Anyones spouse got an Irish passport?

Anyones spouse got an Irish passport?

Author
Discussion

weeve

179 posts

17 months

Wednesday 21st February
quotequote all
I expect it’s a power thing. He cheered right up when I told him one of my kids names translates roughly to Thunder Bear and that was what I’d put in his English passport.

PF62

3,671 posts

174 months

Wednesday 21st February
quotequote all
weeve said:
I expect it’s a power thing.
It is, and with Border Force it seemed to dramatically increase when they changed their uniform a decade or more ago to the black shirts.

JQ

5,756 posts

180 months

Wednesday 21st February
quotequote all
weeve said:
I expect it’s a power thing. He cheered right up when I told him one of my kids names translates roughly to Thunder Bear and that was what I’d put in his English passport.
One of my sons is God’s Spear Bear and my BiL is Snow Bear. biggrin

Mr Magooagain

10,037 posts

171 months

Wednesday 21st February
quotequote all
PF62 said:
Mr Magooagain said:
PF62 said:
gotoPzero said:
My Mrs is Irish and I am British. Different surnames.

We carry our marriage certificate with us just in case!
I just have a scan of it on my phone.

However once ETIAS and EES is turned on it won't be an issue as the non-EU spouse will record on their ETIAS that they are married to an EU citizen.

Then when the passports are scanned in and out of the EU, the EES system will know when the EU citizen is in the EU at the same time as the non-EU citizen to ignore those days for the 90/180 for them.
I can see some complications for some with the ETIAS and EES.
I’m an Irish passport holder but only recently and I still hold my British Passport but my wife holds only the British one. I wonder that if her passport is scanned it would show me also holding only the British one.

We also live in the EU so unlikely to have problems as any travel is mainly into the uk.
From my reading about the ETIAS process when your wife completes her application she will declare that she is married to an EU citizen and provide your EU citizen details, then when approved that ETIAS information is held on her British passport.

Therefore every time she scans in and out of the EU with EES it records her, and the system also looks for you.

Now obviously you living in the EU is a bit different, but for most dual nationality British and Irish (or other EU nationality) spouses, they will be normally in the UK and travelling into the EU.

And that is where there could be a problem if they use their British passport, as the EES system will potentially not see them arriving but will see their spouse arriving.

I say potentially because the documents I have read about EES and ETIAS don’t seem to have considered that someone might have an EU and a non-EU passport and be dumb enough to apply for ETIAS and use it with a non-EU passport even though they don’t need to.

Plus what doesn’t help is the mistaken belief that a dual nationality British and other must use the British passport to leave and enter the UK, and the Advance Passenger Information only allowing a single passport number, all of which likely results in people using the ‘wrong’ passport.
Yes I can see some ‘interesting’ interactions at uk passport control for some in the future. Personally I travel only with my Irish passport now but do also carry my French residency card.

Shnozz

27,514 posts

272 months

Wednesday 21st February
quotequote all
PF62 said:
Shnozz said:
PF62 said:
Shnozz said:
Strictly speaking, even EU citizens staying in another country should register within 90 days as I understand it. However, if the intention is to travel from one country to the next then that wouldn’t apply in your example.
Art 7 of Directive 2004/38/EC gives any EU citizen (and their family) a right to reside in any other EU country for up to three months without needing to do anything.

So yes there is no need to register for residency or do anything else if you are moving country to country and not spending more than a continuous three months in any of them, even if the total time spent in EU countries other than your country of EU citizenship is more than three months, e.g. Irish citizen spending three months in Spain then three months in Portugal then three months in Italy then three months in France, etc. etc. is absolutely fine.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?ur...
Indeed. So if you’re just aiming at one country it’s not really assisted by an EU spouse.
Not really. The EU spouse has a right to live there, just needing to do residency, and the process for the non-EU spouse is made easier because if it wasn’t then it would be an infringement of the two EU laws of the EU citizens freedom of movement and their family life.

Shnozz said:
I don’t think the 3 month thing is really enforced, but if the EU party is travelling with a non-EU and the latter using the former as a workaround the 90 day rule, I can see greater scrutiny of the EU travellers conduct.

Seems quite risky to me.
It isn’t a ‘workaround’ but the law.

And at the moment I would agree there is little or no scrutiny, and I think that once EES/ETIAS is turned on the people at risk won’t be those with EU spouses but non-EU citizens who have simply been overstaying.
I think we are talking at cross purposes but CBA to try and win the internet. I’ve researched the issue in depth also as I have a vested interest. I’ll leave it as agreeing insofar as it makes residency applications easier and essentially pre-brexit if married to an EU passport holder, but only assists the 90 day rule if travelling country to country or if the EU spouse registers for residency. Without the non-EU spouse in tow, the 3 month registration is something few would worry about with the rights bestowed on them as EU members.

PF62

3,671 posts

174 months

Wednesday 21st February
quotequote all
Shnozz said:
I think we are talking at cross purposes but CBA to try and win the internet. I’ve researched the issue in depth also as I have a vested interest. I’ll leave it as agreeing insofar as it makes residency applications easier and essentially pre-brexit if married to an EU passport holder, but only assists the 90 day rule if travelling country to country or if the EU spouse registers for residency. Without the non-EU spouse in tow, the 3 month registration is something few would worry about with the rights bestowed on them as EU members.
I think we must be as I am not sure what you are talking about.

cptsideways

13,553 posts

253 months

Wednesday 21st February
quotequote all
Never knew this was the case, I shall be supplying for my Irish passport shortly. Currently engaged but other half is British Passport only. That news could well change our future plans.

weeve

179 posts

17 months

Thursday 22nd February
quotequote all
JQ said:
One of my sons is God’s Spear Bear and my BiL is Snow Bear. biggrin
When he's wandering around the house moaning or whining I call him Thunder Baby.

Wait ... how did we get here from the thread title?
As you were.
I told the wife last night that I thought Id discovered I could now travel all around Europe with them for as long as we (I say we, I mean I) wanted.
She was truly overjoyed I tell you. And then kindly asked that I make myself useful and take the bins out and help the kids with their homework instead of pouncing around on the tinternet.
The dream didnt last long. Virtual campervan cancelled.

Edited by weeve on Thursday 22 February 07:29

RC1807

12,556 posts

169 months

Thursday 22nd February
quotequote all
I presume these long waits for Irish nationality and passports are due to applications being made from the UK / UK residents?


Steviesam

Original Poster:

1,244 posts

135 months

Thursday 22nd February
quotequote all
RC1807 said:
I presume these long waits for Irish nationality and passports are due to applications being made from the UK / UK residents?
I think the long waits are for people applying with more didtant Irish residents eg Grandparents, which means moire paperwork.

AIUI, my wifes application should take around 20 days (plus posting docs etc), as it was her father who was born in Ireland.

PF62

3,671 posts

174 months

Thursday 22nd February
quotequote all
RC1807 said:
I presume these long waits for Irish nationality and passports are due to applications being made from the UK / UK residents?
The long waits were to be entered onto the ‘Foreign Born Register’ which is the process for those seeking Irish citizenship from a grandparent have to do before applying for a passport.

The queue for passports was never that long, although it got longer during COVID, and prior to 2016 the FBR queue was never that long because why would anyone particularly want Irish citizenship.

Then along comes Brexit which massively inflated the queue, and just as it hit the peak along comes COVID when the FBR office was closed and those staff were directed onto other activities.

And one thing Brexit did was publicise the FBR route to EU citizenship to people other than the British, so for example there are lots of Americans applying through their grandparents being born there - all of which adds to the queue and the complexity of validating the citizenship applications.

When the FBR process did restart the queue was two years long between application and approval, but still once approved the passport queue was quite short.

But to give credit to the Irish government the FBR queue dropped rapidly and my application which was put in during COVID only took a year, which given that it is a country giving me citizenship from a few pieces of paper isn’t bad, and then the passport application only took a couple of months.


croyde

23,000 posts

231 months

Thursday 22nd February
quotequote all
You must have applied around the same time as me.

Passport would have been really quick but delayed thanks to UK postal strikes frown

Dublin didn't want to send my passport to me until the strikes were over.

Also the passport application took nearly 3 weeks to get to Dublin, despite expensive tracked, signed for post due to a problem with sending anything abroad from the UK.

Another Brexit thing. Ironic huh hehe

gotoPzero

17,300 posts

190 months

Thursday 22nd February
quotequote all
When my mrs applied for hers it as back within a month.

Both parents are Irish though.

Mont Blanc

639 posts

44 months

Thursday 22nd February
quotequote all
This thread is hugely interesting. Thanks to the contributors so far.

I wonder if someone could help me with the below queries, explaining them in extremely plain English, or perhaps using crayons to draw me a simple answer, because this stuff seems very complex.

I am British with British Passport. My wife is EU born with EU passport and also British citizenship and British passport. Married since 2016. Live in UK. Our young son has both EU and British citizenship and passports.

My queries are:

1) Can the 90 days in 180 day period be explained in a simplified fashion please? What does this mean for me as the husband of an EU citizen with an EU child? How does my situation differ from other British travellers to the EU with no EU spouse?

2) Can I legitimately walk down the 'EU' passport queue when travelling to the EU with my wife and child?

3) Do I have any other 'EU' advantages due to my marriage situation that I may not be aware of?

Ideally I would like to eventually obtain EU country residency or citizenship, but I appreciate this may be very complex and difficult, and is certainly something that won't be happening anytime soon. For now, if there are any benefits, however minor, I might as well use them.

Thank you in advance.

PF62

3,671 posts

174 months

Thursday 22nd February
quotequote all
gotoPzero said:
When my mrs applied for hers it as back within a month.

Both parents are Irish though.
So she was Irish from the start, even though she didn't realise it.

The delays are those who are not Irish because they don't have Irish parents, but want to claim Irish citizenship through a grandparent, and that involves the application to the Foreign Born Register and the lengthy wait to get your certificate that you are now Irish. Once you get that then getting a passport is as quick as those who were Irish to start with.

YorkshireStu

4,417 posts

201 months

Thursday 22nd February
quotequote all
I have a British Passport and Portuguese Citizenship; really easy to get albeit I did get Residency before Brexit. All I did was fill a form in and pay €15.

I also have South African Citizenship which hasn’t offered any value since I left living there until this year when I booked a luxury Safari for next month and got local Citizen discounts applied. Something to do with Covid where they needed to get locals into the 5* lodges that typically target £ and $ customers. The scheme is still ongoing. So….hot tip for any Saffas thinking of visiting home.

My Partner has dual Slovakian/Italian passports and UK residency so we’re covered because we plan to divide our time to living in 3 countries.

gotoPzero

17,300 posts

190 months

Thursday 22nd February
quotequote all
PF62 said:
gotoPzero said:
When my mrs applied for hers it as back within a month.

Both parents are Irish though.
So she was Irish from the start, even though she didn't realise it.
Yes, those 40+ years of Sunday mass, wakes, holy communions, Paddy's days, a constant thirst for alcohol and potatoes, severe sunburn, weddings with 800 people on deck, the long nights at Irish clubs watching dancing, the entire family having unpronounceable names, every person you know being an O' something , .... then one day.... she woke up and said I have something to tell you .. I tink dat I moigt be Iorish.

I just shook my head and told her its ok, it was all just a bad dream and to go back to sleep smilesmilesmile

Seriously though, she is the kind of Irish that Irish people make memes about.



PF62

3,671 posts

174 months

Thursday 22nd February
quotequote all
Mont Blanc said:
I wonder if someone could help me with the below queries, explaining them in extremely plain English, or perhaps using crayons to draw me a simple answer, because this stuff seems very complex.

I am British with British Passport. My wife is EU born with EU passport and also British citizenship and British passport. Married since 2016. Live in UK. Our young son has both EU and British citizenship and passports.

My queries are:

1) Can the 90 days in 180 day period be explained in a simplified fashion please?
For a British citizen now the UK is no longer a member of the EU then visiting the Schengen area now means they cannot spend more than 90 days in a rolling 180 days unless they apply for a visa to stay longer.

The killer isn't the 90 days, but the rolling 180 days. So for example, you can't go to Spain for 90 days then pop back to the UK for one day then go back to Spain again for another 90 days, because your 90 day allocation has been used and you can't return until the first of those 90 days has fallen off the rolling 180 days which it will in another three months time. So go to Spain for November, December, and January, and then you cannot go anywhere in the Schengen area until May.

For most people this makes little difference, but for those with second homes in France or want to spend the whole winter in Spain or Portugal it makes things difficult.

Mont Blanc said:
What does this mean for me as the husband of an EU citizen with an EU child? How does my situation differ from other British travellers to the EU with no EU spouse?
It means that whenever you travel with your wife in the Schengen area that none of that time counts against *your* 90 day allowance - your wife has no allowance because she has no limit to the amount of time she can spend there, subject to the requirement to register for residency if she spends more than a continuous three months in one country.

That means if you wanted to spend November, December, and January in Portugal and then February and March in Span with your wife then you could, something that someone British without an EU spouse could not do.

Mont Blanc said:
2) Can I legitimately walk down the 'EU' passport queue when travelling to the EU with my wife and child?
Yes. You can't when you are travelling on your own, but with either your wife or your child you can.

Mont Blanc said:
3) Do I have any other 'EU' advantages due to my marriage situation that I may not be aware of?
Not really. A minor advantage is that when ETIAS is introduced then as a spouse of an EU citizen you won't have to pay the €7 fee, but other than that, not a lot.

Mont Blanc said:
Ideally I would like to eventually obtain EU country residency or citizenship, but I appreciate this may be very complex and difficult, and is certainly something that won't be happening anytime soon. For now, if there are any benefits, however minor, I might as well use them.
Obtaining residency as a family member of an EU citizen should be easier and cheaper than if you were not in order for the EU to comply with its rules on freedom of movement and the respect for family and private life - if they made it difficult then they are not respecting your wife's right to the freedom of movement within the EU and are not respecting your wife's family and private life.

In summary being the spouse of an EU citizen means -

1. No longer having to queue in the long 'you Britishers, over there' queue
2. Not having to concern yourself with the length of time you spend as a couple in the EU, so long winter holidays in retirement
3. Easier residency if you chose to move there permenantly

For your child, they obviously have those freedom of movement rights now, and when in the future they marry their spouse will have the rights that you have, and if those rights are important then they might want to investigate whether that citizenship can be inherited by any children they have.

Mont Blanc

639 posts

44 months

Thursday 22nd February
quotequote all
PF62 said:
Mont Blanc said:
I wonder if someone could help me with the below queries, explaining them in extremely plain English, or perhaps using crayons to draw me a simple answer, because this stuff seems very complex.

I am British with British Passport. My wife is EU born with EU passport and also British citizenship and British passport. Married since 2016. Live in UK. Our young son has both EU and British citizenship and passports.

My queries are:

1) Can the 90 days in 180 day period be explained in a simplified fashion please?
For a British citizen now the UK is no longer a member of the EU then visiting the Schengen area now means they cannot spend more than 90 days in a rolling 180 days unless they apply for a visa to stay longer.

The killer isn't the 90 days, but the rolling 180 days. So for example, you can't go to Spain for 90 days then pop back to the UK for one day then go back to Spain again for another 90 days, because your 90 day allocation has been used and you can't return until the first of those 90 days has fallen off the rolling 180 days which it will in another three months time. So go to Spain for November, December, and January, and then you cannot go anywhere in the Schengen area until May.

For most people this makes little difference, but for those with second homes in France or want to spend the whole winter in Spain or Portugal it makes things difficult.

Mont Blanc said:
What does this mean for me as the husband of an EU citizen with an EU child? How does my situation differ from other British travellers to the EU with no EU spouse?
It means that whenever you travel with your wife in the Schengen area that none of that time counts against *your* 90 day allowance - your wife has no allowance because she has no limit to the amount of time she can spend there, subject to the requirement to register for residency if she spends more than a continuous three months in one country.

That means if you wanted to spend November, December, and January in Portugal and then February and March in Span with your wife then you could, something that someone British without an EU spouse could not do.

Mont Blanc said:
2) Can I legitimately walk down the 'EU' passport queue when travelling to the EU with my wife and child?
Yes. You can't when you are travelling on your own, but with either your wife or your child you can.

Mont Blanc said:
3) Do I have any other 'EU' advantages due to my marriage situation that I may not be aware of?
Not really. A minor advantage is that when ETIAS is introduced then as a spouse of an EU citizen you won't have to pay the €7 fee, but other than that, not a lot.

Mont Blanc said:
Ideally I would like to eventually obtain EU country residency or citizenship, but I appreciate this may be very complex and difficult, and is certainly something that won't be happening anytime soon. For now, if there are any benefits, however minor, I might as well use them.
Obtaining residency as a family member of an EU citizen should be easier and cheaper than if you were not in order for the EU to comply with its rules on freedom of movement and the respect for family and private life - if they made it difficult then they are not respecting your wife's right to the freedom of movement within the EU and are not respecting your wife's family and private life.

In summary being the spouse of an EU citizen means -

1. No longer having to queue in the long 'you Britishers, over there' queue
2. Not having to concern yourself with the length of time you spend as a couple in the EU, so long winter holidays in retirement
3. Easier residency if you chose to move there permenantly

For your child, they obviously have those freedom of movement rights now, and when in the future they marry their spouse will have the rights that you have, and if those rights are important then they might want to investigate whether that citizenship can be inherited by any children they have.
That was enormously helpful, and I now fully understand all the points being made. Thank you for your time.

Yes, my son thankfully still has all the advantages and privileges that were taken away from the vast majority of British citizens, and I hope he can take maximum advantage of it if he wishes to do.

PF62

3,671 posts

174 months

Thursday 22nd February
quotequote all
To add the chapter and verse on being able to go into the EU passport queue with your EU spouse, it is set out in EU Regulation 2016/399 -

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTM...

The relevant parts quoted with my bolding -

(16) In order to reduce the waiting times of persons enjoying the Union right of free movement, separate lanes, indicated by uniform signs in all Member States, should, where circumstances allow, be provided at border crossing points. Separate lanes should be provided in international airports. Where it is deemed appropriate and if local circumstances so allow, Member States should consider installing separate lanes at sea and land border crossing points.

Art 2 Definitions

5. ‘persons enjoying the right of free movement under Union law’ means:
(a) Union citizens within the meaning of Article 20(1) TFEU, and third-country nationals who are members of the family of a Union citizen exercising his or her right to free movement to whom Directive 2004/38/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council (21) applies;