So are Landlords finished?
Discussion
Killboy said:
Lol wut? Why not? Please don't mention "insta"
Ex partner owned a small local chain of estate agents, have been a LL, since 2009 have bought, sold/ refurbished maybe 25 properties, not once have I been bidding against an FTB, never... I do think insta has a bit to do with it, but not only. Lets face it the costs of buying and moving are massive, this is why most FTB are not keen on one bed/ studios. It makes sense when you think about it, why tie yourself down in a one bed or studio when you know in 3 or 4 years it will no longer fit your needs.
Electro1980 said:
And yet here we are, with vast numbers of people complaining about the way they are treated by landlords and needs for ever more regulation. If the most landlords were as good as so many of them claim we wouldn’t be needing all this government intervention.
Many tenants might want more things in their favour. This is very different to your claim that we NEED more government intervention.Look at Ireland, see the problems all this 'help' has caused and understand that we are in the same path but a few years behind.
nikaiyo2 said:
Ex partner owned a small local chain of estate agents, have been a LL, since 2009 have bought, sold/ refurbished maybe 25 properties, not once have I been bidding against an FTB, never...
I do think insta has a bit to do with it, but not only. Lets face it the costs of buying and moving are massive, this is why most FTB are not keen on one bed/ studios. It makes sense when you think about it, why tie yourself down in a one bed or studio when you know in 3 or 4 years it will no longer fit your needs.
It only makes sense because by the time people can afford the deposit, they've outgrown studio flats and probably on the way to having a family. Nothing to do with showing off on "insta". I think you'd find people buying a lot sooner if they could. Ask any estate agent how many viewing they get from FTBers for a flat in London I do think insta has a bit to do with it, but not only. Lets face it the costs of buying and moving are massive, this is why most FTB are not keen on one bed/ studios. It makes sense when you think about it, why tie yourself down in a one bed or studio when you know in 3 or 4 years it will no longer fit your needs.
Killboy said:
98elise said:
Why would a tenant heat their home, or clean mould if it appears?
Let's play a game. Post a postcode near you and a radius on right move that identifies say 10 properties in your area for let.
Mine is ME5 8HN, and a radius of 1 mile (which would capture my house). It returns 16 properties for let and they all look perfectly nice. Its the Medway Towns so not some leafy london suburb. Obviously we can then cross check to see how owner occupiers compare.
That should give us some idea how terrible BTL landlords are.
I'm not sure advertising photos of rentals are a great indicator of quality.Let's play a game. Post a postcode near you and a radius on right move that identifies say 10 properties in your area for let.
Mine is ME5 8HN, and a radius of 1 mile (which would capture my house). It returns 16 properties for let and they all look perfectly nice. Its the Medway Towns so not some leafy london suburb. Obviously we can then cross check to see how owner occupiers compare.
That should give us some idea how terrible BTL landlords are.
Edited by 98elise on Thursday 25th April 09:46
tholes.When you see a faily modern freshly decorated house (which is what my search showed) you don't immediately think s
thole, especially when it's in your own area so you have some idea of the housing stock quality. As I said I'm in the Medway Towns which would meet most peoples expectations of a sthole.I was just wondering if the naysayers could show us examples from their area. A postcode and a radius stops any cherry picking.
I'll go one step further. My part of the Medway Towns is relatively nice, so let's try a more deprived part of it. Luton Road is Chatham in pretty low quality housing stock, and a notorious/deprived area. ME4 5AG and a 1/4 mile radius shows 10 properties to let. They all look pretty decent on the inside. One has some peeling wallpaper on one room, but thats hardly makes it a s
thole. On the whole they look fine.Just to give you an idea how "desirable" Luton Road is...
https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/life-luto...
"Life on Luton Road in Chatham - infamous for murder, drugs and robbery"
Edited by 98elise on Thursday 25th April 10:42
NRS said:
andy43 said:
Puzzles said:
andy43 said:
Electro1980 said:
In my experience most landlords, be that rental landlords or freeholder on a lease hold, will do the absolute minimum. They will replace anything with the cheapest possible and bodge things that are not critical. Most landlords seem only interested in ensuring the property is habitable for the next few years, not that it is a nice place to live for the long term.
I’m seeing lots of small time landlords saying how they are all benevolent but very few tenants agreeing.
A BTL is an investment. Same as shares, savings accounts, gold coins. There’s no point in spending anything more than the bare minimum as the idea is to make money… and it can be quite upsetting going over and above (when inner benevolence mistakenly kicks in) and then finding it gets trashed anyway.I’m seeing lots of small time landlords saying how they are all benevolent but very few tenants agreeing.
I used to do EPCs and the state of many owner occupied places was far worse than the average BTL, certainly in terms of energy efficiency and safety.
andy43 said:
Killboy said:
andy43 said:
There’s no point in spending anything more than the bare minimum as the idea is to make money…
Exactly. Rentals aren't st because of the tenants The only time a rental gets really s
t is because of the tenant. Mould, neighbours in tears, debt collectors, drugs… but that’s quite rare. So far <touches laminate>So imo LL do have an incentive to keep the property up to standard.
Killboy said:
It only makes sense because by the time people can afford the deposit, they've outgrown studio flats and probably on the way to having a family. Nothing to do with showing off on "insta". I think you'd find people buying a lot sooner if they could. Ask any estate agent how many viewing they get from FTBers for a flat in London
Or the £30k+ average cost to move, might have a bit to do with it. Or the relative lack of flexibility. It becomes a lot harder to move to a new city for a job opportunity or to travel if owning a property, the ability to give a months notice and move is quite advantageous. its why I said outside of London...
Without singling out anyone in particular, there are a lot of naive and politically driven opinions evident in this thread. It’s like a microcosm of the Labour Party.
Landlords do, however, need to stop with the “we’re just trying to provide a service” nonsense. It’s cringeworthy. There is nothing wrong at all with renting out property to make a profit.
The problem for landlords is that BTL is, and has been for decades, a political battleground.
Landlords do, however, need to stop with the “we’re just trying to provide a service” nonsense. It’s cringeworthy. There is nothing wrong at all with renting out property to make a profit.
The problem for landlords is that BTL is, and has been for decades, a political battleground.
Louis Balfour said:
Without singling out anyone in particular, there are a lot of naive and politically driven opinions evident in this thread. It’s like a microcosm of the Labour Party.
Landlords do, however, need to stop with the “we’re just trying to provide a service” nonsense. It’s cringeworthy. There is nothing wrong at all with renting out property to make a profit.
The problem for landlords is that BTL is, and has been for decades, a political battleground.
A lot of people on the wrong end of this will disagree: "There is nothing wrong at all with renting out property to make a profit.".Landlords do, however, need to stop with the “we’re just trying to provide a service” nonsense. It’s cringeworthy. There is nothing wrong at all with renting out property to make a profit.
The problem for landlords is that BTL is, and has been for decades, a political battleground.
A lot of a generation is paying for early retirement of another one, which is already more wealthy than they will be due to demographics. Some people might be ok with that, but many others are not. And it's a question for society if it's what we want as it's not creating growth, it's very different from doing stuff that expands the economy and makes us better off, it's just a wealth transfer.
98elise said:
It's way better than anecdotes of cold mouldy stholes.
When you see a faily modern freshly decorated house (which is what my search showed) you don't immediately think sthole, especially when it's in your own area so you have some idea of the housing stock quality. As I said I'm in the Medway Towns which would meet most peoples expectations of a sthole.
I was just wondering if the naysayers could show us examples from their area. A postcode and a radius stops any cherry picking.
Can I show you the house I bought, that was occupied by renters? tholes.When you see a faily modern freshly decorated house (which is what my search showed) you don't immediately think s
thole, especially when it's in your own area so you have some idea of the housing stock quality. As I said I'm in the Medway Towns which would meet most peoples expectations of a sthole.I was just wondering if the naysayers could show us examples from their area. A postcode and a radius stops any cherry picking.
nikaiyo2 said:
Or the £30k+ average cost to move, might have a bit to do with it. Or the relative lack of flexibility. It becomes a lot harder to move to a new city for a job opportunity or to travel if owning a property, the ability to give a months notice and move is quite advantageous.
its why I said outside of London...
But "insta"?its why I said outside of London...
It's so broken people that should be buying studios and 1 beds aren't.
Louis Balfour said:
Without singling out anyone in particular, there are a lot of naive and politically driven opinions evident in this thread. It’s like a microcosm of the Labour Party.
Landlords do, however, need to stop with the “we’re just trying to provide a service” nonsense. It’s cringeworthy. There is nothing wrong at all with renting out property to make a profit.
The problem for landlords is that BTL is, and has been for decades, a political battleground.
NOBODY has said they are JUST trying to provide a service.Landlords do, however, need to stop with the “we’re just trying to provide a service” nonsense. It’s cringeworthy. There is nothing wrong at all with renting out property to make a profit.
The problem for landlords is that BTL is, and has been for decades, a political battleground.
They do it for profit.
Bu they DO provide a service, whicj seems to be ignored.
philv said:
Louis Balfour said:
Without singling out anyone in particular, there are a lot of naive and politically driven opinions evident in this thread. It’s like a microcosm of the Labour Party.
Landlords do, however, need to stop with the “we’re just trying to provide a service” nonsense. It’s cringeworthy. There is nothing wrong at all with renting out property to make a profit.
The problem for landlords is that BTL is, and has been for decades, a political battleground.
NOBODY has said they are JUST trying to provide a service.Landlords do, however, need to stop with the “we’re just trying to provide a service” nonsense. It’s cringeworthy. There is nothing wrong at all with renting out property to make a profit.
The problem for landlords is that BTL is, and has been for decades, a political battleground.
They do it for profit.
Bu they DO provide a service, whicj seems to be ignored.
Lots of businesses exist to provide services but not at a loss
NRS said:
A lot of a generation is paying for early retirement of another one, which is already more wealthy than they will be due to demographics. Some people might be ok with that, but many others are not. And it's a question for society if it's what we want as it's not creating growth, it's very different from doing stuff that expands the economy and makes us better off, it's just a wealth transfer.
For a brief moment I thought you were discussing public sector pensions.Biggy Stardust said:
NRS said:
A lot of a generation is paying for early retirement of another one, which is already more wealthy than they will be due to demographics. Some people might be ok with that, but many others are not. And it's a question for society if it's what we want as it's not creating growth, it's very different from doing stuff that expands the economy and makes us better off, it's just a wealth transfer.
For a brief moment I thought you were discussing public sector pensions.NRS isn’t wrong and your indignation isn’t either. But nobody is doing the world a service by buying g a house and renting it out to the degree that some think they are. If you think the civil service are not productive but think landlords are you might be a bigger problem than you realise, but you’ll get plenty of other wasters agreeing with you.
Killboy said:
98elise said:
It's way better than anecdotes of cold mouldy stholes.
When you see a faily modern freshly decorated house (which is what my search showed) you don't immediately think sthole, especially when it's in your own area so you have some idea of the housing stock quality. As I said I'm in the Medway Towns which would meet most peoples expectations of a sthole.
I was just wondering if the naysayers could show us examples from their area. A postcode and a radius stops any cherry picking.
Can I show you the house I bought, that was occupied by renters? tholes.When you see a faily modern freshly decorated house (which is what my search showed) you don't immediately think s
thole, especially when it's in your own area so you have some idea of the housing stock quality. As I said I'm in the Medway Towns which would meet most peoples expectations of a sthole.I was just wondering if the naysayers could show us examples from their area. A postcode and a radius stops any cherry picking.
Feel free, but add a nearby postcode so we can see if that's typical.
One of my houses was left so bad it took me 3 months to refurbish it. When I re-let it, it had a new kitchen and had been fully re-decorated and re- carpeted. 10k total cost to me.
cheesejunkie said:
Rent takers don’t like their rights questioned. Private landlords are not necessary. But we’ve built a society where they’re needed.
If private LLs are unnecessary please tell me a viable alternative. Note the word viable, ie not a fantasy scheme.cheesejunkie said:
NRS isn’t wrong and your indignation isn’t either. But nobody is doing the world a service by buying g a house and renting it out to the degree that some think they are. If you think the civil service are not productive but think landlords are you might be a bigger problem than you realise, but you’ll get plenty of other wasters agreeing with you.
Have you considered getting a sense of humour? You seem very upset by my comment. Do you work in the public sector, perchance?Edited by Biggy Stardust on Thursday 25th April 13:25
cheesejunkie said:
Biggy Stardust said:
NRS said:
A lot of a generation is paying for early retirement of another one, which is already more wealthy than they will be due to demographics. Some people might be ok with that, but many others are not. And it's a question for society if it's what we want as it's not creating growth, it's very different from doing stuff that expands the economy and makes us better off, it's just a wealth transfer.
For a brief moment I thought you were discussing public sector pensions.NRS isn’t wrong and your indignation isn’t either. But nobody is doing the world a service by buying g a house and renting it out to the degree that some think they are. If you think the civil service are not productive but think landlords are you might be a bigger problem than you realise, but you’ll get plenty of other wasters agreeing with you.
Biggy Stardust said:
cheesejunkie said:
Rent takers don’t like their rights questioned. Private landlords are not necessary. But we’ve built a society where they’re needed.
If private LLs are unnecessary please tell me a viable alternative. Note the work viable, ie not a fantasy scheme.cheesejunkie said:
NRS isn’t wrong and your indignation isn’t either. But nobody is doing the world a service by buying g a house and renting it out to the degree that some think they are. If you think the civil service are not productive but think landlords are you might be a bigger problem than you realise, but you’ll get plenty of other wasters agreeing with you.
Have you considered getting a sense of humour? You seem very upset by my comment.I agree with your viable point. It has been rigged but I live in the real world and understand that there's no magic wand about to fix things. A viable alternative would be the government building enough housing and an executive managing the rent, but that might be too commie for you and you'd prefer a lack of facilities where some can profit by not doing very much other than having more money than others
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