.
Instead we have houses treated as assets like any other investment asset, with conntinually inflating prices that means most people cannot afford them.
The population percentage that is owner-occupier is falling, and its not because everyone is living in socialist, council owned housing.
Rivenink said:
The original point I made, that Biggy conveniently cared not to comment on, was that it is the system that is screwed up; and it is benefiting the very wealthy, at the expense of renters. At the expense of young people. At the expense of small portfolio landlords.
Why do you think the very wealthy are culpable here, and not small landlords?Louis Balfour said:
Turtle Shed said:
Rivenink said:
Owner occupiers, if freehold, have the power, right, ownership and choice to fix their own problems. And usually they do, because they live there and like any normal person, they don't want to live in a cold, mould infested sthole.
Leaseholders, including owners and tenents, do not have these rights. They are utterly reliant on the landlord choosing to do things. And unless they are forced, landlords will not willingly do it, if they can collect their profits regardless of how st their property is.
Well said.thole. Leaseholders, including owners and tenents, do not have these rights. They are utterly reliant on the landlord choosing to do things. And unless they are forced, landlords will not willingly do it, if they can collect their profits regardless of how s
t their property is. Furthermore, most landlords do willingly do repairs because a stitch in time saves nine. To say otherwise is just anti-landlord rhetoric.
I’m seeing lots of small time landlords saying how they are all benevolent but very few tenants agreeing.
Scrimpton said:
There were a couple of rented houses down my road which were a nightmare with stty tenants causing a row and the houses looking scruffy. They've both been bought by owner occupiers and the houses and road have improved drastically.
Amazing how every landlord on here fixes up a house and jumps to do work out of the goodness of their heart whereas the houses on my road and probably three quarters of the rentals I lived in had landlords who did the bare minimum or less. I guess I was just unlucky.
Nice that the scummy tenants have left, to be replaced with nice owners prepared to maintain their gardens, but where do the tenants you didn’t like live now?tty tenants causing a row and the houses looking scruffy. They've both been bought by owner occupiers and the houses and road have improved drastically.Amazing how every landlord on here fixes up a house and jumps to do work out of the goodness of their heart whereas the houses on my road and probably three quarters of the rentals I lived in had landlords who did the bare minimum or less. I guess I was just unlucky.
Electro1980 said:
In my experience most landlords, be that rental landlords or freeholder on a lease hold, will do the absolute minimum. They will replace anything with the cheapest possible and bodge things that are not critical. Most landlords seem only interested in ensuring the property is habitable for the next few years, not that it is a nice place to live for the long term.
I’m seeing lots of small time landlords saying how they are all benevolent but very few tenants agreeing.
A BTL is an investment. Same as shares, savings accounts, gold coins. There’s no point in spending anything more than the bare minimum as the idea is to make money… and it can be quite upsetting going over and above (when inner benevolence mistakenly kicks in) and then finding it gets trashed anyway.I’m seeing lots of small time landlords saying how they are all benevolent but very few tenants agreeing.
I used to do EPCs and the state of many owner occupied places was far worse than the average BTL, certainly in terms of energy efficiency and safety.
andy43 said:
Electro1980 said:
In my experience most landlords, be that rental landlords or freeholder on a lease hold, will do the absolute minimum. They will replace anything with the cheapest possible and bodge things that are not critical. Most landlords seem only interested in ensuring the property is habitable for the next few years, not that it is a nice place to live for the long term.
I’m seeing lots of small time landlords saying how they are all benevolent but very few tenants agreeing.
A BTL is an investment. Same as shares, savings accounts, gold coins. There’s no point in spending anything more than the bare minimum as the idea is to make money… and it can be quite upsetting going over and above (when inner benevolence mistakenly kicks in) and then finding it gets trashed anyway.I’m seeing lots of small time landlords saying how they are all benevolent but very few tenants agreeing.
I used to do EPCs and the state of many owner occupied places was far worse than the average BTL, certainly in terms of energy efficiency and safety.
Puzzles said:
andy43 said:
Electro1980 said:
In my experience most landlords, be that rental landlords or freeholder on a lease hold, will do the absolute minimum. They will replace anything with the cheapest possible and bodge things that are not critical. Most landlords seem only interested in ensuring the property is habitable for the next few years, not that it is a nice place to live for the long term.
I’m seeing lots of small time landlords saying how they are all benevolent but very few tenants agreeing.
A BTL is an investment. Same as shares, savings accounts, gold coins. There’s no point in spending anything more than the bare minimum as the idea is to make money… and it can be quite upsetting going over and above (when inner benevolence mistakenly kicks in) and then finding it gets trashed anyway.I’m seeing lots of small time landlords saying how they are all benevolent but very few tenants agreeing.
I used to do EPCs and the state of many owner occupied places was far worse than the average BTL, certainly in terms of energy efficiency and safety.
Killboy said:
andy43 said:
There’s no point in spending anything more than the bare minimum as the idea is to make money…
Exactly. Rentals aren't st because of the tenants 
The only time a rental gets really s
t is because of the tenant. Mould, neighbours in tears, debt collectors, drugs… but that’s quite rare. So far <touches laminate>Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff